Please just admit it...this game hates guardian fighters

rehabroses · December 2013

Guardian fighters are still the most useless class. This upgrade did nothing to change anything. So I choose swordmaster tree and the damage I can do in comparison to GWF is laughable. Oh yay, on my GF Crescendo does 3-4k dmg. On my GWF, it's up to 7k dmg.

I know Guardian fighter is all about tanking but GWF's are better tanks now too.

Why not just convert all Guardian fighters into GWF's, send an apology for making such a flawed design and give all GF's millions of astral diamonds to make up for their wasted efforts and to buy new gear for their GWF? Since GWF's are better tanks and dmg dealers, why not just make them the main tank and dps which will register in dungeon ques or give a system check depending on their feat spec to select tank option?

P.S. Yes I do know how to tank already however in comparison to other games, they've made the GF not really needed for most dungeons and it's annoying.

I actually do like the new enchantment system. I never could afford a perfect enchantment due to wasted money being tossed on a useless character. At this point, I'm going to give my GF a good dirt nap and pretend it never happened.

P.S. BRAVERY would have been the best option for guardian fighters since we are so slow. Oh yes sure I can use Into the Fray but do I really wanna give my party a damage boost so they can take more aggro and waste a slot on my castbar?

dkcandy · December 2013

Swordmaster is a GF Tank Paragon while Iron Vanguard is the DPS Paragon.

shadow5930 · December 2013

Uhm....

Have you attempted checking out the class forum section for assistance? Guides on how to build a GF? Anything?

GFs are still quite alive and well. Just like GWFs. Despite the gloom and doom of them sharing paths. If you're having that level of difficulty, I'd highly advise you to look for guides in the barracks forums.

zolron · December 2013

....from my perspective at least so take this with a grain of salt

I have a level 60 of every class except for GWF ( stuck at 40, don't really like the game play style to be honest). Of all my toons are equally geared pretty much, with max boons on my Wizard and Rogue only.
I spec'd and geared my GF for dps as I solo mainly and he is the easiest by far to run foundry and Sharandar solo instances. In fact, he is the only toon that can solo Celadine easily.. Wiz has a hard time, and the rogue can do it but tons of running around in between stealth )...the others may take down squishies a little easier but are no match on elites or solo bosses.

bendalek · December 2013

Maybe it's just me, but I don't see the GF being 'broken' or useless. Like zolron, I have a 60 GF who can pretty much solo anything in Sharandar, it might take him a few mins longer to kill everything, but he also uses way less potions and has to do way less kiting. With a Runed up CD companion, he is all but unkillable!

My GWF on the same runs is quicker to kill enemies, (and I admit I prefer the 'look' and style of the GWF's animations) but, she does spend more time kiting and popping potions (and more time 'babysitting' her companion) ... It's just a different play style, but the end is still the same.

For me it's almost as though I've got to dual spec. my fingers = GF is Numbers + QER and Tab keys, GWF is more WASD keys + Shift and Tab ... Just me though ...

echokazul · December 2013

I love playing my GF. I can do a ton of damage, and take a lot as well. I managed to pull complete every dungeon and skirmish leveling up, with pugs only, while leveling up, only failing once at the pirate skyhold skirmish. That was something I wasn't able to do with my DC or CW.

You do need a DPS/conqueror build, though. I tried some of the other branches of the Iron Vanguard tree, and didn't have nearly such a grand time.

pitshade · December 2013

The Garunder the Vile skirmish is pretty much only completable if you have someone to throw the marsh mystics off the cliff as soon as they spawn.

Anyway, I have at least one of all five original classes and I like to farm a lot. My choice for that has quickly been taken over by my GF. Fight defensively, use control powers to stop the big hits. Use enduring warrior and Fighter's Recovery to stay healed and she can pretty much fight off anything with less headache - except for the totemist bosses of Feydark Breach and Arcane Reservoir and that's only because they're bugged. Only real problem I had with her while leveling was not using the aforementioned control powers as the boss fights were really obnoxious without them. (My first real experience with the GF class was in the Orc CTA and I mistakenly thought that Frontline Surge was what was being used to ping pong stuff around, pulling more mobs. It was Bull Charge and Lunging Strke of course.) Once I got over that misconception/distaste, everything was great. Well except for the Pirates skirmish as we didn't have anyone to toss the healers off the cliff.

xxmantaraxx · December 2013

I have a 60 GF and a 60 GWF. These are my mains and I love them for what they are. Love holding agro on mobs with my GF so that the paper cannons can get damage bonus. I love being able to get a boss to turn and face me so that the rogue can get its stabby stab on. With my GF its not about doing the damage its about controlling the battle and debuffing. In PvP GF is rad if you can get your rotations down right and know when to raise that shield and when to act like they broke your guard.

If damage Is what you want to do play a TR.

argantis · December 2013

A couple of thoughts...

First off I love the fighter class in any game I play. I have two level 60 GWF and 1.5 GF (lowby stuck at level 36 since a memeber of my leveling group bailed on me). I have played and respecced them both a lot.

1) Destroyer GWF are fine for PVE AoE damage or boss tanks, they are pretty interchangeable with rogues. Rogues do more damage so they are preferred, some control wizards too. Since a CW will have better control and do more AoE, but less single target damage. To offset this the GWF should be more survivable, but they really are not. ITC > Unstoppable. Range > Unstoppable. So yes, Destroyers need love.

2) Sentinel GWF are inferior to a conqueror in every way possible. They can make OK boss tanks, but that is the extent of their limited role. The huge area lacking for a sentinel is on demand threat.

3) Protectors, built, geared, and played well are the best add tanks in the game, bar none. Now min you, I hate the role. I would much rather actually tank stuff, you know, get in their face and smack them. But alas, because of Jack Emmert, Neverwinter is an add fest where you are a parade master leading a train of mobs with a baton, err, sword in hand. It sucks, it is about the most unheroic MMO character I have every played, and running in circles from mobs is about the most unfighter thing a fighter could ever do. Thanks Jack, for ruining Neverwinter for me and single highhandedly destroying everything that a guardian fighter should be. You promised less adds in the Feywild, and to some degree delivered on that in Malabog Castle. Now go back and fix ToS and CN please before I find a way to shield bash you with words

Oh and just for the record, here are the current end game meta-groups pre-ranger.

MC: 2 CW, 1 DC, 1 TR, one more DC/TR preferred but will take one fighter, GF preferred for clearing trash.
DK: 3 TR, 1 DC, 1 CW
CN: 3 CW, 1 DC, 1 TR

Yes, fighters period need love, both GWF and GF. We are not welcome in end game groups and we hold our teams back because just about in every case a TR or CW can replace us and improve the group dynamic.

ikeepit3hunna · December 2013

shadow5930 wrote: »

Uhm....

Have you attempted checking out the class forum section for assistance? Guides on how to build a GF? Anything?

GFs are still quite alive and well. Just like GWFs. Despite the gloom and doom of them sharing paths. If you're having that level of difficulty, I'd highly advise you to look for guides in the barracks forums.

Actually. Gfs do suck now. U only get 1 viable build . Gfs really got limited this patch

calorien · December 2013

The huge area lacking for a sentinel is on demand threat.

That's mostly fixed by giving Iron Vanguard paragon to GWFs.

shadow5930 · December 2013

argantis wrote: »

1) Destroyer GWF are fine for PVE AoE damage or boss tanks, they are pretty interchangeable with rogues. Rogues do more damage so they are preferred, some control wizards too. Since a CW will have better control and do more AoE, but less single target damage. To offset this the GWF should be more survivable, but they really are not. ITC > Unstoppable. Range > Unstoppable. So yes, Destroyers need love.

2) Sentinel GWF are inferior to a conqueror in every way possible. They can make OK boss tanks, but that is the extent of their limited role. The huge area lacking for a sentinel is on demand threat.

3) Protectors, built, geared, and played well are the best add tanks in the game, bar none. Now min you, I hate the role. I would much rather actually tank stuff, you know, get in their face and smack them.......

You're comparing the sent spec, AKA the tank spec, to the conq spec, AKA the DPS spec. And they don't do as much damage? That.. uh.. is.. how it should be?

A GWF Sent can live just like a GF prot. A GWF Destroyer is up there with GF conq.

Also, as someone else mentioned, they got IV, which gives on demand threat.

ikeepit3hunna · December 2013

shadow5930 wrote: »

You're comparing the sent spec, AKA the tank spec, to the conq spec, AKA the DPS spec. And they don't do as much damage? That.. uh.. is.. how it should be?

A GWF Sent can live just like a GF prot. A GWF Destroyer is up there with GF conq.

Also, as someone else mentioned, they got IV, which gives on demand threat.

Sent has more dmg than conq with mod2

slushpsycho · December 2013

shadow5930 wrote: »

You're comparing the sent spec, AKA the tank spec, to the conq spec, AKA the DPS spec. And they don't do as much damage? That.. uh.. is.. how it should be?

A GWF Sent can live just like a GF prot. A GWF Destroyer is up there with GF conq.

Also, as someone else mentioned, they got IV, which gives on demand threat.

Correction a sent Gwf can hit as hard as a hybrid GF conq pre Mod 2 anyways. With Mod 2 there is no point going with a GF unless u want to have a pure tank that really does no dmg. It really kills the class.

dkcandy · December 2013

slushpsycho wrote: »

Correction a sent Gwf can hit as hard as a hybrid GF conq pre Mod 2 anyways. With Mod 2 there is no point going with a GF unless u want to have a pure tank that really does no dmg. It really kills the class.

GF Iron Vanguard DPS Build did not change with MOD 2. Actually they gained even more dmg with MOD 2 from Artifacts. The Hybrid DPS/Regen build is even better with iron vanguard because of the added regen/recovery + active bonus from pets.

slushpsycho · December 2013

dkcandy wrote: »

GF Iron Vanguard DPS Build did not change with MOD 2. Actually they gained even more dmg with MOD 2 from Artifacts. The Hybrid DPS/Regen build is even better with iron vanguard because of the added regen/recovery + active bonus from pets.

I am only talking about PVP. In PVE yes it is a buff for DPS even if u don't change paragon, but no in PVP it is like 30 feet underground.

I keep asking myself since mod 2 is live, why go hybrid GF instead of sent GWF?

The answer is I unslot everything from my GF and afk that toon. Playing a TR and rolling a HR in the future perhaps.

dkcandy · December 2013

slushpsycho wrote: »

I am only talking about PVP. In PVE yes it is a buff for DPS even if u don't change paragon, but no in PVP it is like 30 feet underground.

I keep asking myself since mod 2 is live, why go hybrid GF instead of sent GWF?

The answer is I unslot everything from my GF and afk that toon. Playing a TR and rolling a HR in the future perhaps.

Or you run my Deflect/Regen Build with 2k+ Regen & 38k+ Health and still kill players just like before.

Or you run my Immortal GF build with 2k+ Regen & 42k+ Health and cast daily..../emote sleep.... wait 5 seconds.... repeat

slushpsycho · December 2013

dkcandy wrote: »

Or you run my Deflect/Regen Build with 2k+ Regen & 38k+ Health and still kill players just like before.

Or you run my Immortal GF build with 2k+ Regen & 42k+ Health and cast daily..../emote sleep.... wait 5 seconds.... repeat

Just think it is harder to kill things cause how regen DR kick in, everybody can get regen to 1200+ easy in Mod2, and 2k+ regen doesn't do that much more due to DR.

The more reason I decide to afk GF is that if u go the conq route u always have a probelm when facing 1 v 2, before Mod 2 I would say I have fronline so I can prone my target and buy time while my teammate comes. And in Mod 2 GWF gets that and threaten rush, which fits in their kit nicely, more cc and more gap close, hands down op. And a sent gwf truly out perform any GF that do not run Immortal daily spam build in lots of way, the only plus I can still say for GF is that u have a nature advantage when fighting a TR because u can block that SE, but that is really not something good enough to make me still play GF...

dkcandy · December 2013

slushpsycho wrote: »

Just think it is harder to kill things cause how regen DR kick in, everybody can get regen to 1200+ easy in Mod2, and 2k+ regen doesn't do that much more due to DR.

The more reason I decide to afk GF is that if u go the conq route u always have a probelm when facing 1 v 2, before Mod 2 I would say I have fronline so I can prone my target and buy time while my teammate comes. And in Mod 2 GWF gets that and threaten rush, which fits in their kit nicely, more cc and more gap close, hands down op. And a sent gwf truly out perform any GF that do not run Immortal daily spam build in lots of way, the only plus I can still say for GF is that u have a nature advantage when fighting a TR because u can block that SE, but that is really not something good enough to make me still play GF...

I got you.

The class isn't dead just not as OP as it used to be due to everyone now getting free 700 Regen. GF may now have 2500+ 13%+ while everyone else is 10%.

But with 13% Regen & 40k HP you are looking at 2600 Regen Tick at 50% and 1300 Tick @ 75%.

While they will have: 25K HP @ 10% Regen 1250 Regen Tick at 50% and 625 Tick at 75%.

Don't know about you but having x2 the amount of Regen sounds hell of a lot better to me. :P

gannicsgladiator · December 2013

Even post update I can say that one of the classes that I hate fighting more is a good tank GF for the node.
even GWFs with Iron vanguard path, GFs are still the king of controlling the node. they still can play and troll with any GWF.

GFs are still very strong and necessary in an important premade.
Period.

slushpsycho · December 2013

dkcandy wrote: »

I got you.

The class isn't dead just not as OP as it used to be due to everyone now getting free 700 Regen. GF may now have 2500+ 13%+ while everyone else is 10%.

But with 13% Regen & 40k HP you are looking at 2600 Regen Tick at 50% and 1300 Tick @ 75%.

While they will have: 25K HP @ 10% Regen 1250 Regen Tick at 50% and 625 Tick at 75%.

Don't know about you but having x2 the amount of Regen sounds hell of a lot better to me. :P

My TR has 34k HP and 1750 regen, and I dunno how much life steal u have, but my TR has like 9%. Oh and my TR is not even high con cause it is not build just for premade. Otherwise it would hit 35k or even 36k depend on race.

I am sure if I am on my GF with a hybrid build I will lose to a TR like this 1 v 1.

Any class can reach a really tanky build in Mod 2, GF simply lacks mobility, and the problem is amplified when everyone takes longer to kill while they can dodge/stealth/immune. And GF can only stand at plain sight rely on using your block, which is really easy to break through due to the possible bug that it got wear down by small hit really quickly: 1 rotaion of duelist fury= 80% guard lost; 1 flourish= 80% gurad lost; ray of frost with random stormspell pop=50% gurad lost. List goes on and on.

You can still make a hybrid GF work in a premade, with one condition, u have a really good dc that can take care of himself really well and can roam around to toss you heal. It might just be me but it seems that way. I do aim high though, if we are just fighting normal premade or even premade from top guild as long as it is not their A-team hybrid build GF still work in certain degree, it requires exp and skills without doubt, and in my experience, I have not met more than 5 GFs in game that I would say he is good, so it it definitely not a easy choice for majority players,

Please just admit it...this game hates guardian fighters

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