Optimum gear/set for a DPS GF

alcibaides415bc · January 2014

Looking through the Gear for T1/T2 set bonuses that optimizes DPS for GF, i am a bit confused as to the best set/gear combination for optimum dps. I read that the T1 valiant set actually generates more DPS than the Timeless, but i can't see how a T1 set can actually be better than a T2 set. Does anyone have any data/input concerning what set/gear combination is the best for a DPS GF?

Right now i'm running a KC set with 3/4 pieces of Timeless waiting for completion.

paniere · January 2014

For pve, timeless is a no brainer, no other set can match its personal dps output. You want to cap your arpen to 24% and then go power on every offensive slot in order to maximize your RA bonus. Timeless has the most power gain among sets and also gives a nice 4 piece bonus. If you run with a good group, probably the group's total dps would be higher using kc set.
For pvp I'd still go with timeless or 2/2 +900 arpen if u struggle with that stat. I don't see how that Valiant -25% to the opponent's defense (when it procs) could compensate the loss in power and crit

thestaggy · January 2014

I can't see anything being better than a full Timeless set for personal DPS. Couple it with full Conqueror, the correct jewellery and boons and you can easily cap arpen (2200 - 2400), break the cap on crit when you proc the set feat and have 8k+ power before moving any of your enchants above rank 6.

saved81 · January 2014

You'd better test what you're saying.
The timeless isn't a no brainer, you need to carefully set your stats and you need a greater vorpal or more to make it outdps a valiant.

The valiant is a 25% chance to proc on every hit and lasts 4".

inthefade462 · January 2014

KC no brainer. 100% uptime with just cleave.
in a decent group overall dmg is much higher though gf dmg is lower but who cares. No one invites a gf for dps.

thestaggy · January 2014

Wait. Is the OP asking about group DPS or personal DPS? Pretty sure the KC set boosts the group and not the player while the Timeless does the opposite. KC is a group buff set that excludes the user while Timeless is a user buff set.

If OP is asking for personal DPS the Timeless - when all other gear is slotted/capped correctly - will run rings around any other GF set. The most individually destructive GFs I've personally run with use full Timeless with greater/perfect Vorpal or Lightning enchants. One of them in a 3/4 Castle Never run finished with 22 million damage, second overall and he split two CWs.

j0shi82 · January 2014

After some exchange with saved81 in the preview section, I personally also concluded that the Timeless set has a hard time to beat Valiant. I run 12k Power with 24% ArPen and secondary focus on Crit and for me Timeless adds roughly 5% DPS through the additional Power and Crit. Even if I'd transfer most of my Crit to Recovery to maximize the effect of the 4-piece I can't beat 8% DPS increase. Valiant offers a flat 10%.

That said, because of the buff duration and uptime Timeless still has the slight advantage in solo play in my book given the optimal stat allocation. But you really can't do wrong with Valiant especially considering a cost-benefit equation (full Valiant is only 160k @ AH, Timeless 1M). It also offers more in group play because everybody profits from the debuff.

With a Pvorp the DPS increase could go as high as 13%, which would beat Valiant, but because of lowly Crit% the Vorpal is overall a poor choice for the GF.

facexcontrol · January 2014

Hmm ... theres a catch in Valiant

When u buff your party's dmg you forget that in that way they generate much more thread then u do.
So this puts things on a scale ..because with the wrong build u become uneffective as a GF.

I would keep things simple as they are and get a full Timeless including sword for the power bonus.
Iwould pump my stone with crit and power and i would balance thing out by delivering 20k crits on frontline in MC for example.
So the result is High DPS while Holding Aggro

I got a strictly PvP build but since PvE is piece of candy it cant get more simple then this ^

j0shi82 · January 2014

As a Conq with Battle Trample you shouldn't have any aggro problems whatsoever in my eyes.

facexcontrol · January 2014

j0shi82 wrote: »

As a Conq with Battle Trample you shouldn't have any aggro problems whatsoever in my eyes.

Not only that,
Buffing is really good and works well in most exp parties,
but if u get in a dungeon with random group a majority of the GF's would prefur to get into a cerry role while delivering the 5 digits rather then creeping around with shield up.

As i see from my dungeon experience ( which is quite big ) GF is solo efficient unit. And in the party it has its role as semi-control,semi-dps - FACETANK.

...surely u can do better then just be a buffer thow.

mospeda1 · January 2014

Timeless for DPS , KC for party buff . The End

______________________________________________
Mospeda 22K - CN is my playground

saved81 · January 2014

mospeda1 wrote: »

Timeless for DPS , KC for party buff . The End

Provide some math of what you're saying.

5% more crit and 210 power that can overcome a flat 10% increased dmg... that's why the GF community sux so badly.

kolbe11 · January 2014

saved81 wrote: »

Provide some math of what you're saying.

5% more crit and 210 power that can overcome a flat 10% increased dmg... that's why the GF community sux so badly.

Here's something I wrote a while back that compares the armors flat out:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AoLRo1M6-ypfdGd3d2prMEdoUUZMSFFZRzdIVE1Scnc&usp=sharing

Timeless - Valiant = 520 additional points + 1AC on Timeless

Before we get to the "10%", note that the Valiant gives you +450 Defense while Timeless gives 3 x 450 Crit. We can both agree that Timeless wins at this part of the 4/4 set, no?

As for the "10% damage" you reference, this is not an accurate statement as the % given is relative to the target:

Defense Tooltip : 49.99*Defense/(LevelConstant+Defense)
Damage Resistance % : (0.005*(ArmorClass-10)+0.4999*Defense/(LevelConstant+Defense)*(1+FeatBonus))+AbilityBonus
...where level constant for level 60 is 1643.6.

Therefore, the combined Damage Resistance from AC, Defense and abilities cap at 80% mitigation, with the exception of those abilities that always mitigate 100% of the damage.

A boss like Dwarf King has FAR more defense than say Pirate King and thus the % given by taking away 450 Defense from the target is relative.

Reference: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/pub?key=0Ar5bzJruCOoOdC11aG5nNnRDdE8xaEdhSVhLMHB0Nmc&output=xls

Finally, it comes down to YOUR play style. If Valiant works for you, awesome! I used it, but found Timeless to offer higher numbers in my /combatlog when converted using ACT. But again, that's just me. Perhaps your results warrant using Valiant more than mine, but that's not a decision anyone but you can make.

In the end, the raw numbers still favor Timeless for DPS, but that does not mean that the results will be right for you.

saved81 · January 2014

kolbe11 wrote: »

Here's something I wrote a while back that compares the armors flat out:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AoLRo1M6-ypfdGd3d2prMEdoUUZMSFFZRzdIVE1Scnc&usp=sharing

Timeless - Valiant = 520 additional points + 1AC on Timeless

Before we get to the "10%", note that the Valiant gives you +450 Defense while Timeless gives 3 x 450 Crit. We can both agree that Timeless wins at this part of the 4/4 set, no?

As for the "10% damage" you reference, this is not an accurate statement as the % given is relative to the target:

There's a big mistake in your statement.
The valiant bonus, as said in the other topic and as well known by any CW that uses an HV isn't related by any way to the def/CA of the target.
It's a flat, unmitigated, unbuffed, unmodificable by any stat 10% decreased target mitigation; just test by yourself , hit a dummy (which has 0.000000 def/AC/DMG reduction) with the valiant buff and see the DMG buff.

So we are comparing a
+123 recovery
+246 power (ssuming that only conq GF are interested in such set)
+ 1350 crit

VS
*1.10 DMG multiplier (that is applied AFTER any DMG buff)

About the defensive stats
+ 1AC = 0,5 DMG reduction
+ 142 defense = based on the def stat ~ 0.5-1% DMG reduction
+ 132 deflect = based on the deflection stat ~1% deflection chance = 0.5% DMG reduction

VS
+450 defense = 1,5-2,5% DMG reduction

Even on the the defensive aspect the Valiant is head to head with the Timeless

Now, let's see again the offensive stats:
246 is about a 1.1% DMG in my tests
1350 Crit chance how much crit chance should it give you?
In the best scenario (i.e. 0 base crit) you will get a flat 10,3% crit chance with the full stacks there's no other way to get a better boost in the DPS from the timeless BUT would it be worth?

You'd end with a "decent" 18,3% crit chace +243 power against a 8% crit chace and *1.1 dmg multiplier with the Valiant, in this case the Timeless would probably outdps the Valiant but would it be the highest possible DPS set up?
I've switched rings, jewelry, belt both on me and my stone and I've yet to find a setup that outdps the Valiant on dummies.
Real world is probably different, but I don't expect that it's a revolution.

Some of the ones out there with perfect vorpals (I got a perfect Bronzewood just to let you know and I'm not gonna change it right now that I know that with just one ET I will able to hard mark 8 mobs at once) and perfectly tuned stats can get better results with a Timeless but really "no-brain" choise is another thing, most of the ones that are suggesting a Timeless not even askin' what are the base stats & weapon enchants are just spreading wrong information around.
I'm not even saying that the Valiant is absolutly the best but I'm not even the one that is saying "Timeless for DPS. Blah Blah. The end"...

They are not even considering that the T2 GF' sets, ATM, have the worst set bonuses in the game.
Things are this way also because we (GF's community) never gave enought feedbacks about how sad is the stats allocation & bonuses of our sets.

So, well take care, I'm out of the discussion, enjoy your Timeless, keep goin on this way, things can't get better that this.

alcibaides415bc · January 2014

What i gathered so far from this thread:

1. Timeless set can only be better than Valiant if the GF is properly specced and built for it.

2. Valiant set deals more damage overall due to -450 def debuff, not needed to be fully specced.

So the questions i have are:

1. what is the optimum spec/build for a Timeless set (i assume perfect vorpal is a must)

2. Right now i am planning to make a lightning enchantment on my GF. Does chain lightning proc Valiant debuff, and would a valiant set be better suited in combination with lightning enchant?

fauust01 · January 2014

DOES

GF and CW Defence reduction bonus'es stack ?

is it worth using V~~ set when CW in ur pt have HV ?

kolbe11 · January 2014

alcibaides415bc wrote: »

What i gathered so far from this thread:

1. Timeless set can only be better than Valiant if the GF is properly specced and built for it.
Correct. Both KC for team DPS and Valiant for self-DPS offer good alternatives
2. Valiant set deals more damage overall due to -450 def debuff, not needed to be fully specced.
Correct, but as Fauust states above, other classes can do the same thing and is unknown if stackable
So the questions i have are:

1. what is the optimum spec/build for a Timeless set (i assume perfect vorpal is a must)
For my Timeless, I use:

Ancient Exorcist Necklace

Ancient Berserker Rings x 2

Lethal Berserker Belt (Blue 60 243 Crit/133 ArP)

Fomorian Fabled Longsword/Shield w/ GPF

5 x Azure Enchantment, Rank 8

Ioun Stone w/ Crit/ArP/Recov

This gives my GF a grand total of 3984 Crit with 3 Stacks of timeless and roughly a 32% crit chance. Why don't I use a Vorpal? I had one once, but was not convinced it offered GF's the best DPS, nor could it compete with MOST classes @ end-game. The recent thread HERE kinda helps explain why. I also found GPF to give me the fuzzies about debuffing, give me more Aggro and ultimately, more DPS.

2. Right now i am planning to make a lightning enchantment on my GF. Does chain lightning proc Valiant debuff, and would a valiant set be better suited in combination with lightning enchant?

Yes, Lightening procs Valiant Debuff. Pretty much a sneeze can proc it. Personally, I would only recommend Lightening @ Greater or Perfect for a GF as it just does not chain enough to warrant its use. Flaming and Plague Fire would give you far more DPS as a GF due to the DoT benefits. At greater however, it changes a bit more in favor or Lightening, but not much.

SIDE NOTE: Anyone remember when Valiant Armor was bugged, giving GF 300k Crits? Ah, those were the days lol... Valiant is nice, but the debuff isn't as good during team dungeons as Timeless or KC. Just sayin.

kolbe11 · January 2014

fauust01 wrote: »

DOES

GF and CW Defence reduction bonus'es stack ?

is it worth using V~~ set when CW in ur pt have HV ?

If memory serves me correctly, they do. Anyone wanna run /combatlog w/ ACT and verify it though? I ditched my Valiant a while ago to make room in my Bank.

Side note, if it stacked with GPF or Terror AND HV it may be OP in a way... not sure how those would work though.

blackgirl69 · January 2014

saved81 wrote: »

...most of the ones that are suggesting a Timeless not even askin' what are the base stats & weapon enchants are just spreading wrong information around.
I'm not even saying that the Valiant is absolutly the best but I'm not even the one that is saying "Timeless for DPS. Blah Blah. The end"...

I am interested in what your jewelry, enchants, and weapon enchantments would look like in a 4/4 valiant. Also, I hear you on the p. bronzewood + ET combo.

fauust01 · January 2014

blackgirl69 wrote: »

I am interested in what your jewelry, enchants, and weapon enchantments would look like in a 4/4 valiant. Also, I hear you on the p. bronzewood + ET combo.

I am going 2 try out
4/4 Valiant
Fey Enchant
Thunder in armor
stack as much ARP and power as i can
Timeless Sword / Shield for powah

kinda PVP monster on paper

damanhur89 · February 2014

You read my mind!

mospeda1 wrote: »

timeless for dps , kc for party buff . The end

______________________________________________
mospeda 22k - cn is my playground

fauust01 · February 2014

damanhur89 wrote: »

You read my mind!

Quote Originally Posted by mospeda1 View Post
timeless for dps , kc for party buff . The end

______________________________________________
mospeda 22k - cn is my playground

Okej but what weapon set ?

Timeless sword/shield for mxing power or Fallen dragon/mala ?

Optimum gear/set for a DPS GF

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