Tenacity, Stats, Artifacts , PvP Gear & Enchantments Discussion

jazzfong · February 2014

The tenacity stuff is posted in the news session, which means it will be introduced in 2 weeks or at most one month more. What is your idea about Clerics pvp gear and enchant?

For those who didn't log into preview, we got 4 types of new pvp gear set, along with old T1 War Prophet and GG T2 Prophet Champion set. What is their stat allocation?

Virtuous: No power.
-Good i like this, as we has lower heals in pvp, a 1k-2k power isn't too significant and it is ok to sacrifice it for constant crit chance and high recharge + AP gain, dont forget our feats that require crits!!

Righteous: No recovery.
-Recovery artifacts are easy obtainable, and silvers are the cheapest enchant (30k-40k), preferably for dps clerics

Profound Faithful: No crit, but is the only set that have HP as main stat.
-I love this one, will take these whole set asap. As we know HP is the hardest stat to stack as a DC, and whats now? It even appear on our Armors and Weapons!!! But 46 days needed to get full set, not to mention the high glory needed...

Best set for Clerics...

New GG pvp set: No crit, Life steal
-No comment. Garbage.

Normal Enchantments:
-Currently on live, the prices of enchant is silver< azure < dark < radiant. This may also factor in when picking the set you use.

Special Battle Enchantments:
-Tenes.
Nerfed by defense and deflect. If you have really high HP and some Arp then you may try it.

-Tranquil.
Really useless enchant. Reason: High ICD low proc chance and we got righteousness, shadowtouched and healing depression, use it to refine pls.

Weapon Enchantment:
The best one that suit DC playstyle most is Plaguefires and Flamings. Reason: Quick dots synergy with Astral seals for more Burning Guidance. Flaming is easy to get via T1 DD farm.
Second goes to Vorpal. Your allies wont resist your crit with tenacity so if you play hide and seek and heal from behind/top, Healing Depression is nothing for you.
Those who use Holy Avenger can keep it, it is not too good and not worse either

Armor Enchantment:
In preview Soulforged is doing nothing for me so i sold it now for 195k AD.
Elven Battle: #1. Best one to avoid death by annoying CW and HR roots. DC with healing step will still die if they failed to dodge because of they are rooted. Your high wisdom and tenacity will help to resist knocks and prone, which EB cannot resist. Prone length is also reduced post patch.
Barkshield: #2. Hide and seek clerics better use this. Hide and wait encounters cd and barkshield charged up.
Briatwine: #3. Synergy with Astral Seal for more little heals and plenty Burning Guidance.
ThunderHead: #4. Stun is good but more cc resist in pre-M3 due to tenacity so not so good anymore.

Artifact:
Bloodraven Skull: NERFEEEEDDDDD!!!! Like cast a Divine Armor on self in live, even mine is a epic one still do nothing...
Water: Cleanse away Healing Depression and effectively heal you back.
Lanturn: Good one to switch to.
Eye: Never use it in pvp, useless.
Emblem: It receive a moderate nerf but still viable in pvp. More attack to activate means more hits to restore HP.

I posted my knowledge on clerics and pvp. How about you???

zargorius666 · February 2014

Well, I just finished my High Prophet set which I find very good but in PVP it will suck due to the Tenacity thing. I blew all my glory on the skull artifact as War Prophet set = ****e. Due to not having a PvP set with tenacity, healing depression affecting my heals, artifacts and soul forged and the Righteousness I think my cleric won't be doing any PvP for now.
I see no point as chance of performing well for the team and gaining any glory in order to buy the PvP set are very slim. Funny because my cleric was meant to be viable in PVP and had some nice fun while levelling.

I will still be keeping Soulforged and Bloodcrystal as they are very good get-out-of-jail card in PVE.

adinosii · February 2014

regarding artifacts, I kind-of like the new one (which will be introduced this week) - the Thayan Book of the Dead - the bonuses look good, and the rooting ability might be pretty useful in PvP.

jazzfong · February 2014

adinosii wrote: »

regarding artifacts, I kind-of like the new one (which will be introduced this week) - the Thayan Book of the Dead - the bonuses look good, and the rooting ability might be pretty useful in PvP.

Which means at least 1 mil AD spent for keys to get a chance to win.... I also want that too... I need crit to compensate my Profound Faithful set...

pingconchere · February 2014

jazzfong wrote: »

Special Battle Enchantments:
-Tenes.
Nerfed by defense and deflect. If you have really high HP and some Arp then you may try it.

This brings up a question I've had for a while. I searched the forums for an answer, but I didn't find one, so I apologize if this was already answered somewhere else. Is Tenebrous damage reduced by Tenacity? Based on the description of Tenacity, I wouldn't think it is, but I'm not sure, as I don't have Tenebrous enchants to test on the preview.

jazzfong · February 2014

pingconchere wrote: »

This brings up a question I've had for a while. I searched the forums for an answer, but I didn't find one, so I apologize if this was already answered somewhere else. Is Tenebrous damage reduced by Tenacity? Based on the description of Tenacity, I wouldn't think it is, but I'm not sure, as I don't have Tenebrous enchants to test on the preview.

Yes it is affected. As tenacity increases our DR too.

silverkelt · February 2014

Explain to me the cost if you would of the sets and how you get them, Ive done a couple hundred matches in domination now, but have barely done anything in GG, as every time I go in there they are doing stuff like gathering elements or something .. I guess I will have to venture forth into that now if I want to continue.

I might just give it all up, just round off my DC some more to be able to run some of the t2s and t2.5s I havnt done yet and call it good.

This nerf makes little sense to me, moving a middle of the pack pvp class to the lowest, my only thought is it allows the bajillions of HRS to kill someone easily now.

Also most mmos dont require pvp sets, its usually there as a way to earn a armour without pve'ing, to placate those who just want to pvp. Its also usually a tick worse then the best of the pve raid sets, but viable enough I guess.

Oh well.. Such is Life.

hidahayabusa · February 2014

Could you please write the stats of the new set? Does it have Defense and Tenacity?

What about accessories? Are they on-par with the set or they have different stat distribution?

jazzfong · February 2014

hidahayabusa wrote: »

Could you please write the stats of the new set? Does it have Defense and Tenacity?

What about accessories? Are they on-par with the set or they have different stat distribution?

All pvp set have tenacity. For accessory we got 6 pieces with different stat allocation to pick with. Neck have offense slot while belt has defense slot. The problem is the T2 and T2.5 ring with crit, arp and lifesteal has defense slot while the others have offense slot despite their stat is hp, defense and deflect. The only exception is T1 ring which use defense, deflect and recovery stat has defense slot. I doubt there is some change for enchantment slot when it is on live.

raist718 · February 2014

Testing the new patch has not gone well for many oldschool template DC. In its current form its pretty much a punch in the stomach. The only DCs right now that is competitive in PvP on test is a buff focused DC that uses tenacity for survival crutch. There really is no other choice. Its terrible that those who PvP will be forced into one play style and build because of changes. Its normal for players who have geared and played one way to get angry with changes, but its a whole other thing to force changes that make most builds useless. Not one to say the sky is falling, but here is some other quotes from testers.

silverkelt wrote: »

:mad:As a High Prophet, Plaguefire DC, that tried to work in tandem with targets, this is awful, just terrible news for the DC class, my goal was to target anyone and hit 3 times, while trying to survive and heal as much as possible, normally I would be insta-cc'd to death most of the time as it is.

WE are talking about 90% less incoming heals, MAYBE 5-10% of all DCs were set up to be unkillable, the vast majority of us do both PVE and PVP and this is just a awful nerf to us individually, as it was we were nothing but middle of the pack 4-5th on the class charts on normal pugs, this moves us to deadlast with all except those set up for pure PVP to be able to really do anything. Even if this healing depression goes to 30%, DCs would be at 70%!

HATE these changes, I think DCs should have a petition thread, this is way overly harsh on the class as a general nerf. Other classes are affected much less then the normal DC is going to be. If they are going to keep these nerfs, they should at least remove righteousness from the class, this at least puts us on par with the other classes, not nerfhammer us into the ground.

Did anyone at cryptic even think about this! What exactly was wrong with the way matches handled now? I never felt overpowered thats for sure!

rasceal wrote: »

Healing Depression and regen: I think part of the reason healing depression especially regen is reduced 50% is to prevent the prior unkillable GWF Sentinal and Regen DC situation that is present now. If you only reduce the regen = Tenacity DR then it doesn't change anything. Actually it would get even worse since Crit severity and CC is reduced also.

Healing Depression and Lifesteal: Lifesteal perhaps may not need quite as much a nerf as regen. It is true that Tenacity reduces lifesteal on top of the healing depression which is a good point. Lifesteal could be rather useful to some builds but how much reduction it takes to make a build good vs op is something that would require more testing. Not sure how difficult it would be to code one stat different than the others though which may be part of the issue.

Healing Depression and the DC: I can see the complaints on the inability to run a heal based DC within the new system. I know that a buff style DC can be very hard to kill with tenacity but so far its the only build I've seen particularly effective at the moment. A lot of DC players have gotten upset due not having any build options. Perhaps a 2.5 pvp set bonus that sacrifices survivability for a way to boost healing over tenacity.

All in all I agree with the Healing Depression. I think one of the largest issues is that a lot of the old builds don't work under the new system. A lot of people are upset because the builds that they run no longer have the strength they used to. I have found however that there are alternate builds for more than one class that have gained some punch under the new system. Now if we can just make sure there is more than one viable spec for every class.

ayroux wrote: »

As for Healing Depression here is my feedback

As for Healing depression, I really cant stress this enough. I think 50% was WAY too harsh.... Something like a 25-30% nerf would be MORE than enough. Think about it this way....

if people run tenacity they gain about 20% more base DR and crits do 20% less dmg. Even the BEST player has less than 50% crit so lets just say 20% base DR plus 50% *20% less crit dmg = a total of 30% more tanky on AVERAGE.

If players are 30% more tanky, heals should be 30% less effective to equal out....

The other thing to consider as well, when you nerf damage by 30-40% Lifesteal ALREADY is nerfed 30-40% because of the reduction of damage, so there is literally NO need to incorporate that into the depression...

Temp HP? Sure but 50% seems harsh, 30% seems reasonable

Regen? Heck Ya! 50% is a little harsh though... 30% seems more reasonable...

Lifesteal? Doesnt make sense - its getting a DOUBLE nerf... This shouldnt be touched by depression...

Soulforged? Makes no sense, you pop back up with 2k HP to just die? So thanks on this one for adjusting it back!

Potions? I like that its left alone 5k heal every few minutes is nothing

Artifacts? the healing ones were already too strong so sure, I think the nerf here would help open more choices in pvp.

DC heals? Like mentioned above, maybe 30% reduction to be inline with the 30% tankiness from tenacity. 50% a DC (the HEALER) cant even really heal anyone in pvp... Most of the DCs I know LOVE playing it because they want to heal people, you just removed that attractive aspect to the game.
..

diogene0 wrote: »

Now about the pvp sets:

I have been able to see the cleric ones. One look great, the rest looks meh. While I understand there's a stat budget and that you don't want to make the ultimate pvp set with the best possible stats in one set, currently, most sets aren't attractive. IMO a good design choice would be to make all of them relevant choices. No power on a cleric set? come on, this is our primary stat.

So, here are the sets I don't like and why:
- Grim virtuous (cleric): No power. Power kinda matters for mundane stuff like heals and some damage. Might be worth it if the 4 set bonus was a small debuff (we don't need power to debuff after all) or a tanking bonus, but here, it's just completely pointless. It's supposed to be the tanky set with no damage or healing focus but the set bonus is mostly about healing...
- Grim prophet champion (cleric): well, that good old gauntlgrym set with a new tenacity stat. I'm still not convinced by lifesteal, sharing it via linked spirit migjht be interesting, but i'd trade this for anything else. Arpen would be nice, there's no "dps" cleric pvp set.
- Profound armour of the virtuous: again, no power but a healing 4 pc bonus. Like, we want you to heal better but with this set you can't...

For a cleric, currently at T2 level, grim righteous is a no brainer. With some recovery jewelry and a + recovery set bonus, there's no downside to this set, we can get perfectly balanced stats for pvp. There's power, crit and a defensive stats. What else would we ever need? This one + grim necklace of defiance and grim belt of defiance will provide the best synergy - just because jewelry with power has arpen and lifesteal, and it's pointless at such ridiculously low levels for clerics in pvp (no set with arpen so the pvp battle cleric isn't an option).

On the cleric T2.5 side, there are two options (finally!). Righteous is completely valid, clearly offensive/healbot oriented (), and Faithful is an option, because there's power and even if the crit stat is great for healing, trading it for HP is a completely valid choice. Unfortunately, the profound virtuous isn't an option at all, it's just plainly bad, because crit without power isn't worth it, and +7.5% more healing without power just doesn't make sense. Repurpose souls is nice... in pve. In pvp there's no way it works with only 5 targets at most and team members constantly moving far away from this feat's radius, so this set is just vendor trash currently IMO.

On the bright side, I find the CW set more balanced, all of them have nice offensive stats, and all of them can be a relevant choice. Good job on these ones!

Last, but not least, I'm really concerned about the future of gauntlgrym. This is supposed to be a pvp event, and there are no pvp rewards... The sets are unchanged (why?), and we may turn grim coins into petty amounts of glory. 50 glory for one coin is kinda cheapskate for a 1h30 long event. 7 from pvp, maybe 20 from pve, that makes 1350 glory... That's low, and makes the event not profitable at all, even though the pvp part is great. I just hope you've something in store for gauntlgrym, like a couple of unique artifacts for grim coins, or different pvp sets with new unique bonuses, or, why not, let's dream a bit, a T3 dungeon dropping T3 pvp sets, because currently, on preview, if it's released as is, gauntlgrym will soon become a ghost town.

vikingbrad · February 2014

So it looks like you can trade existing PvP armor for the new sets.

Any thoughts on best strategy?

Thinking of buying up a current PvP set and swap for a new one on release

I only have High Prophet but have some Glory saved (9k) and plenty of AD

jazzfong · February 2014

What i think now is not buying a new set, but saving AD for new beetle mount and R7 radiants (def) & azures (off). And now i am building my character to overcome healing depression healing debuff. Saw the 5/7.5% healing bonus from new set? If i stack to 50% healing bonus then my heals wont be affected by HD debuff, and if i got no HD debuff in combat (which means i am hiding behind or on top, not getting hitted), i do 150% heals!!

Feated Healer's Lore, Enduring Relief, Feated Exaltation, Moontouched etc will make me even a better healer with perfect life saving ability, with one condition, there are no snipers (cw hr) that particularly aimed at you and your tank is tanky enough as he takes the damage you suppose to take when defending a node. Any idea??

vikingbrad · February 2014

jazzfong wrote: »

What i think now is not buying a new set, but saving AD for new beetle mount and R7 radiants (def) & azures (off). And now i am building my character to overcome healing depression healing debuff. Saw the 5/7.5% healing bonus from new set? If i stack to 50% healing bonus then my heals wont be affected by HD debuff, and if i got no HD debuff in combat (which means i am hiding behind or on top, not getting hitted), i do 150% heals!!

Feated Healer's Lore, Enduring Relief, Feated Exaltation, Moontouched etc will make me even a better healer with perfect life saving ability, with one condition, there are no snipers (cw hr) that particularly aimed at you and your tank is tanky enough as he takes the damage you suppose to take when defending a node. Any idea??

I've bought a prophet champion set ready to exchange for grim righteous. Around 200k AD for full set. Also got symbol & icon as they add Tenacity.

Problem is having 1 set for PvE and another for PvP increases cost of getting gems/enchantments to fill all those slots. Don't want to fool around with unslotting/reslotting everytime change armor.

Have tried on preview and getting 18.5% DR from tenacity with new set. Not sure if will contiue with PvP but buying current set before change over and then exchanging sounds like the best idea.

edit Goes up to 20.5% DR with Symbol & Icon equipped

jazzfong · February 2014

I wonder is power so important till we can give up recovery for 100-200 more heals? Virtuous set not good?? Slight weak healing but decent crit and fast cd.

Tenacity, Stats, Artifacts , PvP Gear & Enchantments Discussion

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