Using pre-made maps - overdone or ok?

queenzul · January 2014

Hello,

I'm curious how people feel about using pre-made maps. I'm not talking about the "tavern" map or generic city street maps. I'm talking about bigger more well known things like Malabog's Castle, or the grounds leading up to the castle. Should things like this be used in the foundry, or is it better to create unique maps?

chaoscourtesan · January 2014

I chose the middle option, but ultimately I don't care that much and I don't think it matters one bit how I feel about it anyway. I just took the option that I will follow if/when I get around to creating in the foundry. XD

EDIT- By middle option, I just mean the second one listed of three.. not that it's a 'middle of the road' or 'sitting on the fence' option. heheh

queenzul · January 2014

Thanks for the response. I basically wanted to know if there was a community consensus about this topic. "Ooh man. Another Clock Tower quest.. lame."

chaoscourtesan · January 2014

Ohhh.. well if it's in a very specific and recognizable place.. and it doesn't fit the lore and all of that place- I certainly think it might be seen as lame by a lot of people. I don't think a pre-made map should be used just because it's pretty. And with all the different perceptions, I think it would be very unlikely for many of the side stories to gel and not contradict each other. So yeah, I think it's not the best way to go.. but if one has a concept that is haunting one's dreams and he or she just has to get it out there.. go for it, I guess. Again, just posting as someone who might play it, and what I might think if I did.

orangefiree · January 2014

Surprisingly, premade maps are not used very much. The one thing that is overused a little is actually the base models for encounters. Though as Chaoscourtesan said, if you are using a very recognizable map, it would be good to make sure it is actually representing that area in your foundry quests.

say1o · January 2014

If using a prefab or existing dungeon map for example, one should try and remodel it to look and feel like a different place. I would say reusing maps in the same way it was originally is taboo. It is all to easy to switch it up by simply going backwards even.

I like to make new routes and big enough changes that it becomes hard to tell if it is a reused map or my own creation from scratch. Looking at your map sorta ruins that feel but not many look at the map unless lost or confused.

angrysprite · January 2014

The poll if flawed: it's missing the fourth choice: "It really just shouldn't matter at all".

And this is my position on the subject. There are times when a "prefabricated" map is most useful, for example: time savings when the author really wants to focus on story and other things (especially outdoor maps). The prefabs are also great for helping with the creative process itself as they provide a lot of inspiration in many cases.

Yet, also the custom-maps are fine. But there are times when to choose to create a new map from scratch. For example, in the second quest of my campaign, I need my "Black Keep" to be a very large, but very, very straight (and I mean dead-straight) hallway from the entrance all the way to the inner sanctum (yes: one straight, really, really long hallway). To do that I had to create a custom map. But the first part of that quest was getting to the mountain ridge where the entrance is: that require a prefab map. Of course those who frown on prefabs will likely frown on my dead-straight, uncreative hallway (but that's the point: making it dead-straight was my specific creative choice - and helps it feel like you're actually going deep into the mountain.)

I understand the OP question. But in short it really shouldn't matter to players at all. And if you decorate a prefab map well enough, the player will rarely recognize it from the Cryptic original. In other words: we should never allow the map itself to be part of our judgement regarding the enjoyment factor of anyone's Foundry Quest.

-just my too sense, your mileage will vary-

queenzul · January 2014

Thanks sprite and everyone else.

That's exactly the kind of feedback I was hoping for. I fell in love with a few outdoor prefab maps, and I really like to focus on encounters, npcs, and story. I am sure I'll get negative reviews from some folks, but I wanted to make sure this wasn't totally taboo.

gornonthecob · January 2014

It's amazing at how unique you can make a prefab map look by changing the sky, adding some fog, corning off an area and detailing it the way you want. I used an area from the chasm in my latest map, and with these simple changes, you'd think you were in the core of the planet.

ladykathleen55 · January 2014

I actually like to run a quest and try to figure out which map that person used and what changes they made to it.

chinspinner · January 2014

I prefer new and unique maps, simply because the pre-made maps become a little dull and repetitive after you have played them a few times. However, there is nothing worse than a very poorly designed unique map with limited decoration i.e. the flat outdoor map with a few houses plonked on it and tree clusters around the perimeter- I have seen that too many times and it never looks good.

angrysprite · January 2014

ladykathleen55 wrote: »

I actually like to run a quest and try to figure out which map that person used and what changes they made to it.

Ditto. This can be fun, too. The simple fact is that there are elitists (who really aren't deserving of the self-proclamation) who will poo-poo a quest simply because it uses a prefab map. The truth is: using a little creativity can turn some prefab maps into completely new and different experiences. Others (mostly the indoors stuff) just can;t be changed-up that much because of left-over props (props created by Cryptic that were never removed before making the map available in foundry).

But even those are okay as long as you can convincingly 'describe' the location. Just change it up as much as you can and allow your creative juices to flow freely. Hell, half the fun in the prefabs are turning them into something never seen before - and they allow you to focus on that change (set dressing and all that).

Customs are a LOT of work, so the debs have added the auto-populate tool, (set dressing) but that only works on interiors and only on rooms (not hallways). So either way: you have the choice. I never, ever 'dock' anyone for using prefab map. I based my judgement on everything else creative use of encounters, rather than just plopping them there and they stand in a group with there thumbs up their as... er, you get the idea.

I know there are a lot of player who prefer the pew-pew aspect of Neverwinter. I'm in the camp of story-lovers. And it does;t have to be a grand opus of a story, either. Just give me , as a player, good motivation for being there and wanting to complete the goal you've set. Here's the hard part: striking the elusive well-balanced quest that appeals strongly to both camps.

For this reason, you always will get a few one-star pointless reviews. As long as the majority are three-stars or higher: consider your quest a definite success.

melinden · January 2014

The quest I just published gave me a good reason to try out making a fully custom interior and exterior to see what the fuss was about. The increase to the work hours was massive. Sometimes it really would be the better (or only option) but I don't feel that the work/payoff equation was enough to demand it every time or even often.

I would also warn new authors away from it as I think many would be frustrated and burned out if they tried it as their first effort. The learning curve on Foundry can be pretty steep and having new authors learn it and enjoy making quests is a critical part of keeping the community vibrant.

kcilonnl · January 2014

There's not really a ton of poll options, but as I prefer unique and creative maps, I chose the first option.
More accurately if you just use 1 pre-fab map, pop a few encounters and details in, you likely wont get a good review from me, especially if your details aren't aligned right (chains popping up from the floor below for example) I wont give you a 1, but I wont be giving you a 5 either, a 3 with some notes about misplaced details is more likely.
if you at least custom made _one_ map, even if it's just a unique room/house set up that will save you from my impression that you just put together your foundry as fast as you could to get it done, which may just be your first foundry joy or laziness.
I've played 6 characters to 60 and a double of CW to play around with Master of Flame at 55, and I don't want to run through the Sanatorium again with nothing to differentiate it, if you'd changed the details, added walls made it completely different I wont mark down for that.

Using pre-made maps - overdone or ok?

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