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Fighter Area Attacks: Breakdowns
zardoz007
Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users Posts: 2 Arc User
GF
http://i.imgur.com/uhJQO20.jpg
GWF
http://i.imgur.com/kQqvWC6.jpg
It has been widely discussed on these forums and I have seen it many times in game about GWF's damage compared to GF Damage. When those damage dealing GF's come out of the woodworks they impress and awe players and make GWF players feel insecure. So I'm going to go over in detail why this happens and where exactly GWF is lacking in AOE damage moves. The classes supposed specialty.
Above are links to the Classes area moves base stats, and with some examples of moves I use on my fighters with my highly geared toons. Now pay attention to the damage listings of Frontline surge for both classes. Do the math and you can clearly see with minal numbers a GWF deals 43% more damage on his frontline surge. Than the GF. Both are equipped with Formian Fabled Weapons and no other gear. so a GWF Greatswords gets his damage that much higher than a GF with the exact same move and no other modifications.
Now take a Look at GWF's not So Fast and GF's Enforced threat. Base stats the damage of these two 5 target cap attacks are nearly identical. So why does Enforced threat deal equal damage with a longsword equipped, why is its area almost three times the size of Not so fast and still players will argue that marking is a much better additional effect than a melee power that deals slow. Now throw in that damage of Not so fast is reduced by # of targets hit and you are really scratching your head at the design flaws to this one move. So either Enforced threat is too Stong or Not so Fast is to weak.
With what I've seen of Other classes encounters Not so Fast is obviously too weak. First it is the only encounter area damage in the game that has reduced damage per target it. This is definitely one aspect of the move that needs to be removed. And the damage of the move could use a 43% increase so as a move it can at least equal the damage of Enforced threat if not the area and utility of the GF comparison.
These are completely reasonable requests for changes to these moves I have seen on these boards requests for much greater changes than this but you cant dispute the facts when you look at the numbers.
Lets look at more numbers.
Look at the bottom examples of Not so Fast and Enforced Threat of each classes wearing proper gear. And now Enforced threat is dealing double the damage of Not so Fast. This is of course due to the fact that conquerer GF's get huge bonuses to damage from having double power. But double power is not double damage and it is only one factor into why this move is doing so much more damage.
It is important for GWF players to separate themselves from GFs by being able to deal more damage. The GF class has as much or even more potential to be a damage dealer than the GWF and this is not right. GF is also far from being an overpowered class. It is pretty weak and undesirable as classes go as well. So obviously GWF needs a damage buff to at least a few select moves. And a significant damage buff as well.
http://i.imgur.com/uhJQO20.jpg
GWF
http://i.imgur.com/kQqvWC6.jpg
It has been widely discussed on these forums and I have seen it many times in game about GWF's damage compared to GF Damage. When those damage dealing GF's come out of the woodworks they impress and awe players and make GWF players feel insecure. So I'm going to go over in detail why this happens and where exactly GWF is lacking in AOE damage moves. The classes supposed specialty.
Above are links to the Classes area moves base stats, and with some examples of moves I use on my fighters with my highly geared toons. Now pay attention to the damage listings of Frontline surge for both classes. Do the math and you can clearly see with minal numbers a GWF deals 43% more damage on his frontline surge. Than the GF. Both are equipped with Formian Fabled Weapons and no other gear. so a GWF Greatswords gets his damage that much higher than a GF with the exact same move and no other modifications.
Now take a Look at GWF's not So Fast and GF's Enforced threat. Base stats the damage of these two 5 target cap attacks are nearly identical. So why does Enforced threat deal equal damage with a longsword equipped, why is its area almost three times the size of Not so fast and still players will argue that marking is a much better additional effect than a melee power that deals slow. Now throw in that damage of Not so fast is reduced by # of targets hit and you are really scratching your head at the design flaws to this one move. So either Enforced threat is too Stong or Not so Fast is to weak.
With what I've seen of Other classes encounters Not so Fast is obviously too weak. First it is the only encounter area damage in the game that has reduced damage per target it. This is definitely one aspect of the move that needs to be removed. And the damage of the move could use a 43% increase so as a move it can at least equal the damage of Enforced threat if not the area and utility of the GF comparison.
These are completely reasonable requests for changes to these moves I have seen on these boards requests for much greater changes than this but you cant dispute the facts when you look at the numbers.
Lets look at more numbers.
Look at the bottom examples of Not so Fast and Enforced Threat of each classes wearing proper gear. And now Enforced threat is dealing double the damage of Not so Fast. This is of course due to the fact that conquerer GF's get huge bonuses to damage from having double power. But double power is not double damage and it is only one factor into why this move is doing so much more damage.
It is important for GWF players to separate themselves from GFs by being able to deal more damage. The GF class has as much or even more potential to be a damage dealer than the GWF and this is not right. GF is also far from being an overpowered class. It is pretty weak and undesirable as classes go as well. So obviously GWF needs a damage buff to at least a few select moves. And a significant damage buff as well.
Post edited by zardoz007 on
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Comments
Well if you really wanted GWF to stand apart from GF then you would also be saying that that GF need a boost to damage resistance. Since right now GWF are better tanks in every way because of their ability to leach stupid amounts of life.
Lol, I leech stupid amounts of life as my GF, because i do as much damage as GWF's with just as much lifesteal. Don't assume because more GWF players go lifesteal that other classes can't do it either in fact HR and CW would leech even more life than either fighter.
Did I ever mention how much I love your posts Zardoz it,s awesome being able to slap the devs in the face with undisputable numbers can you go over how to improve the GF as well, because all these GF's that are GWF haters are gunna flame you not matter what do, cuz they have yet to realizre how to get GF to do everything a GWF can do but only better.
And GWF's are not bette rtanks than GF, no one I know will ever say lets get a GWF to tank instead of a GF. GF's are Kings of threat hands down. And if you know how to use block properly you can get alot better use out of it than mindless unstoppable. Take less damage and never run out of block meter. It's called SIDESTEP!
one is dps.
Only this one move? I'd say the design flaws of the entire class.
You are half-way correct.
Both are defenders.
"D*mn wizards," said Morik the Rogue.
Learn what a GWF and GF really are: The History of Fighters
brutal damage.
And Katboze I do realize there are many many many other examples of the GWF powers being subpar to other classes. But I think it is best to deal with this issue one power at a time. Because that is how fixes and buffs are handled. One power at a time. If we are to ever get the GWF out of the 5th wheel hero archtype this is the way to do it.
If you agree with this one breakdown of Not so Fast. Say so. Hype it up and the GWF might get a buff. Maybe. And if it does it probably wont be anything close to what is suggested here. Even though it is logical and many players already feel GWF area damage encounters are really low for an AOE centric class.
GWFs most definitely do not need a buff. They just got buffed with mod 2. Their AoE damage is just fine especially considering their survivability.
I personally would like to see more damage or utility attached to Not So Fast, Punishing Charge, Reaping Strike and Come and Get It. I cannot even claim to know all the ins-and-outs of GWF, but I play them almost elusively (over 98% of the time). These are the powers that I completely ignore on all my builds, because I just can't make them do anything ... noticeable, I guess. They feel underpowered, and can be replaced with another position.
For example, why do I want to slow a limited area around me? We're not talking about a 50% speed decrease, either. Better to simply use Takedown, Frontline Surge, or even Avalanche of Steel. Better damage, and better applicable CC.
They've really buffed our overall AOE damage, so I can now rely on moves like Wicked Strike to tear up those adds near me. Spinning Strike just takes up a slot that some better, more damaging move can fit.
"D*mn wizards," said Morik the Rogue.
Learn what a GWF and GF really are: The History of Fighters
In this instance, particularly Not So Fast, I don't believe the focus should be on GWF having poor AOE damage. I think it should be about making every power useful and powerful in their own right. No short bus candidates.
I approve of this with ALL classes. We all have useless powers that just sit there. We all have powers that need addressed and brought up to speed.
Not so Fast is one of those.
"D*mn wizards," said Morik the Rogue.
Learn what a GWF and GF really are: The History of Fighters
Then why can't the GWF's get any groups why do I still see GWF in teams that I pug into deal less than half the damage of my GF.
GWF's got buffed yeah but CW's got Fixed. CW's can now crit with Arcane Singularity and there Armor pen works on all moves now... These non-buffs buffed the CW alot more than anything the GWF got. What did the GWF get again bonus damage to WMS after its animation cancle got killed? Does not sound at all like a buff to me. In fact it's the normal GWF buff. Kill something really big and give them some HAMSTER back like what happened to Slam.
So imma go out on a limb here and Agree with Lobo.
Not so Fast is NOT SO GREAT
holy HAMSTER I agree with Lobo.