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Another useless Set bonus for the GF
saved81
Member Posts: 99
The new PvP set gives AGAIN def as 2/6 set bonus... it makes me wonder if the devs are aware that with the DR in this game, the only stat a GF DOESN'T need as set bonus is even more def?
We got 4 weapon's set and 7 armor set that give def and with any of these you already get more than 3500 def... WHY we got another set with def as set bonus??
Rework it... ANY other stat would be better... HP, deflection, ARP, Crit... whatever you got, even movement speed would be better than that useless defense.
We got 4 weapon's set and 7 armor set that give def and with any of these you already get more than 3500 def... WHY we got another set with def as set bonus??
Rework it... ANY other stat would be better... HP, deflection, ARP, Crit... whatever you got, even movement speed would be better than that useless defense.
Post edited by saved81 on
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It's in the patch notes. So just think of this as the first wave of PVP T2.5's. We are sure to see better stuff in the future.
But I'm also still waiting for a set that could replace Timeless for Conq GFs. It's really that or nothing through 2.5 expansions.
From my testings the valiant is already a better set than the timeless (with just 2.2k crit the valiant will give you a better boost than the timeless and the bonus from the valiant will benefit the whole party) and this perfectly fits with the problem that basically any set of the GF gives bad stats and or bad implemented bonuses.
Anyway that 463 def on the 2/6 bonus is a total waste and the devs should rework it most of all because they removed the HP wich was the best stat of the T1PvP/GG set.
Oh well... looking at the set... it just plain sux... they removed power and HP and gave recovery and regen.
The regen was already capped with the trinckets and the fomorian weapons, the recovery was easly pumped to 2k with trinkets, fomorian and the jewelry so it's just a dumb set.
It's about time that the GFs get a decent set.
Yes. I agree.
More def bonus is useless. Critical, arp or power would be more appreciated.
Well ALL the other classes sets got a rework for tune them up for PvP, while GF as always got more defense, the developper should understand that defence diminishing return start to kick in at 3000 defense and the hard cap is 3500 defense, so even if I stack 1000 more defense I will only get 1% damage resistance that is useless. If you want to make the GF more viable in PvP you don't need to give them more defence or deflect as they already reached a good amount of it, and the actual 4pcs bonus is not something funny, you get more defence bar, that goes down so fast you won't even notice. I think a lot of GF want to see something new, is not funny to stand in a base fighting for 5/10 minute for hold it just waiting for support or getting killed. And Is not either funny to be a glasscannon stun-locker maniac. We really need a breath of fresh air that change our role in PvP, something team-based that can be used to support your team and make actual feel your character usefull. I would like to see the GF as a defender, that help his teammate to not be killed without being a killing machine. Anyway I'm looking forward for those new set, any ETA for that? We can expect something with the new pvp patch or later on in the future?
I recently added the Valiant Warrior set to my bank account to do further testing, because my GF adds ~5% Crit with the set bonus, which transfers to a 3,75% DPS increase + ~2% DPS increase from the additional power vs. a flat 10% from Valiant.
Even if I could transfer my Crit to Recovery to maximize the effect of Timeless, the math ends up like this:
+2% from the additional power
+7.9% from the set bonus
+3.5% from the additional recovery
-4.5% from the lost Crit%
That's still only roughly 9% increase compared to the flat 10% from Valiant. I could probably find the best ratio between Crit and Recovery, but it's only 1%, so...
The big thing is uptime though. With the upcoming changes I can guarantee a 100% uptime of three Timeless stacks with my current encounter rotation, I don't think you can say the same about the Valiant debuff for every target you hit. I think that's where Timeless still got the edge over Valiant in solo play. And in a group setting Knight Captain's might be better because you can achieve 100% uptime as well and the group gets +25% power on every target and not only the ones you debuffed.
But you're basically right. That a character has to be fine-tuned this way to make a T2 better than a T1 set is just one of many inconsistencies in the game and we could need an upgrade.
You can't do wrong with T1s anyway. Valiant maximizes your personal DPS as Conq as we've seen, Knight Captain's is the best buffing set (I doubt High General can beat it with +10% Crit Severity, but it might be just like Timeless vs. Valiant where the T2 set has the slight edge under very special circumstances), defensive GFs should look for (the upcoming) PVP gear and I don't even know what the once famous Stalwart and Grand Regent are good for.
Hi. While I agree about the part about defense for the 2pc bonus not being effective, please do keep in mind, this is only the first wave of T2.5's. Give the devs a chance, I'm pretty sure we'll see some good 2pc stat in the future. If the other classes got it, what's stopping them from giving them to us? I personally would love to see a 2pc bonus that gives HP. As for the 4pc bonus, have you tried out the new Guard Meter in Preview? If you haven't, you'll be surprised at how much more tanky your Guard Meter is. It no longer gets depleted too much by single target attacks from mobs and this allows me to tank strikes and convert them to AP much more than usual using my defensive build. I personally love the 4pc bonus because I am using the type of GF that makes full use out of his Guard Meter.
And you can actually choose to play as a defender in PVP, though I believe it'll only be applicable in premade matches. I use Knight's Valor, Iron Warrior and Bull Charge in PVP but only when I have friends that can play with my GF. Node hold with the cleric and absorb 50% of the incoming damage of your team so they don't die quickly. There is no defensive play in PUG PVP unless you are a Sentinel GWF or a Stealth Rogue.
Accualy Knight Captain is nice for PVE.
tested High General Also, and with good setup team benefit from it also.
I don't get how a 210 more power from the timeless could end with a 2% flat dmg.
Also, from my testings, there was little to no difference between a perfect rotation with the timeless to keep the buff always active instead of a "on cooldown" spam of every encounter (I was using LS, FS, ET, rotation was FS, LS, ET, LS, FS and so on)
What you get from the buff always active is in large portion eaten by the DPS lost for the time your encounters stay out of cooldown.
The other interesting part is that the upcoming changes will benefit more the valiant since you will have more targets per AoE and another AoE and this is true both in single player and party.
About the party, I've tested the Valiant with a GWF always hitting the dummy I was debuffing (no other debuffs active other that the valiant) for 2 minutes, then I did the same test with the knight captain.
Even if he got 5k power, the Knight captain falled way behind the valiant, obviusly this won't represent the real world because the buff from the knight captain affects every member on every mob they are hitting but I came at the conclusion that the only scenario you will really enjoy such boost is against a boss and in that case, everyone will benefit at the best of my debuff not only, the noticiable difference in DPS between the knight Capt and the valiant seems a nice boost also in my agro generation that is still my main goal in the party.
Honestly I'm scared that the devs aren't completly aware of what a GF needs from his sets, I've seen too many sets with that 2/4 def bonus (look also at the bonus from the weapons set) and that's why I did this topic.
I'd also like that the same reduction to the Guard meter depletion would be applied to the DoTs.
I can't stand why a TR should completly drain my shield from 100% to 0% with just 1 DF bleed.
The same goes for the bilethorn enchant, it drains way more Guard meter than it should for the dmg it's dealing.
I've also given up with the possiblity to counter any TR that knows what he's doing, my best option is just to entertain him as longer as possible before the ineluctable fate will come.
From my test the 60" internal cooldown makes this set the worst set you can get.
Seems like a buff of some sort got in the way here because it's 1% actually. I don't really try to get the perfect rotation for max uptime on live, but with the upcoming changes this won't be necessary anyway because LS will take care of that.
Did some testing of the Valiant uptime in solo play and am still convinced the Timeless should come up slightly on top. But again: It's VERY annoying that a T2 has to fight to be superior to a T1. I consider myself to be a very experienced GF, but I got blinded here by the perception that a T2 should be better than a T1 and will probably switch to the Valiant now as well because I don't have to tweak my char to maximize the effect of Timeless and can use it in groups as well.
Thanks for the discussion saved81, helped me to clear up stuff. Have to transmute and dye another set now :cool:
As for PVP and the new set, I actually LOVE it! I was shocked at how much more block meter it ads, its really noticeable. Not to mention the run speed is awesome for pvp. The stats are actually good too, not too often do you get defense/deflect/regen all in the same gear.
Sure it has no offensive stats but thats where you can run different gear sets with rings and stuff. I was able to still hit 2k ARP with something like 1300 crit and 4k power wearing 4pc T2.5 pvp setup. So for pvp stats, offensively it seems solid.
Not to mention Mark is now perma 8% -DR on the target, get ARP up to 2k+ and now your pushing 28% -DR and thats without an enchant OR your Dex Factored in.
I have 24/25 Dex so 2200 = around 21% ARP + 15%(dex) + 8% Mark + 16% P Bronze = 60% possible penetration there... with 24% of that able to go into the negatives... Meaning any target under 60% DR in pvp will be negative.
Needless to say my GF will still hit like a truck in pvp.
First of all we need more GFs like Joshi, all his posts are very objective and probably I've learnt more reading his posts than playing myself.
Now:
- the effect of the valiant, despite what it's written, it's a flat 10% decreased target damage mitigation
- the effect of the bronzewood it's a flat 16% decreased target mitigation
- the only REAL armor penetration is the one from the DEX or the one from the stat itself (even the Terror and the Plaguefire aren't real a def debuff but more a "rephraised" decreased damage mitigation)
Timeless full set in PvP IMHO is just bad but that's another point, personal choise and definatly off topic.
One thing is for sure, both the timeless and the valiant are the most balanced set we got, probably the T2,5 PvP set should have similar stats with added the regen (I don't get why we shouldn't have 5 stats instead of 4) but, even more, the real problem is that they added DEF as 2/6 set bonus when we got a pletoria of better choises... we should, eventually take the main hand, the off-hand, 2/6 of the T 2,5, keep the bonus from the T2,5 4/6 and use 2/4 of the GG set... after that I ended with about 5.5k def and I felt like a dumb.
I think the buffing ability from GFs is very underrated. I haven't tested Knight Captain's but to simplify matters let's take the Valiant 10% debuff, which in dungeons should have about 80-90% uptime.
8%-9% Valiant
3%-9% Plaguefire
8% from Marked targets
So that peaks at 26% (CWs HV is 30%)
On single targets you can add Tide for another +20% and probably 7-8% from Crushing Pin if feated accordingly. That's a whopping +54% DPS boost for the whole party on any boss.
Thank you.
While I agree that GFs don't need more defense I doubt the given numbers. Here is what I know.
Defense 3000 -> 32,3%
Defense 3500 -> 34,0%
Defense 4000 -> 35,4%
Defense 4500 -> 36,6%
No hard cap at 3500 and more than 1% going from 3500 (3000) to 4500 (4000).
It's commonly called "Hard cap" when you get less than 0.3% of a stat increase per 100 points invested and, as you can clearly see by your own numbers, past 3500 you're in the "hard cap" area... noone says you can't stack more def past 3500 but would you better invest in any other stat?
Obviusly yes.