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Where does GWF currently stand now? PvE
beonaria11
Member Posts: 3 Arc User
Heya guys/gals. I played this game about 5-6 months ago, not sure how long, but during that time GWF wasn't good enough to be really wanted in a party, as DPS/DD or as a Tank. Controller or TR would always be better because Controller could push everything off edge making any AoE DPS a GWF can do moot, not to mention Controllers did great AoE dmg anyway on top of grouping everything up, and TR just beats GWF in single target DPS, (usually?) Just wanted to know, how are they looking now to the general populace?
Thanks.
Thanks.
Post edited by beonaria11 on
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Right now Sentinel GWF is very good in PvP.
In PvE, GWF are perfectly balanced I think with good survivability and AOE damage. Parties still prefer CWs of course over everything (<= the fact that this has been true since Open Beta might indicate that there is a balance issue in PvE), but being a GWF is no longer an auto-decline or kick from PUG parties.
I'd really like some more opinions though from others. So keep it coming. ^^
Right now PVE GWFs are fairly desirable in groups. They are still 2nd to control wizards who have always been the most desirable class.
As for PVE you'll find GWF at the top of the DPS charts unless there is a CW with the same or higher level GS and enchants. The reason for this is not lack of performance on GWF side but simply because GWF is melee and therefore lack the long range of a CW. Also GWF has Slam which interrupts Valindra in MC so that makes us pretty welcome these days.
Considered OP in PvP because other classes used to roll over the gwfs and find it hard now when facing a forged Sent.
In PvE, considered now better than before but the old issues are still there, vulnerable to AoEs, snail-slow melee, bad solo-target, always running around without dps-ing much. Niche slot in VT for Val interruption but even there a CW is better.
And yes, massive impending nerf.
Right now, GWFs are tied with CWs in power in PvE with t2-rank7s and even slightly above them once they reach max gear, a max geared, well specced GWF is the best toon in the game, unkillable and awesome in PvP and highest DPS output while being infinitely more survivable and even being capable of "run" and "tank" in PvE.
Less geared GWFs are still good in PvE at the same level than HRs or GFs but a lot more desired in pugs cuz right now they're a fad.
Bad players are still bad players.
Also, GWFs are a lot more fun to play than CWs so, right now, GWF is the best toon on the game, and i dont think is even that close with CWs.
I really doubt anyone has 1 000 000 T2/2.5 runs......
Edited, Ty.
I think for leet groups gwf is suboptimal, for strong, average, and weak groups it is desirable. GWF IV Sent is a true tank and is generally welcomed as such.
Jugger Conq GF
....
GWFs in PvP are very strong, though again... All things being equal there are better classes/builds then a Sentinel GWF at the high levels of PvP. In random PUGs though, GWFs can be a nightmare to deal with.
I'd say GWFs are in an awesome place right now. :cool:
[IMG][/img]
Whoever doubts that are bad player period.
Right now, CWs are still the class "most wanted" for PvE, often stacked. But looks like devs have no interest in fixing that by changing the dungeons and stuff. GWFs in PvE, if geared/ specced properly can get close to CWs in terms of damage, but CWs are still a bit ahead overall. Plus, they have cc. Put both together, and you know why they are absolute PvE rulers. Best DPS along with best cc. Want more? But right now, it's easier for us GWFs to get into a dungeon run. Overall, we're seen as a semi-tank (GF is still better to kite mob crowds) that can AoE DPS and, if needed, tanks the boss. Deep Gash helped a lot to raise our DPS in PvE. If it gets nerfed/ changed without any other change (target cap raised), we will be back to being a half-assed tank with half-assed DPS. Read: left out again from dungeons.
For PvP, sentinel regen tank builds are very strong and hard to deal with. Add to this that most people does not know how to deal with a GWF, and you have the flood of nerf requests we have right now.
With tenacity we're getting, all-in-one:
- Unstoppable huge nerf (temporary HP cut in half)
- Unstoppable recovery huge nerf (healing cut in half)
- Restoring Strike huge nerf (healing cut in half)
- Sentinel Aegis nerf (the boost of restoring strike cut in half too)
- Heroic Duelist full set huge nerf (full set bonus healing cut in half)
These are all feats/ powers/ gear specifically designed to heal during combat. And, considering that in PvE, with a DC constantly shielding/ healing you, they make little difference, it's a clear nerf on PvP capabilities to the Whole class.
Devs introduced Healing depression to change the way PvP works and reduce self healing capabilities. Too bad that we had specific gear, feats and powers designed to make us recover during combat, and with healing depression we're getting, along with the generic regeneration-life steal-healing nerf, a very specific huge nerf to all this stuff.
It's very interesting how people see things in this game.
For example: TRs used to answer "learn to play" to anyone complaining about their ability to go permastealth with ITC and dodge roll immunity. Then, after IV paragon path was introduced, they started to complain about how OP GWFs were. Then again, one of these TRs, explained that, well, we were clearly OP cause before module 2 he was able to kite us forever and kill us, and now he couldn't do that. So, if they can kite us forever in PvP it's all good and skills. But if they can't, there's a balance issue.
Another example: before module 2, people used to laugh at us. We were "so cute, trying to kill thingys". But again, who cares. It was all ok if we could find a Group to enter a dungeon. Never read anyone except GWFs asking for a fix to our PvE situation. After module 2, CWs, and TRs too, started to complain cause our damage was too high, and Deep Gash needed a nerf. In few words: you are left out of PvE, who cares, none of our business. But if you dare start doing close to our DPS, even if we've still no problems in getting into dungeon runs, it's unexceptable.
Overall, as things are now, we're good for both PvP and PvE. But i would wait and see what happens in the future.
Like when we used to get GFs to kite the adds at FH (do we still do that?)
or TR runners (remember those guys?
anyway its good that gwfs are back in favor....
i think alot of people speccd badly in that class but now they are mostly good and dps alot (although its likely first pull bonus...
Isn't this be a good thing from a balance point of view?
Although I don't really PvP, Sentinel GWFs seems to be very (too?) good right now in PvP and this will re-balance the playing field there without killing off the GWF in PvE?
On the success of gwf :
Is in the class description have VERY high damage and be secundary defender. In this sense , just become what we should be in theory . But we do not have the ability to group enemies / threat ( is the only class that is not described as controller ) . This is the " logistical weakness of gwf "; all have one. Now the question : who is the expert in crowd control ?
Then we have the "problem " 1 : Additional gwf class is the best class in the game ( and that too is only working as it should ) .
Problem 2 : an environment only gwf who their enemies would attack ? The gwf ! Ie for gwf the best is that you do have multiple cw or multiple gwf ( The ranger , for example , disrupts gwf since his failure logistics consists precisely in high threat) .
How to solve this? Just that the enemies have resistance to effect of different individuals of the same class acting together ( cc / bleed / stealth / etc ) .
In return , which create additional effects for simultaneous use of different powers of different classes . then we would have synergy between antagonistic classes .
If your GWF is vulnerable to AoE and has bad single target DPS then you might want to read a few beginner guides and regem/respec. AoE is your lifeblood, you should be able to stand in red to soak up that precious determination, to keep unstoppable popping, and keep the DPS rolling; it is core to how the class works in dungeons.
Moreover, if your single target DPS is lousy, then you have something very wrong. It's really easy to do solid single target DPS these days. Really easy.
If you're "always running around without dps-ing much" then you're doing it very wrong indeed.
Moreover, you are not "niche slot in VT for Val interruption", though slam is indeed useful in Malabog's Castle. In VT, you should be very high n the DPS stakes on the last boss, so much so that you often have aggro, and often shouldn't dash for the hands in case she drops an AoE circle on the poor victim.
Really? I find grouping enemies easy with "Come And Get It" followed by "No so fast" and a few "Wicked Strike" to solidify things. You can't one button drag them from the other side of the room while drinking tea, but it's remarkably effective, either during the initial pull, or to get stuff off your squishies.
... suddenly the class became so perfect in every way, is the miracle of the bleed.
and:
Great Weapon Fighter/Role: Damage Dealer/Secondary Defender
Control Wizard/Role: Controller/Striker
Devoted Cleric/Role: Leader/Controller
Guardian Fighter/Role: Defender/Secondary Controller
Hunter Ranger/Role: Striker/Controller
Trickster Rogue/Role: Striker/Controller
http://neverwinter.gamepedia.com/Trickster_Rogue (other links at bottom of page.)
Don't want to discuss it here, since this is a PvE thread. But, shortly: GWF sentinel tanks are very good in pug PvP (in premade, i've never seen problems in dealing with them. Which should suggest to people that there's not a big issue in the class itself) for 3 reasons:
- high regen-HP-Unstoppable sinergy gives them lots of survivability
- unstoppable is based on X damage taken, which makes it far more effective on high HP builds
- ArP is on CON, which gives all-in-one the best offensive stat for PvP (ArP) and the best HP, which feeds the above sinergy
- People don't really know how to face a GWF. They go DPS him like any other class. Too bad GWFs are not like any other class. They can't avoid damage but, in return, they can turn damage into a weapon (unstoppable) and get stronger. This means you need to focus DPS a lot (i explained why in other topics. Countless times). In pugs, people just keeps hitting a GWF, for example, with at-wills when he is not in unstoppable. This deals very small damage he can regenerate, and feeds his determination, allowing him to go unstoppable more and, as a consequence, regenerate more.
Restoring strike is a power, in no way OP. Collateral nerf due to Healing depression will just make it unuseful in PvP.
Unstoppable itself is not the source of the problems, it's the sinergy i mentioned above. Nerfing regeneretion during combat, through healing depression, would be enough. Nerfing unstoppable again (it got nerfed already a couple of times) for both recovery and temp HPs just hurts the DPS builds as well (destroyers) and adds an unneeded nerf to one of our feats. Making determination build over % of damage taken instead of a fixed amount, and applying healing depression to regeneration/ life steal/ potions only, would have been a much, much better way to balance stuff.
Heroic Duelist 4 set bonus was not even ever mentioned by anyone. Yet it gets a collateral nerf as well. And considering PvP gear is going to get needed, it's a huge nerf. Who will use this set, with the effect cut in half? No one. Which means, the set is going to be useless.
Sentinel Aegis gets only a partial nerf, but still, it was not needed just like the restoring strike collateral nerf.
Specific, collateral huge nerfs (yes, huge cause these powers/ sets/ abilities/ feats will be brutally cut in half) were, if you ask me, not needed. And do not add anything to "balance".
I'll test things and adapt as usual. It's just that, really, those specific, collateral nerfs are not needed.
Personally I don't care about pvp and I think its never going to be balanced and through a lack of foresight some new obnoxious meta will rule within a month of m3 hitting. That's not even mentioning the gearwar that is a lot of pvp which makes it fundamentally uncompetitive. And the trs were obnoxious and dumb before they got nerfed and they had it coming.
That said gwfs are obviously op in pvp. In pve I don't think people want them to be worthless again because rainbow parties are more fun and stacking 3 cws anywhere but cn is the definition of tedious. And now the inevitable but, but 40-50% of damage coming from a starting feat is dumb and if you want that kind of damage bonus you should have to make trade offs to achieve it. Instead you have ultra survivable and big dps which is why you see so many gwfs playing so dumb. Like a lot of players are dumb but I'm talking brain injury dumb.
What I reckon will happen is cryptic will nerf it then not do anything to replace it because that's how things have gone in other cryptic games.