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The cleric dread legion 4 pts set bonus is absolutely PATHETIC.
diogene0
Member Posts: 2,894 Arc User
Dear Cryptic devs,
I'm usually a great supporter of how you tweak the DC class. But this time, you've been trolling us. I'm talking about the dread legion set. I've spent one month doing Valindra's tower at least twice a day for the most pathetic set bonus you've ever made. While I really like the stats, because I need to get rid of recovery with all these new artefacts, the set bonus is really a shame.
Here are the results:
http://img15.hostingpics.net/pics/921519mendingToS.png
Yes, 50k worth of heal, for a set i've spent one month farming. Really awesome. Even the Fabled set had a better set bonus. Of course we aren't talking about miracle healer here... If that's the price to pay not to get beyond the recovery softcap, this is a bitter pill, but this time I'm not buying it.
I was using the following spells: sun burst, astral shield, divine glow, sacred flame & astral seal.
It looks like the proc rate is either extremely low or that it doesn't proc from Astral shield ticks, from astral seal (our two main heals, so thank you again), or from repurpose soul.
But the most funny element is yet to come: I have been healed 4 times more by healing potions. And these 59k have been shared among 5 characters, which means 11.8k each during a 30 minutes dungeon run... I can't stress it enough. You've outdone yourselves. Now, congratulations, you've made me extremely frustrated, and it's a bit hard to make me frustrated in games.
I'm usually a great supporter of how you tweak the DC class. But this time, you've been trolling us. I'm talking about the dread legion set. I've spent one month doing Valindra's tower at least twice a day for the most pathetic set bonus you've ever made. While I really like the stats, because I need to get rid of recovery with all these new artefacts, the set bonus is really a shame.
Here are the results:
http://img15.hostingpics.net/pics/921519mendingToS.png
Yes, 50k worth of heal, for a set i've spent one month farming. Really awesome. Even the Fabled set had a better set bonus. Of course we aren't talking about miracle healer here... If that's the price to pay not to get beyond the recovery softcap, this is a bitter pill, but this time I'm not buying it.
I was using the following spells: sun burst, astral shield, divine glow, sacred flame & astral seal.
It looks like the proc rate is either extremely low or that it doesn't proc from Astral shield ticks, from astral seal (our two main heals, so thank you again), or from repurpose soul.
But the most funny element is yet to come: I have been healed 4 times more by healing potions. And these 59k have been shared among 5 characters, which means 11.8k each during a 30 minutes dungeon run... I can't stress it enough. You've outdone yourselves. Now, congratulations, you've made me extremely frustrated, and it's a bit hard to make me frustrated in games.
Post edited by diogene0 on
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I'm generally appreciative of the work that Cryptic staff put into the game and am reasonably sure that they don't TRY to annoy players or make the game less fun, but most of the Dread Legion items make virtually no sense at all.
Contagion - Cleric
Testament - Wizard
Pestilence - Ranger
Dominion - Paladin
NIGHTSWATCH
Soothing Light spam should clarify things - it's the one heal that can proc almost anything non-specific.
If SL procs it regularly then I think we can safely assume that this set was designed for offense-type DCs who can't be bothered to slot more than one major healing encounter at a time. This won't tell us why they decided to give us another Iliyanbruen-type set, but at least we'll finally know what the set is for.
If not... we'll cross that bridge when we come to it (bring your own riot gear).
I really like the stats, that's why I was willing to give this set a try. I'm definitely not a fan of tanky DC types, stacking deflect and regen to ridiculous levels isn't my definition of cleric - all I need is 2k def, that's all, and it's there. Arpen and crit increase repurpose soul healing, is more useful than recovery when you use linked spirit, etc. You know, teamplay.
The set bonus though is a huge let down. I will make a test with healing word instead of divine glow but I definitely don't expect a significant boost. It should be triggered by astral shield, astral seal, and repurpose soul, to be meaningful.
I wasn't a fan of this set to start with, didn't really like the point distributions, although I did understand where they were going with it. But yeah now it turns out the 4 piece set bonus is pretty bad. I never liked the description of it in the tooltip but sometimes those can be misleading. I guess I'll just leave it sitting in my bank in the meantime or maybe I'll use it to transmute eventually, the skins are nice looking.
BTW how much lifesteal do you have?
Unless they changed something recently, ArP doesn't affect Repurpose Soul's healing (it's been proccing off of base damage, not post-mitigation damage).
I know you aren't a fan of deflection, regen, etc. Those of us who have a problem with the stats tend to complain because not only because of the ArP, but because of the Life Steal. No one in the party cares how much the cleric is Life Stealing for; if they wanted a self-sustaining AoE DPS, they'd have invited another CW :P DCs don't need Life Steal to deal supplementary damage and use effective debuffs.
Contagion - Cleric
Testament - Wizard
Pestilence - Ranger
Dominion - Paladin
NIGHTSWATCH
It was a ToS run, and the party wasn't awesome (on purpose). So yes i had to use quite a lot of potions. My character sheet says 637 life steal but i have linked spirit feated, so, it's probably a bit more.
Healing is less and less required with all the power creep gear and boons. You don't need deflect or regen to debuff and heal either. More damage is never wasted.
Does ACT count overhealing? or are those numbers just for actual amount of missing HP healed?
We'll agree to disagree, as usual when it comes to this topic
Contagion - Cleric
Testament - Wizard
Pestilence - Ranger
Dominion - Paladin
NIGHTSWATCH
It doesn't. I didn't monitor lifesteal, but i've been mostly leading the group (= running ahead and engaging mobs) while the rest of the team was more or less clueless and running around chasing minions. The average GS was 10-11k, including the tank. I was willing to put this set under heavy healing stress, to post the results. I had to take damage myself too to see if lifesteal was worth it.
I also compared in VT 1/2 and numbers from both were similar (works out to be ~3-4% outgoing heals). Basically the longer the encounters/dungeon run takes, the more MH is going to win out because it procs per encounter. Dread Legion has a minimum 30s cooldown, in reality it is usually a bit longer (around 50s) depending on when it procs, enemies being engaged etc.
If you do a back of the envelope calculation, in the ideal case:
700 HP*5 members *2 (procs twice per minute) =7000 healing per minute from Dread legion vs
1250 (5% of 25k HP) *3 encounters *4 (1 rotation ~every 15s) = 15000 healing per minute from Miracle Healer set.
Straight healing wise MH wins. I don't use it a lot but it seems to be about 3-8% of overall healing output from ACT (others can weigh in their experiences). That said, the in-progress third PvP set (Divine Herald) on preview has regen and a 4p bonus of 30% divinity gain and +7.5% healing which will likely exceed MH's bonus quite comfortably, even if stats take a slight hit from tenacity.
The DL set is not a bad solo set because your 3 DPS encounters coupled with higher lifesteal will keep you at full health almost always, tho most geared DCs at this point won't have major issues soloing anyway. It is more power, ArP and lifesteal and no recovery but even though I was used to a high recovery build the recovery can be made up by Rising Hope and Linked Spirit and slightly more intentional timing of encounters. I do agree the 4p bonus needs a boost- either change it to a more serious DPS/debuffing oriented bonus or remove the healing internal cooldown because it's seriously not competitive.
That said though, having parsed the DL GWF set and seeing the CW set at least they're bad across the board. So many missed opportunities- to me new sets are supposed to open up new builds/class role options but they simply do not offer anything particularly interesting or novel.
Guild and guide info
Module 4 Comprehensive DC guide |Module 4 MoF CW Handbook |New! Scourge Warlock Guide| NW Numbers and Mechanics guide |Crit, Power and DPS guide | Dungeon Delving guide and more
You're right, and all of this is what drives me nuts.
- Dread Legion isn't needed to be a solo sustain set because Miracle Healer already fills that niche just fine (who needs Life Steal when you heal yourself every single time you use an encounter - on top of all the temp HP from any class features and feats).
- As you noted, otherwise geared DCs don't need to rely on any specific set for their solo needs. We could do all of the solo content naked if we were so inclined.
- If Dread Legion is therefore an unnecessary option for solo and performs poorly in group play, exactly what was it supposed to be for? Love the artwork, but not understanding the game design choices that went into it. All I can guess is that Cryptic devs have some radically different vision of the DC class than many end-game players seem to and that, in the case of the CW set, they are too afraid to risk designing a set that would be truly competitive with High Vizier.
Contagion - Cleric
Testament - Wizard
Pestilence - Ranger
Dominion - Paladin
NIGHTSWATCH
So there's indeed an internal cooldown, it's dreadfully long, and makes the set bonus absolutely pointless.
Oh your chart listed something as "health steal" I believe it was the next line under your health pots and I just assumed that was your life gained from life steal...
But yeah in terms of the set bonus, 1% over the length of a dungeon is just pitiful
So much this.
I know some people swear by it, but god that thing is useless.
Anyway, nice to know the DL set isn't worth trying for. Thanks for posting all this.
Considering you can cast HW about 10 times per minute starting at 3 charges (3 charges + 7 recharges), AS about 4 times and Glow/Sunburst around 5-6 times, you'd be looking at ~1400 x up to 20 per minute. (+ any Divine HW)
A 7.5% healing bonus sounds unlikely to be capable of exceding this, considering the PC's 5% already doesn't.
The 30% DP gain sure is nice, but if you run a rotation of 2 healing encounters WITHOUT sunburst, your DP gain will be from the remaining encounter and at wills only, and you'd still need to run Divine Fortune in order to benefit on the 2 healing encounters, if you plan on using divine mode regularly.
As an aside, 30% extra DP sounds like a lot but actually isn't. Or at least it wasn't when I was testing Divine Fortune lvl3 vs no Divine Fortune when using Sunburst + Sacred Flame vs Dummies. The 20% bonus was overall maybe worth the AP gain of a single Sacred Flame from 0 to 4 pips of DP, if even that. Or Divine Fortune actually only buffs the DP gain of healing powers (i.e. ignores DP gain of non healing ones)
It's my lifesteal.
That's why this set is pitiful (no pun intended). Desirable stats shouldn't mean terrible set bonus. It just pushes people to try to balance mediocrity, and sometimes, what the devs think as poor stat balance end up being completely awesome. Like the wizard's high vizier, which is supposed to be the tankiest set and is just the best dps machine in this game allowing CWs to tank at the same time...
I'm not asking for a HV level set bonus, but at least, something meaningful, like, i don't know, extra stamina regen for the party, 5-6% of the total healing output from the set bonus, or 3-4% extra DR for the party... something we could actually care about.
I'm pretty sure divine fortune only buffs things like HW. Possibly only direct heals, even (HW, BoH). If you're planning on HW spam + other stuff, then it's kinda handy. Otherwise not so much.
Also, I dunno about you, but at-will spam is a pretty major source of DP for me: DG+shield and then just spam seal onto as much stuff as possible.
I second this. Divine Fortune only affects HW and BoH and I don't use BoH so I can't say anything about that. With HW it does give really nice DP gain. I use this for fights like maybe Draco or Valindra where I know I'm going to be spamming HW (not all groups really need this). It allows me to spam HW both normal and in divine which is puts out awesome healing and crazy AP gain. I also use it in PVP because I can never use my at-wills reliably enough, and then always end up starved for DP.
As long as you can put in several at-wills each rotation then your DP shouldn't be an issue. At least that's how it goes for me. It's when mobs start getting out of control and there's red everywhere that I start to feel starved for DP as I can't stop to use at-wills hardly at all, spend most of the time casting powers or running away from mobs/red circles
The DC is still in huge demand and always will be except for those rare cases where a devoted guild group knows what they are doing and have some pretty huge Gear Score and technique.
The nice thing about everyone getting more powerful is that there is less exploiting going on. I did two runs in a pug today of Karru that were total clears with no exploits. Did TOS in a pug yesterday and it was a full clear also. So, I am seeing much less exploiting going on now.
All that said, I would like to see a larger radius on Astral Shield and removal of its hard cap recovery, but I doubt that will ever happen.
A cleric that ignore my pvp technique post... So many clerics totally ignore pvp post and didn't want to read anytg abt pvp even although pvp clerics usually understand mechanics more than pve clerics...
Nevermind i will repeat again at here, DF affects four skills: SB, BoH, AS, HW. For SB, its divinity is seperated into 2 parts, one from damage one from heals, so if u slot DF and cast SB in DM, then u will saw your divinity recharged. SB + DF is the only combo that gives divinity in DM. And for AS, it doesn't gives divinity unless in combat. BoH gives Action Points too even OUT of combat. HW gives divinity when you or your target or both receive a minimum heal of 1 HP.
Try do pvp even u are a pve cleric, I am 20/20/20 rolls too but I also can do well in pvp, with the exception of teaming with 6k-10k gs allies or allies with 12k+ gs above but dunno how to pvp.
Dude, what the hell.
Possibly I just misunderstood what you wrote because your spelling and syntax and general writing style makes me want to stab myself in the eyes. I was willing to overlook this, but if you're going to be a ****** about it, then I'm less likely to be lenient.
BUT HEY.
So. Looking at the (considerably more comprehensive as the game ages) wiki pages, it does appear that this class feature, with the useful description of "Your non damaging powers also build divine power" makes sunburst, a skill which heals AND damages in both divine and non-divine mode, generate DP in both normal and divine mode...with caveats as follows:
It also apparently gives DP from non-divine prophecy of doom, which is just...weird. So we can conclude that yet again, the code underlying this game is random as hell, and never believe a tooltip.
As for PvPing, I PvP reasonably regularly (i.e. am I online, is the glory bonus hour on, am I finished doing literally anything else) because I want to get that dumb artifact, but: 90% of PvP is either roflstomping or being roflstomped, because there is no attempt at matchmaking. It really doesn't matter how good you are, or even what class you are. I can happily hold 2 against 3-4 randoms, because I'm reasonably tanky and can dodge. But I learned this from just "being a cleric back before the aggro fix", rather than from PvP. Conversely, if I'm up against a premade, I'll probably still take a while to go down, but go down I will.
You're only going to get maybe 1 in 10 matches where you have an opportunity to learn anything, and the general experience is so unremittingly depressing that I can't see it being of any real use to anyone.
Good, any cleric user that is old enough in this game will have well developed skills *salute*. I still remember how i was forced to do Lair of the Pirate King with Forgemaster's Flame and HW with whole maps of adds swarming to me. That time even a Astral Seal will cause adds from half of the field to get you and you must survive that, or that will be a wipe. *Sigh* thats why i hate pve and turn into pvp cleric...
Now, i really rarely see some good pvp dc in pvp, mostly just for dailies and some even enter with 6k and 7k greens. Just hope them to learn how to play as DC, either to tank or to heal, AND not by feeding and facetank all 5 with less than 8k gs. Sorry if i am rude to you on that post, but i agree DC tooltip really cannot be trusted. I respect all other beta clerics that overcome the problems of bad feats, aggro, and nerfs. Btw, you still don't have your first bloodraven? I am getting my third one soon~ unless the new pvp set doesn't require glory to buy then i will buy arms to salvage.
Yeah, I usually only get an hour or so a day to play so it's not like I PvP daily, and since (as far as I can see) PvP is, as I stated, 90% either "winning by a landslide" or "being punted into a corner and introduced to the pointy ends of everything, on repeat", the opportunities to win glory are not awesome. On a good match, where like, the teams are balanced and both know how to play, I'll usually end up mid-table because assists just don't seem to count for much. Maybe 4 kills, 4 deaths and 56 assists or something stupid. And I don't get much for capping since I usually just end up holding 2. Perhaps I should stop doing that. :-/
Plus these matches usually take longer because it's not a landslide. More fun, but still:
"GG! Collect your 452 glory, and thanks for your half hour of life"
I think that might be because of the virtuous feat which heals you for 25% of the PoD dmg. Probably just too difficult to code divine fortune to be different depending on each tree is my guess.
Anyways, I use divine fortune as one of my regular feats... so it makes me kinda sad when people bash it or say it's used only if someone has a faulty build. It allows for instant healing unlike all the other skills because I can spam out divine healing words. It also increases the likelihood of a crit heal because you get so many more "tries" to get it...
Also, I often build hybrid so I can dps with one skill and heal with the rest. The divinity I get from the heals allows me to use dmg spells that don't return much divinity (searing light) and still have enough for healing.
On a side note, I think I'm an equally good pvp and pve DC. There's no need to say which one is better over the others, you can learn mechanics anywhere:)
For what it's worth, I always take 3 ranks in Divine Fortune just in case a situation comes up where I really need the extra Divinity. It's not that Divine Fortune is just a crutch for bad builds or inexperienced players, but for some DCs it becomes that. As we've seen in video on the forums, there are DCs out there who make it to 60 without fully grasping the Divinity mechanic and understanding that they actually have to use their attacks. I think that's why some of us have a habit of downplaying the importance of Divine Fortune.
And yes, Divine Fortune does have a wonderful synergy with HW
Contagion - Cleric
Testament - Wizard
Pestilence - Ranger
Dominion - Paladin
NIGHTSWATCH
Anyway, back on topic!
I've finally made a test with my beloved fabled set, and despite a lower healing output (damage in SP is a lot less sustained), I think it's significant enough for me to post the results here:
bigger. More wizards this time so my overall healing is 3 times inferior but % still makes sense.
Yes, fey healer is 10% of my healing, which is more or less equivalent to Miracle healer (believe it or not that's the case for me). A direct comparison between MH and Fabled is kinda moot here so let's just say that the malabog's castle set bonus is healing 10 times more than DL with almost equivalent stats. There's a major issue with the Dreag legion set, and it's really the first lousy set bonus clerics have gotten so far since release.