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Vorpal and Soulforge
deathsremnant
Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 185
Basically anytime someone asks "What enchants should I use?" These are the 2 always listed. Why? Because they work extremely well on any build.
(Except maybe on GF's because their base crit chance is so low, none of their stats increases crit, and most of their armor sets dont have + crit)
Honestly most of the complaints about certain classes in pvp can even be tied to these enchants, "TR's do too much dmg" Anytime I see this during a match 9/10 times that TR has a perfect vorp, the other 1 point is usually someone with bad gear..."GWFs are too tanky"...now this is more then just a soulforge issue but it does play a large part, I can see where after finally taking down a heavily geared GWF how a perfect soulforge combined with a pvp trinket can cause issues.
So should these enchants be toned down? Personally I would love to see the other enchants actually have some use in the game, and not be considered basically "trash". Would suggest Soulforge gaining a higher CD, maybe 3-5 mins instead of every 1 min. Vorpal could have its crit severity reduced, maybe 5% for lesser/10% for normal/ 20% for perf, 50% for a perf does seem like a lot to me, especially for some classes.
Just think if we work on the enchants we may see less "Nerf X class theyre OP" threads, when really most are fine as is. (Though personal QQ's i hate perma stealth and unstoppable lol but thats beside the point)
(Except maybe on GF's because their base crit chance is so low, none of their stats increases crit, and most of their armor sets dont have + crit)
Honestly most of the complaints about certain classes in pvp can even be tied to these enchants, "TR's do too much dmg" Anytime I see this during a match 9/10 times that TR has a perfect vorp, the other 1 point is usually someone with bad gear..."GWFs are too tanky"...now this is more then just a soulforge issue but it does play a large part, I can see where after finally taking down a heavily geared GWF how a perfect soulforge combined with a pvp trinket can cause issues.
So should these enchants be toned down? Personally I would love to see the other enchants actually have some use in the game, and not be considered basically "trash". Would suggest Soulforge gaining a higher CD, maybe 3-5 mins instead of every 1 min. Vorpal could have its crit severity reduced, maybe 5% for lesser/10% for normal/ 20% for perf, 50% for a perf does seem like a lot to me, especially for some classes.
Just think if we work on the enchants we may see less "Nerf X class theyre OP" threads, when really most are fine as is. (Though personal QQ's i hate perma stealth and unstoppable lol but thats beside the point)
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Comments
The enchants that really need buffing are the armor enchants. Except soulforge, most of them are worse value than a guy offering you a "100% genuine" Rolex for $50 in a dark nightclub toilet...
I am against nerfing the enchants. The others must be brought up to par instead.
And yea, the other enchants might need some improvement or rework to make them more viable, especially Negation and Flaming.
Toning down Vorpal and Soulforged would not be a wise decision though as it will affect the majority of the playerbase in a negative way.
All the enchants that work once every 60 seconds are terrible.
I have a lesser vorpal which I could be lucky to upgrade to next rank in ~2 weeks. (no I won't spend AD or zen to buy ready made higher or end tier enchants, I spend AD and zen on cosmetic and utility stuff - and loads of it, I want to have a self sense of progression, is rewarding when you work toward a goal than when you click 1 button and get anything or everything - for me at least). I don't realistically see myself getting a greater vorpal anywhere before mid summer or something like that. Why would I work toward such an enchant if the benefits would be minimal? It's same with crafted weapons. They either take a ton of time or a lot of currency (buy or borrow assets, get lucky farming or buy mats from AH etc), they have to be BiS for that, if they were just different skins but same stats with rest of bows of their tier, would anyone except select few actually bother to level the professions and achieve them?
Soulforged and Vorpal are best because that's how it works in a mmo, something out of each category must be better than everything else. There will always be something that provides highest spike damage and something that provides highest sustained damage. Something that provides 1 trick pony ressurection, or continuous increased survival (Defense boos or deflection etc).
I am all up for making rest of enchants more appealing (some of them already are, you want terror and plaguefire in your group if you are serious about dungeoning with your friends / guild, group dps >>> personal dps).
I sense that your observation comes more from a PvP PoV than PvE one (it doesn't matter if someone has soulforged if they can't move out of red zones for example, and is not game changing, in 75% of scenarios when you die and soulforged procs you will most likely die again during stand-up animation frames as you can't dodge / use pot or anything).
And yes, Soul should have longer timer and Vorpal should give less - and I own both but I recognize that there is a problem and the usual "but but but ppl worked hard" doesn't justify NOT balancing the gameplay. It's not like the changes can be only positive.
Dude, Soulforged is brilliant already in the Lesser variant, which is quite easily obtainable - it outshines ANY other armor enchantment straight away. Upgrading it just gives you ~1k HP more, the base one is already very powerful. I would love to run a Bloodtheft for my orc cleric (for RP reasons) but it's just not worth it - it's <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>.
Vorpal is excellent, but it's overrated due to perception bias. It is easy to see increased vorpal damage on big crits, but it is hard to see, say, GPF damage based upon dots and debuffs.
We have looked into it on CW, and GPF/P.Vorpal/P.Terror don't have much DPS difference. The Vorpal might perform better on Personal DPS, but the others effect team DPS, therefore i consider vorpal the 3rd best option here.
I have heard wonderful things about bronzewood. P. Lightning can be really great too - it's damage is very high. P. Bile is great for a PS/PvP/TR. I have a friend testing a perfect feytouched on a PvP DC, and she is very happy with those results. I also know many people that use lifedrinkers and are very happy with them. I have some guildmates with P. Holy Avenger, the buff is nice but the % weapon damage is very high and quite significant.
Personally i chose
P.Vorpal - TR/HR
P. Terror - MoF CW
GPF - GF/GWF/DC.
If GPF ever stacks i will switch the DC and CW
As for armor enchants, soulforge is awesome and amazing, especially for squishies. The other enchants have their uses.
Elven Battle is great for kiting and/or PvP, on a tanky character, especially when prone duration is effected by control resist.
I have seen a lot of tanky classes use briartwine - which is quite annoying in PvP and draws aggro in PvE.
Barkshield is also nice -but more for PvP as you have time for the stacks to recharge. It makes your characters really quite tanky.
That said, most of the armor enchants and other weapon enchants are the once every second colldowns. It is very hard to chose something that with proc 1/60 seconds when you could be taking so many hits.
Personally, i would love to see the other enchants redesigned so that they become more useful, rather than soulforge be nerfed.
Everything you need to know about CW:
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?780981-Chem-s-CW-Compendium-Everything-you-need-to-know
Barkshield > Soulforged
SF is for people who plan on dying a lot.
Excuse me while I facepalm. Nothing like oversimplification, is there?
By that logic, Barkshield is for people who somehow plan on avoiding all kinds of tick damage and magically saving their Bolstered Bark charges for when they actually need them. Barkshield is one of the best enchantments, but it also has a serious weakness that shouldn't be overlooked.
Anyway, the issue is that there are seriously bad enchantments that still haven't seen a rework. Frost and Flame enchantments are definitely among the worst offenders. Negation used to be at least situationally relevant, but now it's looking pretty sad compared to SF and BS with its chance activation and short uptime.
Contagion - Cleric
Testament - Wizard
Pestilence - Ranger
Dominion - Paladin
NIGHTSWATCH
I don't PVE and don't sit out of combat in PVP long enough for barkshield to charge, so it's worthless to me.
Whereas I don't agree with the term 'a lot', I will agree the sentinment is correct. SF is used, obviously, to minimize the effects of dying... I use one on my Destroyer GWF (Dakkon Blackblade) as he is a glass cannon sitting at about 21.5k HPs w/Campfire Buff. Thus, I expect to die by getting caught (eventually) in chain CC/AoEs of adds, etc. Thus I use it... trapublican is correct in his assessment.
Oversimplication, but still factual based as it is. Just playing Devil's Advocate. :cool:
Not very well
Different enchants are better for different classes, roles and activities. Saying "X > Y" is just wrong. Such a simple-minded approach is actually misleading.
If your class has a DPS output which depends on taking damage, for example, barkshield is utterly pointless- you may as well have an enchant that projects a bat signal. Heck, there are specific fights which render barkshield useless too- Valindra has a nasty habit of constantly pelting players with damage at random throughout the fight.
As long as we're splitting hairs, I'd suggest that players usually don't plan on dying in PvE and that SF isn't necessarily going to bring the most benefit to someone who's horribly death-prone. It's more of an insurance policy that you equip to ensure that you have the chance to recover during a boss fight if mistakes or uncontrolled circumstances (e.g. lag, glitched enemies, etc.) lead to you taking a dirtnap. It certainly won't save people from the consequences of playing poorly as a habit, which is what trapublican seemed to be saying.
Contagion - Cleric
Testament - Wizard
Pestilence - Ranger
Dominion - Paladin
NIGHTSWATCH