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Forums > Home› PvE Discussion

Negation Enchantment, any good?

thestaggythestaggy Member Posts: 1,102 Bounty Hunter
edited February 2014 in PvE Discussion
Hi folks.

As the title suggests, is a Negation armour enchantment any good? I know Soulforged is ''/thread'' when it comes to discussions about armour enchants and my character is currently wearing a Soulforged, but I saw another player with a Negation and now I want it because I like the way it looks and it will fit in with how I'd like my character to look. However, I don't want to wear something because I like the way it looks if it offers little to no benefit.

If it helps, it is for my GF who is currently sitting at 44.5% DR and 20% Deflection. The way I understand it as I am a tank, I should be getting hit enough to proc the DR boost and it should tie in well with the fact that I am a softish DPS-hybrid.
PSA: You don't need to grind Spinward Rise for your Elemental artifact main hand if you have some AD lying around. You can craft it via the Tyranny of Dragon's campaign screen.
Post edited by thestaggy on

Comments

  • sslothzzsslothzz Member Posts: 224 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    negation is better that soulforged for gf. tank is supposed to keep party safe, and if everybody wipes - tank naturally dies last. no profit from soulforged. negation, on the contrary, procs all the time during the battle, keeping you alive.

    i wonder why this is not in the gf class forum.
  • helloz2helloz2 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 205 Bounty Hunter
    edited February 2014
    I like the look of it as well (how it complements Vorpal so perfectly), but having used Perfect Negation and currently using Lesser Soulforged, i feel that Soulforged's alot better currently.

    Still unsure if the DR buff from Negation is additive or the % of your current DR though. (never tested it)

    Regardless of which it is, it's still not going to be really effective. In PvE the adds tend to get controlled so much that even if the buff procs, you won't get attacked that much. In PvP it's just not that great compared to other options.

    The only time you get to see the glow that often is in non-combat areas, so it's better not to go for Negation at the moment.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • rlrobrrlrobr Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    sslothzz wrote: »
    negation is better that soulforged for gf. tank is supposed to keep party safe, and if everybody wipes - tank naturally dies last. no profit from soulforged. negation, on the contrary, procs all the time during the battle, keeping you alive.

    i wonder why this is not in the gf class forum.

    You are totally wrong:

    - Negation procs at most once every 60s
    - It has a small change (10% for a normal, 15% for a greater) of procing every time you receive damage. Most likely it will not proc when you receive the death blow or it will proc *after* you died.
    - Damage resistance increase for a GF helps very little, since he already has a large DR
    - I can't express how useful Soulforged is for all classes, including GF. Even the most resistant tank can eventually die (I've seen many dying when kiting adds on FH, which is not hard at all). If a tank dies it is very hard for people to revive him because all the enemies will be around him - Soulforge offers a free revive

    If you are still not convinced, ask yourself why Negation is the least expensive shard of all (excluding, perhaps, the free ones like Terror) and Soulforged is the 2nd most expensive, only after Vorpal.
  • sslothzzsslothzz Member Posts: 224 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    rlrobr wrote: »
    You are totally wrong:

    - Negation procs at most once every 60s
    - It has a small change (10% for a normal, 15% for a greater) of procing every time you receive damage. Most likely it will not proc when you receive the death blow or it will proc *after* you died.
    - Damage resistance increase for a GF helps very little, since he already has a large DR
    - I can't express how useful Soulforged is for all classes, including GF. Even the most resistant tank can eventually die (I've seen many dying when kiting adds on FH, which is not hard at all). If a tank dies it is very hard for people to revive him because all the enemies will be around him - Soulforge offers a free revive

    If you are still not convinced, ask yourself why Negation is the least expensive shard of all (excluding, perhaps, the free ones like Terror) and Soulforged is the 2nd most expensive, only after Vorpal.
    imho if a tank dies before his party - something went terribly wrong, and ppl need to reorganize and discuss tactics. thus negation is better as i see it.

    btw, on my gf i used thunderhead enchantment for threat generation. liked it much. could be a tricky thing to survive tho if cw fails on his control role.
    havent been playing gf for long time now, so maybe the situation has changed. i am waiting for gf class fix to start playing it again, and even then i will prefer something that gives me debuff or mitigation. but in the end it's all matter of personal choice - what is more convenient to the player.
  • bioshrikebioshrike Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 4,729 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    All of the "once per 60 seconds" armor enchantments are nearly useless, IMO. You don't get to choose when to trigger their effect, so it can't be relied upon, and the long cooldown means that if it goes off at an inopportune time, you have to wait before you can get the effect again. Ones like briartwine, barkshield, or soulforged, can be relied upon to benefit you when you need them.

    The ones that provide an effect once a minute should have the cooldown slashed drastically - like once per 10 or 20 seconds. Alternatively, they could place an icon on your bar, which you can trigger when YOU want to, and then have it placd onto a 60 second cooldown...
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  • destinyknightdestinyknight Member Posts: 962 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    I think once every 10 seconds is pushing it but once every 20-30 seconds seems reasonable.

    I think all those enchants that proc once every minute too needs those reduced. It makes them seem really underwhelming, and not to mention alot of thier effects arent all that great either.
  • bioshrikebioshrike Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 4,729 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    destinyknight wrote: »
    I think once every 10 seconds is pushing it but once every 20-30 seconds seems reasonable.

    I think all those enchants that proc once every minute too needs those reduced. It makes them seem really underwhelming, and not to mention alot of thier effects arent all that great either.

    Not only that, but the enchantments need to list the amount of damage and duration of any other effects it may have. The description for barkshield lists how much each stack provides and how long it takes to regain a stack... others should list their numeric values...
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  • kolbe11kolbe11 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    For my GF I use:

    Greater Negation...... - PVP because it does help during those huge burst attacks
    Greater Thunderhead - PVE because when it procs, every mob wants a piece of you (threat generation)
    Briartwine............... - Easy Epic Dungeons because the amount given, while small, stacks nicely

    I don't use Soulforge because it is fugly and overrated imo. For non-60 enchants, I'd say Elven Battle Enchantment would offer far more survivability abilities overall than Negation though as EBE reduces your "downtime" and thus increase your "uptime". I'm just committed to what I have because I have it. Though I do LOVE visuals/effects/abilities of Thunderhead.
    "It is said that idle hands are the Devil's tools: Idle geek hands, however, came up with gunpowder, nuclear weapons, and toilet plungers." -Illiad
  • ladysylvialadysylvia Member Posts: 946 Bounty Hunter
    edited February 2014
    kolbe11 wrote: »
    For my GF I use:

    Greater Negation...... - PVP because it does help during those huge burst attacks
    Greater Thunderhead - PVE because when it procs, every mob wants a piece of you (threat generation)
    Briartwine............... - Easy Epic Dungeons because the amount given, while small, stacks nicely

    I don't use Soulforge because it is fugly and overrated imo. For non-60 enchants, I'd say Elven Battle Enchantment would offer far more survivability abilities overall than Negation though as EBE reduces your "downtime" and thus increase your "uptime". I'm just committed to what I have because I have it. Though I do LOVE visuals/effects/abilities of Thunderhead.

    Elvan Battle is the worst enchantment you can use. At least for GWF/GF. It have to few resistance cc to make it good. Slow? How many enemies slow down? Very few. GWF unstoppable/Sprint cancel it easy. GF use LS/TR. Immobilize? Same! The usefulness is so bad, it's bad to mention it as viable enchantment.
  • kolbe11kolbe11 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    ladysylvia wrote: »
    Elvan Battle is the worst enchantment you can use. At least for GWF/GF. It have to few resistance cc to make it good. Slow? How many enemies slow down? Very few. GWF unstoppable/Sprint cancel it easy. GF use LS/TR. Immobilize? Same! The usefulness is so bad, it's bad to mention it as viable enchantment.

    In terms of "non-60 sec" enchantments, spinning off of biostrikes comment, I'd take it (Elven Battle) over Briartwine. THAT is what I was saying, nothing more. Sheesh.
    "It is said that idle hands are the Devil's tools: Idle geek hands, however, came up with gunpowder, nuclear weapons, and toilet plungers." -Illiad
  • spacebux66spacebux66 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 107 Bounty Hunter
    edited February 2014
    sslothzz wrote: »
    imho if a tank dies before his party - something went terribly wrong

    You couldn't be more wrong. A tank's job is to hold agro, not to be the last to die.

    If a tank dies first, he did his job. His job was to hold agro, keep the mobs attacking him not everyone else. If he goes down first, he did his job. The healing wasn't enough maybe. DPS didn't focus down the right targets maybe. Or maybe he was badly built and didn't have enough mitigation. But a tank who dies last is worthless, and should hang up his shield.

    Seriously. A good tank dies first.
  • ladysylvialadysylvia Member Posts: 946 Bounty Hunter
    edited February 2014
    spacebux66 wrote: »
    You couldn't be more wrong. A tank's job is to hold agro, not to be the last to die.

    If a tank dies first, he did his job. His job was to hold agro, keep the mobs attacking him not everyone else. If he goes down first, he did his job. The healing wasn't enough maybe. DPS didn't focus down the right targets maybe. Or maybe he was badly built and didn't have enough mitigation. But a tank who dies last is worthless, and should hang up his shield.

    Seriously. A good tank dies first.

    How a tank can intercept AoEs? Some persons stay in there like they think tank get the hit for them...
    A few times some/all except tank can die without the tank do something wrong.
  • spacebux66spacebux66 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 107 Bounty Hunter
    edited February 2014
    A good tank turns mobs and AoE attacks away from the party where possible. Of course there is still the chance that others may die by standing in the wrong places or pulling or whatever. But in general a decent tank will keep most of the agro, position bosses so that their attacks do not hit the squishies, and clump ads up nicely to be AoE'd down.

    In any case, a tank who dies last is worthless. What exactly did he do to help the party? Nothing.
  • ladysylvialadysylvia Member Posts: 946 Bounty Hunter
    edited February 2014
    spacebux66 wrote: »
    A good tank turns mobs and AoE attacks away from the party where possible. Of course there is still the chance that others may die by standing in the wrong places or pulling or whatever. But in general a decent tank will keep most of the agro, position bosses so that their attacks do not hit the squishies, and clump ads up nicely to be AoE'd down.

    In any case, a tank who dies last is worthless. What exactly did he do to help the party? Nothing.

    Guy... can you explain me how you turn a circle AoE away from the party? Especially the spawning under your feet(aka shaman ones)?
  • spacebux66spacebux66 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 107 Bounty Hunter
    edited February 2014
    Again, I said, "Where possible." Not every attack can be turned away from the group but most can be. In cases of circle ones that spawn under your feet, standing on the opposite side from the group (so that you are facing back toward them) is about the best you can do. This will also prevent frontal AoEs from hitting them.

    Iit is true that if your squishies insist on being facetanking firestanderscrubs and just stand in every red spot they can find, there is little you can do as a tank to keep them alive.

    But again, a tank's job is to hold agro. Not to die last. You can continue to argue that good tanks go down last, but I will not be listening.
  • notbizzynotbizzy Member Posts: 170 Bounty Hunter
    edited February 2014
    spacebux66 wrote: »
    Again, I said, "Where possible." Not every attack can be turned away from the group but most can be. In cases of circle ones that spawn under your feet, standing on the opposite side from the group (so that you are facing back toward them) is about the best you can do. This will also prevent frontal AoEs from hitting them.

    Iit is true that if your squishies insist on being facetanking firestanderscrubs and just stand in every red spot they can find, there is little you can do as a tank to keep them alive.

    But again, a tank's job is to hold agro. Not to die last. You can continue to argue that good tanks go down last, but I will not be listening.

    Gotta love people that stands in red, dies, and starts blaming the tank.
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  • jaotutjaotut Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 576 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    notbizzy wrote: »
    Gotta love people that stands in red, dies, and starts blaming the tank.

    What? You mean we don't blame the healer for that anymore?
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  • eton3000eton3000 Banned Users Posts: 230 Bounty Hunter
    edited February 2014
    lol.... who needs tanks
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