Debuff Stacking

tripsofthrymr · January 2014

I understand that Plaguefire from multiple sources does not stack, so that if 2 party members both use Plaguefire there is no incremental benefit.

Is that correct?

Is the same true of Terror enchantments? Do they stack with each other? Do they stack with Plaguefire?

inthefade462 · January 2014

Terror stacks with pf but not with itself

cwforumposter · January 2014

If it stacked it would put the defense of almost anything into the negative. When this happens, it messes up the formula for DR and spits out horribly negative numbers. Like -456% for example. If it stacked like this, everyone would run it and clear dungeons with 1000000 damage ice knifes and one shot almost anything in PvP.

This is why they do not stack

inthefade462 · January 2014

So tired of seeing this nonsense. There is no such thing as negative defense and it has nothing to do with why it doesn't stack.

All debuffs are dmg buffs on mobs. 3xgpf is +9% dmg, perfect terror is 4%. Wicked is 4% per, Student of the sword is 5% per stack, hv is 9% per stack etc etc.

If every pf could stack and you managed to get 3 stacks per player it would be +45% dmg. A single thaum cw can do more than that.

ladysylvia · January 2014

inthefade462 wrote: »

So tired of seeing this nonsense. There is no such thing as negative defense and it has nothing to do with why it doesn't stack.

All debuffs are dmg buffs on mobs. 3xgpf is +9% dmg, perfect terror is 4%. Wicked is 4% per, Student of the sword is 5% per stack, hv is 9% per stack etc etc.

If every pf could stack and you managed to get 3 stacks per player it would be +45% dmg. A single thaum cw can do more than that.

What you say is false. Any defense debuff is -% DR. Not a dmg buff. A dmg buff is Lantern or other really dmg buffs. I tested multiple -% DR on multiple targets. What you say is this case:
x(y)
Tested: 10% Arpen 20% Target Resistance 20% 'Dmg buff':
1000*20*0,9 = 1080
Test show:
1100(1000). So please don't spread false information.

cwforumposter · January 2014

Ok. This guy clearly does not understand how the game math works xD

DR(defense,AC) = (AC -10) * 0.5% + 50% * Defense/(1644+Defense)

Also, if you think that it's a 45% straight DR buff. You have clearly never hit anything while using that enchant.

dodgo · January 2014

im really interested in this but am <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> at maths.

is it like this;

- Mitigation is combined defense and AC?
- Mitigation is also know as Damage resistance (DR)?

HV says it takes 450 defense off mob. What about Mobs AC? What are Mobs/ bosses AC?

pitshade · January 2014

The way I understand it, resistance ignored, from Armor Pen and STR (GWF) or DEX (GF) can reduce the targets defense to zero. Any other form of mitigation/defense reduction can go beyond that and will increase damage taken.

kolatmaster · January 2014

pitshade wrote: »

STR (GWF)

CON for GWFs... I wish it was STR, trust me! lol

inthefade462 · January 2014

cwforumposter wrote: »

Ok. This guy clearly does not understand how the game math works xD

DR(defense,AC) = (AC -10) * 0.5% + 50% * Defense/(1644+Defense)

Also, if you think that it's a 45% straight DR buff. You have clearly never hit anything while using that enchant.

You have no clue what you are talking about.

Congrats you can google the DR formula for level 60 player characters, it has nothing to do with mobs or how debuffs work in this game. What are you even talking about 45% straight DR buff? GPF is 9% boost to dmg with 3 stacks. It's always +9% regardless of how much DR the mob has, because mobs do not have player character DR formulas. They don't even have defense. They have a flat mitigation of 0%, 7%, 15%, 22%, or 24% depending on their rank and type, ie striker, defender, etc.

I said that even if GPF stacked and you had 5 in your party, it would only add +45% if you managed all 5 players maintaining 3 stacks, which is less than what a single cw can do. It was a response to some special person saying something redonkulous about "negative defense and over 9000" etc nonsense. Learn to read please before quoting me and making yourself look like an idiot.

ladysylvia wrote: »

What you say is false. Any defense debuff is -% DR. Not a dmg buff. A dmg buff is Lantern or other really dmg buffs. I tested multiple -% DR on multiple targets. What you say is this case:
x(y)
Tested: 10% Arpen 20% Target Resistance 20% 'Dmg buff':
1000*20*0,9 = 1080
Test show:
1100(1000). So please don't spread false information.

I'm not even sure what you are saying? what is that math supposed to represent? and Armor Pen? that's not a debuff and it's not calculated in with debuffs. You are the one spreading false information so please get a clue before you post this drivel.

So again, Here is how this game works:

Mobs have a specific amount of DR, ranging from 0% on minions up to 24% on defender type boss mobs. The only thing that affects this DR is the Armor Pen stat (and associated stat bonus for certain classes from stats), which is why every character stacks arp up to 24% for PVE.

All debuffs in the game are in fact dmg buffs that apply to dmg dealt to the mob. Regardless of what the tool tip says (ie some say -defense, some say -mitigation, some say - damage resistance, etc), none of them actually impact DR or mix with Armor Pen in anyway, shape, or form. They all grant bonus dmg towards the mob and it's completely separate from DR via Armor Pen.

This is all easily verifiable via using a combat log parser and has been known since open beta. Please stop spreading false information and confusing new players on how the game works when you clearly haven't a clue.

pitshade · January 2014

kolatmaster wrote: »

CON for GWFs... I wish it was STR, trust me! lol

You're right, I just typed the wrong thing.

cwforumposter · January 2014

inthefade462 wrote: »

You have no clue what you are talking about.

Congrats you can google the DR formula for level 60 player characters, it has nothing to do with mobs or how debuffs work in this game. What are you even talking about 45% straight DR buff? GPF is 9% boost to dmg with 3 stacks. It's always +9% regardless of how much DR the mob has, because mobs do not have player character DR formulas. They don't even have defense. They have a flat mitigation of 0%, 7%, 15%, 22%, or 24% depending on their rank and type, ie striker, defender, etc.

I said that even if GPF stacked and you had 5 in your party, it would only add +45% if you managed all 5 players maintaining 3 stacks, which is less than what a single cw can do. It was a response to some special person saying something redonkulous about "negative defense and over 9000" etc nonsense. Learn to read please before quoting me and making yourself look like an idiot.

I'm not even sure what you are saying? what is that math supposed to represent? and Armor Pen? that's not a debuff and it's not calculated in with debuffs. You are the one spreading false information so please get a clue before you post this drivel.

So again, Here is how this game works:

Mobs have a specific amount of DR, ranging from 0% on minions up to 24% on defender type boss mobs. The only thing that affects this DR is the Armor Pen stat (and associated stat bonus for certain classes from stats), which is why every character stacks arp up to 24% for PVE.

All debuffs in the game are in fact dmg buffs that apply to dmg dealt to the mob. Regardless of what the tool tip says (ie some say -defense, some say -mitigation, some say - damage resistance, etc), none of them actually impact DR or mix with Armor Pen in anyway, shape, or form. They all grant bonus dmg towards the mob and it's completely separate from DR via Armor Pen.

This is all easily verifiable via using a combat log parser and has been known since open beta. Please stop spreading false information and confusing new players on how the game works when you clearly haven't a clue.

You sound angry bro beans.. Is it because you feel stupid?

Also. Explain how the HV bug caused as much damage as it did then?

By your logic, 70 stacks of HV would be around a 280% damage buff, and we all know it was more than that.

ottoarc · January 2014

If I want to build a hr(archery) ,which enchant will be more suitable for me ? I like plaguefire a lot actually but not gonna get it because I PvP a lot and it become useless if my teammate have it too.I had a g.vorp but since mod 3 up than vorpal is gonna be kinda useless right(guess in auction a lot will drop their vorpal price). So which enchant suite me better ,was thinking of p.bronze wood of the 16% resistance ignore,really nice.if I marked a target:example a cw,so usually cw/tr/hr/dc do not have high Dr like gwp/gf. So if I marked them and fire the powerful aimshot I think that's the end to them,if not than may be very less HP. Am I correct with this ? Because if this kind of build is viable i would make a horc HR and starting roll would be 18dex 18 str and 12 wis..with 18str at start i will get a 8% resistence ignored + 16% (p.bronze) = a total of 24% ? would be a great start isn;t it ? than raise my resistence ignored to 35% than rest will pump into power ? would that be a nice build ? if im wrong please correct me ? And also can anyone tell me how p.feytouched work ? Not every good at math and can anyone tell me if p.bronze VS p.feytouched which will win out ?

inthefade462 · January 2014

cwforumposter wrote: »

You sound angry bro beans.. Is it because you feel stupid?

Also. Explain how the HV bug caused as much damage as it did then?

By your logic, 70 stacks of HV would be around a 280% damage buff, and we all know it was more than that.

I see that you are bad at math, here, let me help you:
70 x 9% = 630% dmg increase

frarii · January 2014

makes sense, i had 240 crits on 70ish HV stacks on my gf when the normal crits for my encounters are 30-40k ish, now i understand why Perfect bronzewood was so good at dps output and agro, its a flat 16% damage increase and the stupid agro it produces.

ottoarc · February 2014

is p.bronzewood viable for the build i stated ? or is it just a trash because heard alot saying that bronzewood is not 16% resistence ignored and also NOT 16% damage increase to you .. just a 16% reduction to AC ?

iuliandrei · February 2014

All debuffs in the game are in fact dmg buffs that apply to dmg dealt to the mob. Regardless of what the tool tip says (ie some say -defense, some say -mitigation, some say - damage resistance, etc), none of them actually impact DR or mix with Armor Pen in anyway, shape, or form. They all grant bonus dmg towards the mob and it's completely separate from DR via Armor Pen

So why don't just say that on the tooltip? like it does for the lantern? Why have 3 different words to describe the same thing? are they purposely trying to confuse us? why should i trust you?

edit: everything in this game is vague and ambiguous, i don't know why anyone would be smug about anything he's saying

diogene0 · February 2014

All debuffs in this game are straight damage increase. Most can be stacked, some don't. I have checked it myself during solo play, using a dmg parser, etc.

This is why playing this game is such a faceroll by the way, mobs get so many debuffs stacked on them you don't even need a tank to tank stuff, you don't always need a cleric to prevent damage from occurring, because most mobs die before they can cast a single spell.

This is also why CWs are so popular. They have great debuffing abilities.

I could show you videos of myself doing 100-120k crit ice knifes on Valindra, and i know this is quite low compared with some other people's standards.

ottoarc · February 2014

ok diogen or anyone can tell me which will be the most Damage increase ? - P.bronzewood VS P.Terror VS P.Feytouched ? which one will win in most damage increase ? Just these 3 ok Please dont compare p.vorp because i already had that and please dont compare Greater plaguefire because dont really like dot damage !! JUst these 3, because i have already started a hr with 18str 18 dex and 12 wis ..Currently lvl 10 and wanted to test out with one of these enchant immediately ? and 18 str gives me a 8% resistence ignored, Dont really wanna put my p .vorp in it because i purpously make my wis low because of Mod 3 coming and big massive nerf to Crit damage, Ok someone please tell me about these 3 enchantment only ok

warpet · February 2014

ottoarc wrote: »

ok diogen or anyone can tell me which will be the most Damage increase ? - P.bronzewood VS P.Terror VS P.Feytouched ? which one will win in most damage increase ? Just these 3 ok Please dont compare p.vorp because i already had that and please dont compare Greater plaguefire because dont really like dot damage !! JUst these 3, because i have already started a hr with 18str 18 dex and 12 wis ..Currently lvl 10 and wanted to test out with one of these enchant immediately ? and 18 str gives me a 8% resistence ignored, Dont really wanna put my p .vorp in it because i purpously make my wis low because of Mod 3 coming and big massive nerf to Crit damage, Ok someone please tell me about these 3 enchantment only ok

if bronzewod works like armor penetration then this should the best but im not sure how it works

ottoarc · February 2014

Than can anyone tell me he it works

kweassa · February 2014

inthefade462 wrote: »

You have no clue what you are talking about.

Congrats you can google the DR formula for level 60 player characters, it has nothing to do with mobs or how debuffs work in this game. What are you even talking about 45% straight DR buff? GPF is 9% boost to dmg with 3 stacks. It's always +9% regardless of how much DR the mob has, because mobs do not have player character DR formulas. They don't even have defense. They have a flat mitigation of 0%, 7%, 15%, 22%, or 24% depending on their rank and type, ie striker, defender, etc.

I said that even if GPF stacked and you had 5 in your party, it would only add +45% if you managed all 5 players maintaining 3 stacks, which is less than what a single cw can do. It was a response to some special person saying something redonkulous about "negative defense and over 9000" etc nonsense. Learn to read please before quoting me and making yourself look like an idiot.

I'm not even sure what you are saying? what is that math supposed to represent? and Armor Pen? that's not a debuff and it's not calculated in with debuffs. You are the one spreading false information so please get a clue before you post this drivel.

So again, Here is how this game works:

Mobs have a specific amount of DR, ranging from 0% on minions up to 24% on defender type boss mobs. The only thing that affects this DR is the Armor Pen stat (and associated stat bonus for certain classes from stats), which is why every character stacks arp up to 24% for PVE.

All debuffs in the game are in fact dmg buffs that apply to dmg dealt to the mob. Regardless of what the tool tip says (ie some say -defense, some say -mitigation, some say - damage resistance, etc), none of them actually impact DR or mix with Armor Pen in anyway, shape, or form. They all grant bonus dmg towards the mob and it's completely separate from DR via Armor Pen.

This is all easily verifiable via using a combat log parser and has been known since open beta. Please stop spreading false information and confusing new players on how the game works when you clearly haven't a clue.

Er... in mathematical terms, its simply one and the same;; since the formula itself can be easily rearranged in a different form to represent how conceptually the debuff looks more like a debuff. I mean, if we really want to talk about the pure numbers aspect, the transliterated terms of "debuff" or "damage buff" is simply semantics, a representation that makes it a bit easier for people to understand.

Both of you are conceptually, right. It's the same thing as; ummm.. for example, how in a certain scenarios a HoT heals can be simply coceptually considered as a form of damage mitigation. It just depends on which aspect you want to focus on during the math.

(ps) Or.. in similar cases, Regen or heals, can easily be considered equal to essentially "minus damage", and therefore, can also be presented in a formula which essentially considers it a form of damage mitigation over given time.

Like said, its simply semantics.

inthefade462 · February 2014

not really. Well, as long as you separate armor pen calculation from debuffs entirely, you are correct. The problem is these people don't. Also if you think of them as debuffs, then you have all these "Debuffs" which say they reduced mitigation / resistance / defense / etc and they don't. Or if they do, then you have to conceptualize that mobs have 2 types of Mitigation, one of which is affected only by armor pen and the other which is affected only by debuffs. Only then is what you are saying true. You have to perform a lot of rearranging and adding complications to make it work.

It's a rather silly and convoluted way of thinking about about it when the reality is debuffs are damage buffs.

Debuff Stacking

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