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quick analysis of PvP patch: It is a buff for GWF
gannicsgladiator
Member Posts: 413 Bounty Hunter
Ok here it goes:
Before update of shadowmantle, best set PvP for GWF was titan/impo because of the extra HP/deflect/regen.
Since the new update, with artefacts/boons giving a lot of regen, GWFs were able to use others sets just switching acessories/swords. and gain more offensive stats.
a lot of people are using valiant+titan 2/2, but some like me, and few others saw the promise and the utility of the Glory Heroic Set. because its nice offensive stats and the amazing 4/4 options of healing.
I have not lost for anyone on 1 x 1 with this set.
the only time I lost for another good gwf using the 2/2 valiant/ but I was using destroyer tree because I was Playing more PvE, and when I fought this same guy using sentinel I had no problem at all before.
so for me that glory set works pretty good.
Now what scares me is that it heals a lot, and it gives tenacity, the new pvp options as well.
My concern is that, this patch is limiting the gear choices for everybody, but the only class that won't have big losses is GWF since the amazing Glory set.
I can't see this update other than more buff for GWF.
even the critical debuff will actually be part of a buff for gwf, since they will be harder to kill, and they will still do a lot critical hits because their already high critical rate.
Before update of shadowmantle, best set PvP for GWF was titan/impo because of the extra HP/deflect/regen.
Since the new update, with artefacts/boons giving a lot of regen, GWFs were able to use others sets just switching acessories/swords. and gain more offensive stats.
a lot of people are using valiant+titan 2/2, but some like me, and few others saw the promise and the utility of the Glory Heroic Set. because its nice offensive stats and the amazing 4/4 options of healing.
I have not lost for anyone on 1 x 1 with this set.
the only time I lost for another good gwf using the 2/2 valiant/ but I was using destroyer tree because I was Playing more PvE, and when I fought this same guy using sentinel I had no problem at all before.
so for me that glory set works pretty good.
Now what scares me is that it heals a lot, and it gives tenacity, the new pvp options as well.
My concern is that, this patch is limiting the gear choices for everybody, but the only class that won't have big losses is GWF since the amazing Glory set.
I can't see this update other than more buff for GWF.
even the critical debuff will actually be part of a buff for gwf, since they will be harder to kill, and they will still do a lot critical hits because their already high critical rate.
Dovahkiin Gannicus, GWF Sentinel- Enemy Team Guild
Gannicus Destroyer, GWF Destroyer retired
Kate Beckinsale NB DC, Link NB GF
"There is only one way to be a champion..., Never ...ing lose"
Gannicus Destroyer, GWF Destroyer retired
Kate Beckinsale NB DC, Link NB GF
"There is only one way to be a champion..., Never ...ing lose"
Post edited by gannicsgladiator on
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I run into a well geared cw one day as gwf. He is at least full rank 8 and perfects, that is just a estimate, 3 purple artifacts. And my gwf is 10k gs,1 green water and only 680 regen with soulforged and a perfefct feytouched. I am able to duel him and go win 1 out of 3. One win from him is kind of a cheat from his end since he charges up daily before fight so he instantly combo and daily me on that one. The other win he got he has to blow everything(soulforged artifact) and kill me when he has 10% HP. And I am a pretty new gwf myself, the cw aren't that pro either but still it shows it is hard to take down a GWF even when you have such huge gear gap, providing same gear lvl I see no chance that CW can even win one from me.
I have been testing the glory set it actually feel really decent and solid. Especially in the new patch everyone is harder to kill which means more unstoppable proc, and that means more heal from feat and set bonus, consider the regen nerf and healing nerf this % HP heal becomes quite strong imo. Only thing I am not sure is if the healing depressing apply on those heal as well.
Daria - Dwarf Sentinel GWF (mistaken for Halfling a lot)
Karia (aka "The Pug") - Human Combat HR
Kayd - Human Conqueror GF - Retired
This will make that set even MORE effective. While I'm not sure if these changes are going to strike live, I am already grinding out my GG coins on my second GWF as we speak. Better to be ahead of the game.
"D*mn wizards," said Morik the Rogue.
Learn what a GWF and GF really are: The History of Fighters
First I'm no GWF guru, I'm only sitting at 13.5k gs but:
Some builds need to be more specific to handle a GWF it seems. Usually a CW who isn't loaded out with his CC's isn't going to do too well against a GWF. Also, it seems most players tend to blow CC abilities regardless of a GWF being unstoppable too....
Itemization is another fault from most classes: the glass cannon mentality seems to be the platform of qq, so they wonder why it is they get man handled by melee. If they really want to do well, then a pvp build will look differently from a pve build.
Your friend with perfects doesn't mean too much to me. What perfects is he slotting? which tier set does he have equipped? What abilities is he using? What artifacts.... etc
I'm not going to say that CW's dont need some changes... but I sense it isn't a case of legitimate investigation to issues, but more about one CW build not performing well. Not every class build can be viable in pvp absolutely. If it were, it's broken. I think some players just want to force their build to do better, because 'dey want to pwnzors' without any trial and error.
GWF's have an easier time with a few classes, yes, - ranger and CW. A GF will kick my butt all the way into sundown. If I altered my build a bit, I could probably do much better against a GF, but suck with handling a ranger and CW....
I guess people don't understand the trade-offs in this game... or dont want to accept them. Regen is another one of those stats people don't understand, if you are stacking that, you probably are going to have less HP's, less recovery, and less arp. So you're damage is going to suffer. Sure you can survive longer, hold points better, but once you get focused, you are done (assuming equal GS).
GS matching is mostly the problem, not this minutia of mechanics to fix: he did, she did, they did, this much and it hurt.
While my experiences outside of GWF are limited to part-time experiments and leveling only, I see the balance they can play upon. And I've read the guides, where players like Kaelac tout the 'only' viable DC option (mind you, I copied his build and it works, but I doubt it's the only one).
This is more a hindrance cause by bad players, in many cases, than bad game design. That said, sentinel GWF's still stand strong and popular in PvP, and even I would argue we are the kings at the moment. The way regen and lifesteal work seem to be the biggest factors in our percieved invincibility.
Sure, I've taken losses to well-played characters of ALL classes. HR's hitting me just right with that snare and working their camo over on me. TR's catching me while I'm just dropped unstoppable and finished my encounter rotation. CW's kiting my *** all the way up the stairs in Arena.
But the current edge is in my favor.
"D*mn wizards," said Morik the Rogue.
Learn what a GWF and GF really are: The History of Fighters
But this is another conversation. Sorry to derail.
Daria - Dwarf Sentinel GWF (mistaken for Halfling a lot)
Karia (aka "The Pug") - Human Combat HR
Kayd - Human Conqueror GF - Retired
The currently proposed 'group surgery by hammer' approach isn't going to fix our 'imbalance'. If GWF is really the main aim to this patch (which i suspect from the moderator's tone - in the official tenacity thread), then the grand notion of 'tweaking' should be considered: altering a bit of damage output, healing.... see where it goes... tweak some more - the classic way of balancing....
The healing debuff is pretty critical on GWF, compared to say TR, who can avoid being hit altogether. GWF need to be hit to gain power, which means they will always be debuffed. The temp HP reduction is an awful nerf to unstoppable (and the pvp arti). Both of which needed it. But GWF have only ever been OP against people who never knew how to deal with them, and until they are nerfed to the ground there will always be people who claim they are OP.
Daria - Dwarf Sentinel GWF (mistaken for Halfling a lot)
Karia (aka "The Pug") - Human Combat HR
Kayd - Human Conqueror GF - Retired
hmm.... if isn't flat and its rated like you said it is, it's a big nerf all around for melee. Essentially, ranged will get more time to spam damage ftw, while melee will be hitting for a similar category of damage - only when they close the gap. Then compound it with the healing nerf, and GWF's are ensured to be at a lower footing with ranged classes.
Well, i went straight for the heroic duelist since i reached lvl 60 (saved glory for it, and it's been my PvP gear since then). I went for it as a hybrid cause, without the high HP of a full con build, it was my best option to get both offensive power and healing to couple with the bit of regeneration i got from rings/ neck/ belt. It was 300 (i have 30k hp on my hybrid) healing per second for 4-8 seconds with every unstoppable. But was not Worth it for a full constitution build.
Now it is a flat value per second for 10 seconds. For my hybrid it's better. Don't know for full tank builds.
So sad but so true.
May be they will add more PvP sets in the future. Else, i really think that almost every player will go for Glory set for PvP + T2 sets for PvE, like i do now.
On the other hand, it's also true that going for the PvP full set, you take away the HP, defense, regeneration and deflection bonuses given by the PvE armors combo.
What they plan on doing now and for the future, is to make people go for PvP sets only in PvP, and PvE sets for dungeons/ quests, and tweak PvP sets to make it so that fights are longer but, at the same time, stats are balanced to avoid unbalanced builds, either too tanky (GWFs sentinels tanking entire teams) or too aggressive (TRs one-shotting CWs).
They probably thought players would be more tactic-friendly, but all they got in return was a constant nerf-request from a big part of players who don't even try to understand how to build up strategies to take advantage of specific weaknesses of each class/ build.
After this PvP-PvE gear differentiation, may be they will go for dual specs so that PvE players can go PvP with a proper build+gear and stop complaining.
But i know they will still fail to understand how the "action" part of the combat works, keep sucking at PvP and then complain on the forums. Some things like outhinking a permastealth TR, focus DPS a GWF tank, run into a Group to mess up the aim of an enemy focusing you, or dodge efficiently the Attacks coming from melee classes, must be learned through personal skills, and there's no patch to magically give that to players who expect everything to be obtained by the simple press of a button.
and if they do, do they play like us? do they know what we know? the changes we players make on their game?
because sometimes feels like they do this:
"let's test gwf x rogue on pvp"
gwf = full strenght full dex, avatar of wars, full azures def slots, full power. destroyer path
rogue = full dps too.
gwf die in 2 hits
"ok let's buff that"
Gannicus Destroyer, GWF Destroyer retired
Kate Beckinsale NB DC, Link NB GF
"There is only one way to be a champion..., Never ...ing lose"
i am not sure if i can call my gwf "tank" anymore. since all dps i got from the last patch.
I guess I became a hybrid.
i always liked that set, but for pvp before patch it was not so good as titan/imposing because the loss of regen/deflect altogether.
but with the boons and artefacts adding regen it became good. and the healing>>>the deflect lost.
so far it has been doing great, and I haven't lost to any other gwf setup while I am sentinel spec.
it heals pretty good and do decent dmg.
Gannicus Destroyer, GWF Destroyer retired
Kate Beckinsale NB DC, Link NB GF
"There is only one way to be a champion..., Never ...ing lose"
gwf will have an extra healing tool compared to rest.
and i wonder if the cc resistence be really annoying, it might be worth switch from temple of the fallen back to bravery for that extra deflect.
Gannicus Destroyer, GWF Destroyer retired
Kate Beckinsale NB DC, Link NB GF
"There is only one way to be a champion..., Never ...ing lose"
The cw: perfect vorpal perfect barkshield with 1600 regen stats plus HV set. pretty standard if you ask me. And he has at least 3 purple artifacts, and using raven as main.
Shard on tab ray of enfeeblement chill strike choke, he switch to repel once. pretty standard cw stuff. It was a legit duel. I play all classes and I main a cw so I know a cw if he is clueless or actually know stuff.
And plz don't tell me you lose to a GF as GWF in a duel, unless you fighting the top tier one. And I can name them all. If you need to change your build to become better to certain class there is something wrong with your build at the first place, GWF eat CW and GF in Mod 2 unless you fighting the top tier ones you could be taken down if they play better than you.