Armor Penetration 24%

focusman · December 2013

So as everyone knows Armor Penetration is needed to ignore the defense of enemies, in PvP as in Dungeons. But I was wondering, at the moment i have exactly 24% armor pen which is needed for elite mobs. (i focus pve, pvp is nice but not my priority)

But......we debuff, a dc debuffs, a gwf debuffs...all with lowering defense. Is 24% then really needed because a mob gets debuffed so much?

Maybe I miss something, but couldnt find a post about armpen in combination with debuffs. I dont care about solo quests etc..CN thats it.

xelliz · December 2013

it is my understanding that arp is pure damage buff. So if you already have the 24% before any debuffs, you just gain more and more dmg as debuffs are applied, so most people want to negate defense prior to any debuffs being added

cenomx · December 2013

focusman wrote: »

So as everyone knows Armor Penetration is needed to ignore the defense of enemies, in PvP as in Dungeons. But I was wondering, at the moment i have exactly 24% armor pen which is needed for elite mobs. (i focus pve, pvp is nice but not my priority)

But......we debuff, a dc debuffs, a gwf debuffs...all with lowering defense. Is 24% then really needed because a mob gets debuffed so much?

Maybe I miss something, but couldnt find a post about armpen in combination with debuffs. I dont care about solo quests etc..CN thats it.

You're right. There's a lot of debuffs, for example: High Vizier (-1350 def) ~ Student of the Sword (-15% def) ~ Since defense wont go to negative values as mistigation does, it might be not necessary having 24% arpen. But to be honest, it will max your damage output. Since not always the mobs are debuffed. I'm sticking myself @ 24% ~ And I really felt the difference between 24% and 15% ~ I tried that 'cause me and some guild mates was discussing about it couple days ago.

I think for Renegade, for example, 24% is sooo needed. Mostly times you're having a burst damage Rotation... Chill Strike on Tab, Shard, Sudden Storm, Steal Time ~ You mostly going to hit them first.

For Thaum, maybe not, you're gonna hit 3 chilling cloud to apply Frozen Power Transfer, you're gonna use CoI to reduce their Mistigation, and then, start your most powerfull rotation. You see? The mobs have time to get debuffed. Just thinking, I am Renegade and 24% really good.

focusman · December 2013

Thanks for replies:

- Armor Penetration is indd the best power buff there is.
- I am thaum build
- I run cn with 1 DC, 2/3 CW's, 1/2 GWF's.
- Depending on DC but some use Divine Glow, gwf debuff, cw's high vizier.
- We use singularity more so gwf can smash adds like they are butter.

So there is actually always some kind of debuff. I am thinking about taking 19-20% because, as said, defense isnt going into negative and Mobs are always debuffed + 9 stacks of arcane dmg from Steal Time before hitting with shard/sudden storm. And not to forget that shard also gives 10% debuff with the feat.

vorphied · December 2013

Armor Penetration will not cause you to deal damage in excess of what the target would take if it had 0 mitigation, but other effects like High Vizier, High Prophet, Bronzewood, and Plaguefire will debuff a target into negative mitigation regardless, so I'd say ArP is still worth it.

Maybe it's clearest to specify that ArP ignores mitigation values, while many debuffs effect an outright damage increase to the target, so they are both relevant. Would others agree with this way of stating it?

pers3phone · December 2013

It's not "needed" to have 24%, it's just that there's no other stat you can stack to increase your damage more on certain targets, until you have capped ArP. As far as I know you, you'd want even more DPS

So probably the best compromise in your situation is get enough ArP for trash/elites, since this is 90% of a dungeon run, and beyond that, personal preference. I still go up to full "boss" ArP, simply because I need it in PvP as well, and this is how I balanced my boons/gear/enchants. If you only care for PvE big numbers, just get enough ArP for trash and then stack some more Power, as I believe you already have lots of crit&recovery

By the way: 24% is for boss, not elites.

From grimah's guide:

"24% for PvE bosses which is 2530 other elites at 22% which is 2230"

So you would want 22% ArP, and add Power instead of those 2%, as you will already deal enough damage to Draco, and to be honest, CW job is more of a "clear/CC the nasty elites" then "DPS draco" (of course, ideally you do both, not always happening...).

fondlez · December 2013

Resistance Ignored and its rating Armor Penetration only affect the target's mitigation for the source of player damage up to zero mitigation.

All debuffs in the game,

1. are calculated after and therefore stack with Resistance Ignored
2. whether they state "Defense reduction" or "mitigation" reduction, are flat damage increases. This means they occur regardless of whether the target has mitigation and they are fixed percentage increases.

Hence, Resistance Ignored/Armor Penetration is never wasted against a target with mitigation (up to zero mitigation).

Note the above says nothing about what value of Resistance Ignored to stack per class, build or playstyle.

focusman · December 2013

Thnx again for all the replies. I i will just test it both the 22% and 24%. But to be honest i dont think it realy matters because this all about details.

kozi001 · December 2013

I don't think 24% is needed for the whole CN run.

I am not even sure that 20-22% elites/brutes are in CN like MC's totemists and fomorian witches.
Red wizards? Witches? I think they are only 18% leader types. Maybe the two Jelly cubes.

I have a ring with Dark in it for the boss fights and apart from that my arp is only 18-20%.
When I put 2-300 stats from Arp to Power my overall dmg increased.

Armor Penetration 24%

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