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Tenebrous enchants, just as effective, "fixes" good for nothing

pers3phonepers3phone Banned Users, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 0 Arc User
edited December 2013 in PvE Discussion
- procs from Briartwine
- procs from Fey Thistle feat


Really devs? How do I "dodge" these, hmmm? Since you made them respect a dodge.

Case GWF with Fey Thistle against CW: I shoot stuff at it, he has 45% deflect, sooner rather than later he WILL deflect and I get 8K unavoidable damage. Nice ;)

Did I mention Briartwine? He doesn't need to deflect ANYTHING, his armor will proc them ALL on me. He doesn't even have to move. And I take another 8K of unavoidable damage.

People kept saying this since test shard, but no, you went live with this idiotic HAMSTER again which is just as good as ever against CWs and most TRs. I said "hey, I'll wait until live until saying anything, maybe they change them for real".

Your "fixes" of the tenes are useless guys. They are not bringing any balance. These things are just as overpowered as ever.

About dodging them... how the hell should I know when to? Make a list with all the GTE guys on the realm and when they start towards me, I blink desperately away? They have no animation, no sound, no nothing to know when to avoid.

Also GWFs can now build offensively and with ArP since they have enough regen from artifact... on top of their tenes and huge defensive stats.
Post edited by pers3phone on

Comments

  • gannicsgladiatorgannicsgladiator Member Posts: 413 Bounty Hunter
    edited December 2013
    "- procs from Briartwine
    - procs from Fey Thistle feat"
    should i complain that bilethorn, plaguefire,deep gash, all dots weapon enchants also trigger tenes as well?
    any form of damage will proc them, because that is what triggers them.


    i am still using tenes, but they are not that "strong" anymore.
    any kind of hit should proc them in my opinion. nerf more tenes will really make it useless...

    my tenes don't go through DR anymore, and armor pen does not influenciate to make the hit higher, except dr debuffs. you really want to make tenes so useless to the point where ABSOLUTELY nobody will use them anymore? what is your point?
    because the way they are nerfed, so many people had to quit using them, and they hit funny on GFs and GWFs. especially when you lost some health.

    please, don't nerf it anymore. the only kind of "balance" i see by nerfing it more than it was nerfed is to make the enchantment beyond useless and only and alone used for "refining".
    so please, don't. deal with it, use skills with less dots, play smart against GWF. (i see people CW using the tornado on me when I have tenes, this is just hilarious"
    on battlefield you have to adapt different situations and gameplays. Do not demand nerfs so just you become comfortable fighting on the same game style every time without having to push yourself against different challenges.

    About your second statement of how gwf can build more armor pen in defensive builds thanks to artefact, do I need to remind that it is not exclusive for gwfs, but all classes right?
    you also have the same option, you can change sets, builds, feats, whatever based on the artefats of your choice to get more many different stats. so don't make it sound like "only gwfs" are getting benefited from artifacts.
    as you said how artifacts benefiting GWF with more off stats without losing much defensive stats, did you try to do the same thing to fix that?
    experiment use the proper artefacts, gear/accessory combinations and build yourself more deflect/dr, or hp. simple.

    actually because of the nerf of Tenes not make it go through DR anymore, the char that most benefit from them right now is CW because of their high potential of debuffing DR. you shouldn't be complaining, especially with artifacts recovering others offensive stats you might give up for adding tenes.
    Dovahkiin Gannicus, GWF Sentinel- Enemy Team Guild
    Gannicus Destroyer, GWF Destroyer retired
    Kate Beckinsale NB DC, Link NB GF
    "There is only one way to be a champion..., Never ...ing lose"
  • interventionxeinterventionxe Member Posts: 16 Arc User
    edited December 2013
    "WAI"

    10/char
  • pers3phonepers3phone Banned Users, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited December 2013
    @gannicus:

    I did NOT ask for any nerf whatsoever.

    I explained why tenes are still a dumb enchant:

    - they proc from MY damage, not yours, I damage you, you don't even see me, I take 8K damage, how stupid is that?
    - they proc on me while I didn't get hit by anything, your armor enchant procced/you deflected something
    - I cannot avoid them, there is NOTHING for me to know when they proc so I can at least try to dodge

    I can go on and on but there's no point.

    The reason for the post? To let devs know their "fix" is NOT working and dumb, just like the enchants themselves, which should have never-ever seen the live game.

    As for CW using CoI on you, are we supposed to remember every guy with tenes in the game? Or are we supposed to change spells each time I see one tene guy from the list? With what should I debuff your already huge defenses so I might have a small shance to damage you properly? Even CoI+RoE+HV+Perfect Vorpal+2200 ArP is still not good enough for a CW to take down a GWF like you in a decent time frame (not that any CW is actually able to be a decent threat to you BTW... whatever their gear, I saw you playing and you're awesome :)
  • bendalekbendalek Member Posts: 1,983 Arc User
    edited December 2013
    When I have a problem with an enemy attack type in game, whether it be active or passive ... I try and work out a tactic to offset it, rather than ask the devs to remove said attack ... Just sayin'
    Is it finally a T5/U/T6 KDF Science Ship?
    tacofangs wrote: »
    Nope, just a McKrenim Happy Meal toy.
    IMPERIAL AUSMONAUTS - STO Klingon & Rom-Klink Fleet.

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  • pers3phonepers3phone Banned Users, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited December 2013
    bendalek wrote: »
    When I have a problem with an enemy attack type in game, whether it be active or passive ... I try and work out a tactic to offset it, rather than ask the devs to remove said attack ... Just sayin'

    It is too late to remove them now. They introduced them with no testing and it shows. Keep in mind, AGAIN, I never asked for removal or even nerfs, what the hell.

    I am posting because the said "fixes" to tenes do NOT work and they are exactly as OP as before - against the classes that are most vulnerable to them in the 1st place.

    All that "fixes" did was to make naturally tanky chars such as G(W)Fs not having to worry about them so much any longer. These classes were the least affected by tene bursts n the first place.
  • ortzhyortzhy Member Posts: 1,103 Bounty Hunter
    edited December 2013
    @pers.. you are wrong!! Tenes are working perfectly for TR's, now with smart play and minimum counting skills they can avoid all tene procs while picking the best time to proc theirs! Ofc they are fixed:)

    Pvp just doesnt matter, they dont care! For your sanity sake just stop queuing :(
  • lwedarlwedar Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 790 Arc User
    edited December 2013
    From what I remember, the dev's said this was the first pass at balancing them. They were gonna take a look and see if they needed more changes. I'd imagine that they will look at these again before the pvp heavy module comes out.
    "we all love this game and want it to thrive"
  • pando83pando83 Member Posts: 2,564 Arc User
    edited December 2013
    Mmmm... i can see the point of the OP.
    Among the nerfs to tenes, other than them being affected by DR, it was also made so that they could be dodged. If undodgeable damage procs them, one of the "nerfs" become useless.

    It's also true, however, that with new artifacts you can, for example, increase DR by increasing defense (for CWs or TRs) and deflect.
    Also, if someone uses briartwine in PvP, it means he's giving up on more defensive armor enchants, making him more squishy and easy to kill (if a sentinel gives up SF for briartwine, you don't have to worry about him coming back to life).

    You can also use the power of your artifacts to counter tenes (blood raven artifact or water of hel'azad to recover from the spike damage).
  • ladysylvialadysylvia Member Posts: 946 Bounty Hunter
    edited December 2013
    I don't check what the OP have as issue. They proc before from DoTs and other damage abilities.
    The CW is a squishy class so you can't Q.Q about that Tene kill you. Tene was OP against tank chars due DR ignore. 5k+ burst is one ability and no real skill use?
  • pers3phonepers3phone Banned Users, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited December 2013
    pando83 wrote: »
    Mmmm... i can see the point of the OP.
    Among the nerfs to tenes, other than them being affected by DR, it was also made so that they could be dodged. If undodgeable damage procs them, one of the "nerfs" become useless.

    Also, if someone uses briartwine in PvP, it means he's giving up on more defensive armor enchants, making him more squishy and easy to kill (if a sentinel gives up SF for briartwine, you don't have to worry about him coming back to life).

    - you don't NEED Briartwine, but it's cool to have. Those that have it and tenes usually have a SF as well to switch as needed...

    Truth is, however, you only need Fey Thistle boon. At almost 50% Deflect, and a CW Ray of Frost/at will fast ticks, it takes but 2 seconds of you getting 7-9K of burst damage. Yeah, you can use an artifact, drink a potion.

    But - the GWF has even yet to start fighting you!!! He didn't even move - didn't use HIS potions, didn't use his at wills, encounters - ANYTHING. You as a CW, again, start at a huge disadvantage.
    ladysylvia wrote: »
    I don't check what the OP have as issue. They proc before from DoTs and other damage abilities.
    The CW is a squishy class so you can't Q.Q about that Tene kill you. Tene was OP against tank chars due DR ignore. 5k+ burst is one ability and no real skill use?

    Not sure how can I respond to you. I feel bad I helped you test your SF back in the test shard for your attitude sucks.

    CW is a squishy class so what?!? Who is QQing?

    You know, it all come down to this:

    You, ladysylvia, have a GF. It has big DR. The devs partially fixed tenes so now YOU take reduced significantly damage.

    Because they work ok for YOU these days, it means they are OK. When they were broken against YOUR class as well, they were bad.

    But now since YOUR class deals with them easily - they are cool.

    I hope YOU can see the pattern.

    It all remains the same:

    - you cannot dodge them (how do I dodge a deflect?!?)
    - they take no skill to use as the person that has them did not push a single button to deal 8K of damage. They can AFK, and you hit them and take big damage.

    Cool? I don't think so.
  • gannicsgladiatorgannicsgladiator Member Posts: 413 Bounty Hunter
    edited December 2013
    pers3phone wrote: »
    @gannicus:

    I did NOT ask for any nerf whatsoever.

    I explained why tenes are still a dumb enchant:

    - they proc from MY damage, not yours, I damage you, you don't even see me, I take 8K damage, how stupid is that?
    - they proc on me while I didn't get hit by anything, your armor enchant procced/you deflected something
    - I cannot avoid them, there is NOTHING for me to know when they proc so I can at least try to dodge

    I can go on and on but there's no point.

    The reason for the post? To let devs know their "fix" is NOT working and dumb, just like the enchants themselves, which should have never-ever seen the live game.

    As for CW using CoI on you, are we supposed to remember every guy with tenes in the game? Or are we supposed to change spells each time I see one tene guy from the list? With what should I debuff your already huge defenses so I might have a small shance to damage you properly? Even CoI+RoE+HV+Perfect Vorpal+2200 ArP is still not good enough for a CW to take down a GWF like you in a decent time frame (not that any CW is actually able to be a decent threat to you BTW... whatever their gear, I saw you playing and you're awesome :)

    I think reflect is also a type of damage, and it is only applied if the guy give up soulforged or other better enchantment. so it is very fair that it triggers tene as well in my point of view, because if you pay attention to the numbers, the reflect damage can even be deflected...

    about the 5th sharandar boon, same thing. it is not even your damage on this case.
    tenes hurt cw yes, now a lot less because they don't go thro dodges or dr. try build more dr with the option of stacking more armor.

    I switch my skills every time I see a particular rogue or cw focusing me much during a match, or a gwf or a gf. For example, Roar is great when CWs/ or particulars Trs are chasing me, but the moment a GF or other GWF comes to the play, i switch it to another skill with more dps, like RS or IBS.
    adaptation is part of the gameplay. get hurt once, die, swith, and payback.

    regardless of how defense of gwf is high, it is not ever bad to try to stack those options. and on the good side, you will probably make Trs and other CWs defense negative. In that case, if you use tenes, tenes will do overdps.

    but I do agree with your last statment that it is not good enough to take care of a strong GWF. I believe GWFs are the nemesis of CW.
    My advice: avoid confronting gwfs on 1 x 1. to be honest any class should avoid it but a tanky GF, and maybe a DC, since they can stall and control the node from the GWF very easy. try to walk in group and work as debuff/dps support aiming on targets busy with your team, at the same time rotating and trying get out of sight.
    Not easy task I know. I do think CWs need to be buffed to be more fair in PvP tho.

    thank you about the compliment:-)
    Dovahkiin Gannicus, GWF Sentinel- Enemy Team Guild
    Gannicus Destroyer, GWF Destroyer retired
    Kate Beckinsale NB DC, Link NB GF
    "There is only one way to be a champion..., Never ...ing lose"
  • pers3phonepers3phone Banned Users, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited December 2013
    Not easy task I know. I do think CWs need to be buffed to be more fair in PvP tho.

    thank you about the compliment:-)

    Thank you for this acknowledgement.

    The compliment is well deserved.
  • godlysoul1godlysoul1 Member Posts: 293 Bounty Hunter
    edited December 2013
    Personally I have no idea why people would use tenes anymore for things like GWF. You can crit/hit so high even on other GWF or GF that imo its better to stack on some extra arm pen and a little more crit to be as effective as you can. Plus it is unaffected by if you are lower HP or not. The only problem with this is you start to stack a little more arm pen than CW/TR should have, but with how high the damage can be on GWF now you shouldn't be needing to focus on getting extra damage on them anyway. In addition its more reliable, and you don't need to wait for procs or have procs get wasted when fighting people like other GWF and have it proc while they are unstoppable.
  • ikeepit3hunnaikeepit3hunna Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited December 2013
    tenes arent even good anymore. heck i didnt even like them prepatch. but now that dr counts in and u can dodge theyre practicaly worthless. i wouldnt use them on any class except HR because they get softcap crit/arp without trying
    U R 2 E Z- SENT IV GWF undefeated 16k GS
    FaceRoller- regen recovery TR (put on the shelf for now) 14k GS
    Supreme CHAOS - IV GF (put on the shelf for now) 16k GS
    White Khalifa- tene/hp/regen CW (retired) 11k GS (tene)
    Death From Above- TANK ranger 16kGS
    (all halfling everything)

    Proud rank 6 of: <Enemy Team>

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • esteenaesteena Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 1
    edited December 2013
    pers3phone wrote: »
    It all remains the same:

    - you cannot dodge them (how do I dodge a deflect?!?)
    - they take no skill to use as the person that has them did not push a single button to deal 8K of damage. They can AFK, and you hit them and take big damage.

    Cool? I don't think so.

    8K damage?

    Dude...can you just stop? this is hilarious..

    You are CLUELESS about how they work xD.

    teneop-1.png

    Procing 8000 damage? i wish :P.

    * and that was against people with almost no DR xD*
  • pers3phonepers3phone Banned Users, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited December 2013
    esteena wrote: »
    8K damage?

    Dude...can you just stop? this is hilarious..

    You are CLUELESS about how they work xD.

    teneop-1.png

    Procing 8000 damage? i wish :P.

    * and that was against people with almost no DR xD*

    This your 100+ post of yours that is cluelessly clueless, on top of those that claimed a TR can do better dungeon damage than a CW (you were probably referring to the guys from /lfg that were just trying the class). You have no idea how these things work? You have no idea how much HP a GWF can accumulate these days? How fast he regens to full, so when one goes to contest, the GWF almost always starts close to 100% HP for full tene proc?

    If YOU cannot proc for 8k, that doesn't mean somebody else cannot. And it was 8K AFTER DR.

    Sure, some GWFs might still have "just" 35-36K HP. However you can get MUCH more.

    BTW, a CW should not be able to explain this to you who has a GWF...
  • swarfega27swarfega27 Member Posts: 185 Arc User
    edited December 2013
    Fun facts:
    Tene use offence slots. Hp/Radiants use defensive.
    Increasing HP = Decreasing # of Tenes.
    Less Tene = less damage.
    Increasing HP = decrease overall dmg.

    8k is a mathematical exaggeration.

    Perhaps the scenario of you getting hit for 8k makes zero sense for anyone who has a gwf or a calculator.
  • pers3phonepers3phone Banned Users, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited December 2013
    I shoud've taken a **** picture.
  • gannicsgladiatorgannicsgladiator Member Posts: 413 Bounty Hunter
    edited December 2013
    i still like tenes, especially fighting a GF, they are awesome to break gf block.
    i already have so m uch much power, armor pen from new builds, that i do think tenes deserve room in my build.
    Dovahkiin Gannicus, GWF Sentinel- Enemy Team Guild
    Gannicus Destroyer, GWF Destroyer retired
    Kate Beckinsale NB DC, Link NB GF
    "There is only one way to be a champion..., Never ...ing lose"
  • f2pnwf2pnw Member Posts: 98
    edited December 2013
    i still like tenes, especially fighting a GF, they are awesome to break gf block.
    i already have so m uch much power, armor pen from new builds, that i do think tenes deserve room in my build.[/QUOT


    all that talk abouth non tene build and always ends up the same lol.like someone said tene will always be tene.
  • esteenaesteena Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 1
    edited December 2013
    pers3phone wrote: »
    This your 100+ post of yours that is cluelessly clueless, on top of those that claimed a TR can do better dungeon damage than a CW (you were probably referring to the guys from /lfg that were just trying the class). You have no idea how these things work? You have no idea how much HP a GWF can accumulate these days? How fast he regens to full, so when one goes to contest, the GWF almost always starts close to 100% HP for full tene proc?

    If YOU cannot proc for 8k, that doesn't mean somebody else cannot. And it was 8K AFTER DR.

    Sure, some GWFs might still have "just" 35-36K HP. However you can get MUCH more.

    BTW, a CW should not be able to explain this to you who has a GWF...

    ^ Someone is mad... :P

    And no proofs of your fairy tales either :).

    You need atleast 40,000 HP and 7 G tenes and a target with 0% DR 0% deflect to get 8000 + damage on it.

    I have a sent with 39k HP and tenes mate, and i have just showed you logs of my tenebrous damage :). You are the one arguing with no proofs here ^^ + you don't even play the class.
  • chipsterchipster Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 128 Bounty Hunter
    edited December 2013
    Tene had gone from 'A' grade enchantment to 'C' grade enchantment. Now there was a guy who doesn't use tene came out with a ridiculous number 8000+. Tene is close to worthless, even more 'fix' to it would further deteriorate it to a refinement material. I suggest that the thread-starter actually do some testing, play a gwf, get a damage logger, refine his build on CW, get some good gear? before ranting in the forum.
  • f2pnwf2pnw Member Posts: 98
    edited December 2013
    chipster wrote: »
    Tene had gone from 'A' grade enchantment to 'C' grade enchantment. Now there was a guy who doesn't use tene came out with a ridiculous number 8000+. Tene is close to worthless, even more 'fix' to it would further deteriorate it to a refinement material. I suggest that the thread-starter actually do some testing, play a gwf, get a damage logger, refine his build on CW, get some good gear? before ranting in the forum.

    i wonder why best pvp guild still use C grade enchants and didnt find nothing better.
  • wh0wh0 Member Posts: 64 Arc User
    edited December 2013
    f2pnw wrote: »
    i wonder why best pvp guild still use C grade enchants and didnt find nothing better.

    Do you think that the C grade enchant that they invested their energy/time to get, give up easily on that? Moreover, even if they want to sell it and swap to other enchant would that be easy?

    No one wants it now dude.
  • pers3phonepers3phone Banned Users, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited December 2013
    chipster wrote: »
    Tene had gone from 'A' grade enchantment to 'C' grade enchantment. Now there was a guy who doesn't use tene came out with a ridiculous number 8000+. Tene is close to worthless, even more 'fix' to it would further deteriorate it to a refinement material. I suggest that the thread-starter actually do some testing, play a gwf, get a damage logger, refine his build on CW, get some good gear? before ranting in the forum.

    Thank you, I appreciate the suggestions. They are most welcome. My gear is very bad, I just discovered the log this day, it's an amazing tool. I had no idea I could respec!!!!!!

    I had entered a laborious study about wizardry after your advice and decided all I did was wrong!!!!!!

    No more ranting from me, I am deeply humiliated by this amazingly deep post. *wipes tears of emotion from corner of the eyes*

    PS - to anybody: if the tenes are worthless, please feel free to let me know ingame so I can take them from you. You don't want your pro PvP chars to perform badly in premades because you carry obsolete enchants, don't you?!? Be a pro, give me your tenes, get something better - don't disappoint your team!!!
  • f2pnwf2pnw Member Posts: 98
    edited December 2013
    wh0 wrote: »
    Do you think that the C grade enchant that they invested their energy/time to get, give up easily on that? Moreover, even if they want to sell it and swap to other enchant would that be easy?

    No one wants it now dude.


    top pvp players have any gear they want they said it many times.and if they start losing premades they would change tene in a sec.just sayin tene is still best enchant for pvp.if u trying a to push limits with your gear and stay ahead u need tenes thats a fact.
  • slushpsychoslushpsycho Member Posts: 657 Bounty Hunter
    edited December 2013
    Tene are not supposed to be underpower, this is a F2P game that meant to make player to P2W.

    They not gonna make it balanced to please u.
  • pers3phonepers3phone Banned Users, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited December 2013
    Tene are not supposed to be underpower, this is a F2P game that meant to make player to P2W.

    They not gonna make it balanced to please u.

    I'm not alone in this. But some have become fed up with posting without real results, and others fear flaming from the tene guys.

    I don't care about either.
  • f2pnwf2pnw Member Posts: 98
    edited December 2013
    only way i would be pleased if ranking system and tournaments every day and not pugs every day.im just basicly sayin tene useres will never get respect they want no matter how much time they spend on forum explaining tenes is HAMSTER.
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