module 2 GF

ikeepit3hunna · December 2013

well i tested a couple things out. it seems if you want to run the new paragon my old hybrid dps/tank setup isnt viable. flourish is extremely delayed and your dps takes a pretty big hit overall. im thinking for gf to be usefull at all its going to need to be a tactician build with maximized defence/deflect/regen/hp and recovery for bouncing. and the old paragon with hybrid setup has 0 chance vs the new gwf... guess thats GG for my main class lmao

hidahayabusa · December 2013

I guess that it's PvE time for my GF

slushpsycho · December 2013

same here man, I already predicit it before the patch went online. Once I did test it on live, I notice no hybrid build is viable, u either go full dps all out build or u have to go tatician and spam daily.
Which sadly if a team wants a dmg dealer a burst TR is much better choice and still have plenty surivibility, dps GF pops so quick in a competitive match. You can be the best GF in game and still won't find sucess in running a dps build, it is just the meta.

ikeepit3hunna · December 2013

U can't go dps at all. Its full tank or gg now. The question is if gf will be of any use except bouncing gwfs. Without dmg any class can stalemate gf

slushpsycho · December 2013

ikeepit3hunna wrote: »

U can't go dps at all. Its full tank or gg now. The question is if gf will be of any use except bouncing gwfs. Without dmg any class can stalemate gf

Agree, and with gwf getting frontline, the one thing special about gf has been taken away. Only thing left that is good is the Bull charge really but GF just have so much other problems at this moment. I just stripe my GF naked and turn that into a pure PVE toon if anyone even need a GF...

cyanbluestone007 · December 2013

Look at you crying GF's

GF has always been better than GWF in everyway. We have received no nerfs at all this patch unlike the GWF who lost animation cancel on WMS and now is forced to go IV, So maybe they might be able to compare to a GF. And here you guys are crying that the GWF is going to become useful for a change and that GF's will lose there spot in a party.

Until GWFs get +100% threat or more they can never take the tank title from GF's.

GWF's needed a boost and I'm still not convinced they got it. I think the class got hurt mroe then it got helped. However the "Great" GWFS who used animation cancel alot are now not so great. But the poor GWFs who Go Iron Vangaurd will do alot better than there old crappy Swordmaster path since they never used animation cancle.

I have still yet to see a GWF trully beat me in damage. That would require a GWF to deal at least 10-20% more damage than my GF to convince me that they are a damage dealer and not a wanna-be tank.

Until GWF can prove that they will never have a place in my groups and my CW and DC friends take me hands down over any GWF.

So quit crying about GF, Learn to deal some damage and keep your block meter up to abuse GF power then you can comment on the improvements the GF needs. Yes GF needs improvements but alot of that can be fixed by tweaking dungeons and content for tanks Until then we can play beat tanks, until true tanks are actually needed.

agriniotis · December 2013

anyone else has prolbmes with aggro as a tactician swordmaster ???? tested it and tha results were terrible...iv worked perfectly

vexus99 · December 2013

For the person that thinks GWF's were nerfed and that GF's are better, kindly try some high end PvP please. Your GF was outclassed vs GWF's before and is laughably outclassed now thanks to the big GWF boost from Iron Vanguard. GWF's dominate PvP now.

omgnicktaken · December 2013

yeap, can confirm that for conqueror the SM really doesn't work. Tested it a bit and swapped back to my old iron vanguard build. The problem with the SM is that it actually dropped my effective damage a lot in PvE along with causing agro maintain to become a chore. The steel blitz doesn't seem to measure up to trample the fallen and the wms just doesn't work that well because it turns cleave into 4 hit combo that simply takes too long to execute. In most cases you would want to either block, dodge or pop an encounter/daily before the combo is done. Add the loss of mobility and aoe mark from threatening rush and the loss of frontline surge. The only viable build is see to use the SM would b a support tank tact spamming daily for steel defense. A bit funny, since i believe the intent of the new paragon was to offer a more offensive path..

Unknown · December 2013

This content has been removed.

inthefade462 · December 2013

cyanbluestone007 wrote: »

I have still yet to see a GWF trully beat me in damage. That would require a GWF to deal at least 10-20% more damage than my GF to convince me that they are a damage dealer and not a wanna-be tank.

Until GWF can prove that they will never have a place in my groups and my CW and DC friends take me hands down over any GWF.

Who are you grouping with? Hard to find CWs who can keep up with GWFs now. GFs? lol.

Yeah animation cancel nerf was a hit to high end GWFs but the encounter/at-will buffs offsets it nearly completely. So yeah some GWFs lost maybe 10-20% overall dmg but the low end and average GWFs, sentinels and others who didn't know or didn't use animation cancel received a huge buff.

slushpsycho · December 2013

masterofmirage wrote: »

Well kinda, your forgetting the things that also add like artifacts and small boost's from comp..

I have both classes (GF and GWF). I have not changed ether one's path but i did alter how the points were used that consider the changes artifacts add.

One thing for the GWF is why it is doing more dammage than b4 it tends to remain slow at doing it. My GF im still working with but shows about the same as the GWF (bit more dammage but slower).

At this point i think the best thing is to work with the artfacts longer and see where it leads us. SO many new factors and i think way too early to see where all of it heading.

tnx

I have try things out before the patch, and I go really far in terms of building a hybrid GF. You don't need to actually have all those thing to be able to tell how effective it would be.

Hybrid GF is just outclased by GWF. And because everyone else gets more regen it potentially makes Hybrid GF suffer due to a lack of dmg and his nature of awful mobility.

Again, it all depends on how high u aim and what level u play in. I can wear timeless hero and wreck pug anytime, but yeah those are pugs.

ikeepit3hunna · December 2013

vexus99 wrote: »

For the person that thinks GWF's were nerfed and that GF's are better, kindly try some high end PvP please. Your GF was outclassed vs GWF's before and is laughably outclassed now thanks to the big GWF boost from Iron Vanguard. GWF's dominate PvP now.

Yup. This ^ .Gfs were like support prones and bouncing around. Now gwf has that +some more dmg, more mobility, more tankiness.... gg

kolbe11 · December 2013

Strictly PvE related: After several runs of MC & 2 of CN running on my DPS GF with at least one GWF, I can honestly say that there is still a place for GF. It may not be much, but a GF can sub for a GWF and visa-versa much more than before.

Only noticeable changes I can really note being "different" post mod2:

- GF's still hold aggro WAY better than a GWF.
NOTED EXAMPLE: When you have a Renegade "glass cannon" CW in party, the only thing that can get aggro off him/her will still be a GF. Seems even better post-mod2 than before.
- DPS between the 2 in PvE is within 1M Damage of each other.
NOTED EXAMPLE: Comparing a GWF w/ AoW to GF w/ Timeless, both with R8 and Greater enchants. GWF's are doing a lot more DPS than pre-mod2.

The fact of the matter is, the differences between the 2 in PvE are so negligible that they are immensely negotiable. GF's can still be an important part of a group when they focus on their best traits: aggro generation and mob handling. However, some parties will prefer that extra bit of DPS and don't care about being chased. Just comes down to play style is all.

gannicsgladiator · December 2013

ikeepit3hunna wrote: »

Yup. This ^ .Gfs were like support prones and bouncing around. Now gwf has that +some more dmg, more mobility, more tankiness.... gg

disagree bro.
we haven't played against premades to take that in account, and fighting pugs gf doesn't really show anything.
I played against a darkness premade another day, and they had a tanky GF, and he could control the node from me very very easy. I could kill him if he fought in an open fight easily, however he was playing smart and the objective, he could still control the node just with bull charge. he was using flourish to interrupt me before bullcharge and was very effective. he was also using steel defense, and it "saved" him from death few times. I just think you didn't take the time to try the GF long enough to build a good paragon, and you also haven't played against good ones, taking in account our gwfs are very top tier items/enchantments, and we are skilled players, pugging is not good to know if gfs are still good or not.

the skills to drop people off node are :indomittable strenght and bull charge, frontline has a slighty knockback, but so does roar, and they are not so different. except FS has a lot more cooldown in a gwf.
, so with BC alone they still control the Node much better than GWF.

remfdt · December 2013

Off topic, but about module 2 GFs:

Anyone happen to know if the first DR boon that adds power/movement get boosted for conq builds?

Regarding aggro control; yesterday I had a seriously well played/geared gwf almost double my GFs dmg for a DK run (I was wearing full KC buff armor/popping fray for party benefit, not wearing dps timeless set), and had exactly zero trouble holding aggro on trash or the king. I could grab/hold/position stuff at will, so more dps from the gwf was pure win.

kidbs · December 2013

inthefade462 wrote: »

Who are you grouping with? Hard to find CWs who can keep up with GWFs now. GFs? lol.

Yeah animation cancel nerf was a hit to high end GWFs but the encounter/at-will buffs offsets it nearly completely. So yeah some GWFs lost maybe 10-20% overall dmg but the low end and average GWFs, sentinels and others who didn't know or didn't use animation cancel received a huge buff.

GWFs got buffed but they still aren't going to beat a skilled and correctly speced CW in a dungeon. The target caps on GWF abilities still prevent this.

inthefade462 · December 2013

kidbs wrote: »

GWFs got buffed but they still aren't going to beat a skilled and correctly speced CW in a dungeon. The target caps on GWF abilities still prevent this.

what do you mean by still? With animation cancel pre patch gwf was matching cw dmg. Post patch the cw took too many hits (ap/shard/crit bugs)to keep up with gwf. Yeah we took a hit with animation cancel but received tons of buffs that make up for it. Right now the best cw aoe is ss, which has a 3 target cap. Our "single target" attacks have a 3 target cap.

Ive been beaten in dps once (and by beaten i mean tied in dmg) to a guild cw, back when i was using lesser vorpal vs his perfect. Ive since swapped my tr's perfect vorpal over to my gwf and haven't been challenged for #1 dps spot since.

ikeepit3hunna · December 2013

as far as pve goes gf is stil better thats no doubt...... but in pvp i mean gwf is so OP compared to gf, gfs got gimped

dkcandy · December 2013

Sure the Swordmaster paragon is great for PvE but for PvP we still got Iron Vanguard and with the increase regen even more OP than over. The ability to gain 20k HP in about 6 seconds is very broken.

ikeepit3hunna · December 2013

dkcandy wrote: »

Sure the Swordmaster paragon is great for PvE but for PvP we still got Iron Vanguard and with the increase regen even more OP than over. The ability to gain 20k HP in about 6 seconds is very broken.

Yeah u can still be tanky and negate gwf.. but any gf that was hybrid build kinda becomes obsolete... which is most premade gfs with the 30k hp 2kcrit 1.6k arp etc

dkcandy · December 2013

ikeepit3hunna wrote: »

Yeah u can still be tanky and negate gwf.. but any gf that was hybrid build kinda becomes obsolete... which is most premade gfs with the 30k hp 2kcrit 1.6k arp etc

I've never been a fan of the 2/2 Build because the Deflect/Regen is just superior and now is stronger than ever.

ikeepit3hunna · December 2013

dkcandy wrote: »

I've never been a fan of the 2/2 Build because the Deflect/Regen is just superior and now is stronger than ever.

It let's you lock down people when u get a rotate because u do so much dmg, but yea now the tank build is the only choice

kidbs · December 2013

inthefade462 wrote: »

what do you mean by still? With animation cancel pre patch gwf was matching cw dmg. Post patch the cw took too many hits (ap/shard/crit bugs)to keep up with gwf. Yeah we took a hit with animation cancel but received tons of buffs that make up for it. Right now the best cw aoe is ss, which has a 3 target cap. Our "single target" attacks have a 3 target cap.

Ive been beaten in dps once (and by beaten i mean tied in dmg) to a guild cw, back when i was using lesser vorpal vs his perfect. Ive since swapped my tr's perfect vorpal over to my gwf and haven't been challenged for #1 dps spot since.

I've had so many clueless GWFs say the same thing to me only to get roflstomped by many millions in damage. There are no crit bugs with my build and we have in fact gotten some armor pen bugs fixed so our damage is even higher. What do you mean sudden storm has a 3 target cap? It's still unlimited in the number of mobs that it can hit. There is nothing that you can do to compete with the sudden storm, shard, and conduit of ice combo.

I also have a GWF so I know exactly what they are capable of and their limitations.

slushpsycho · December 2013

ikeepit3hunna wrote: »

It let's you lock down people when u get a rotate because u do so much dmg, but yea now the tank build is the only choice

Or go full power/ crit with Vorpal set up. I mean that **** still works fine in most random match or light duty premades. I got hit buy one GF's full rotation for 20k on my GF... which is like 60% of my health bar. Imagine that goes on a cw that cw is either dead or 3k health away from death.

slushpsycho · December 2013

gannicsgladiator wrote: »

disagree bro.
we haven't played against premades to take that in account, and fighting pugs gf doesn't really show anything.
I played against a darkness premade another day, and they had a tanky GF, and he could control the node from me very very easy. I could kill him if he fought in an open fight easily, however he was playing smart and the objective, he could still control the node just with bull charge. he was using flourish to interrupt me before bullcharge and was very effective. he was also using steel defense, and it "saved" him from death few times. I just think you didn't take the time to try the GF long enough to build a good paragon, and you also haven't played against good ones, taking in account our gwfs are very top tier items/enchantments, and we are skilled players, pugging is not good to know if gfs are still good or not.

the skills to drop people off node are :indomittable strenght and bull charge, frontline has a slighty knockback, but so does roar, and they are not so different. except FS has a lot more cooldown in a gwf.
, so with BC alone they still control the Node much better than GWF.

Swordmaster path GF is boring, it is team based, when ur team sucks u suffer and u will never kill anything 1 v 1 as long as we talking about a above average PVP player. Basically it is a premade only build with one play style.

And u have nothing to do but to build tanky and then control node. Just like ikeepit3hunna point out earlier, GF right now is either full tank or GG. You should read other's comment better before u reply.

I can only say if u go the bunker Swordmaster Tactician build(aka Immortal build), GF actually is considered buffed because it allows u to actually 1 v 2 in a point, I mean I can control a node with my old hybrid build anytime and would not lose to anyone 1 v 1, but once it turns to 1 v 2 GF dies really quickly.

module 2 GF

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