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Why I believe Destroyer is the best path for GWF PVE...
pandapaul
Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild Users Posts: 424 Bounty Hunter
Disclaimer
First of all I just want to say that this is my opinion only which I have come up with from months of playing a high end GWF.. I have respected around 25 times.. respected into Sentinel 3 times and Instigator twice.. and have always returned to destroyer.. I am just going to post why.. Pl ease don't turn this in to the flame thread.. It's just my opinion
Flexibility
This is the main reason why I believe Destroyer is the best path for PVE.. It can play a variety of roles depending on the situation.. As far as Aoe Dps goes with GWF... it can be very very good... I always manage to keep up with the best CWs going around.. At boss fights it's very capable to play the role of a TR for single target dps and holding boss threat... And also in the right situation it can also tank quite well... The key to this is gear and having a variety of gear for different situations
Feats
Now this is where I feel like destroyer gets one of its major advantages over instigator.. When looking through the instigator tree... especially on the first few feats it is difficult to decide where to put your points in your feats. I felt like I was distributing points here because I had no choice in order to spec through the instigator path. Now with the destroyer path it feels difficult to decide how where to put your points.. there are options.. I feel like both destroyer and sentinel have some very good feats on the first two lines... whereas instigator does not.. so you will lose at least a couple of these great sentinel/destroyer feats going instigator
Threat
Now this is one of the main issues with the class.. It just doesn't generate any significant threat, even with the feats of sentinel that increase threat of certain encounters I didn't feel like sentinel could generate even close to enough threat, the main issue why is DPS.. sentinel is just too low in DPs.. whatever threat you gain in feats, you lose threat in DPS. Destroyer however can generate threat.. If it's dps is high enough and in fact its threat can be quite good... But I found this only available once my dps increased significantly
DPS spec
Destroyer has very good dps for the GWF class.. both its aoe dps and single target dps can be very effective In a dungeon.. just a quick change of passives and encounter rotation is enough to achieve this. While sentinel without a doubt can take more punishment it struggles in both aoe and single target dps.. Instigator can get very good aoe dps but again struggles with single target.. Destroyer can achieve both and gives this path an upper hand here. Destroyer can effectively replace a TR in any epic dungeon.. it is capable of holding boss agro and pulling off most the important "runs" that a TR are known for if the destroyer has a defensive spec to change too
Tank spec
Like I mentioned before sentinel can take more of a hit.. But I still don't feel like it makes it a better tank.. With the way PVE is in this game.. tanks really aren't required and If you feel like you need to party a serious tank well most people will party a GF. But I still feel when rolling with decent CWs a destroyer can tank enough to help the party. I have a second set of gear that I always take with me. If I am required to do a run then I wear my defensive set.. IF I need to tank a boss and the party isn't as strong sometimes I will use this set too
Gear sets
Again I feel this is where destroyer shines. I carry around my Avatar set for my aoe/single target dps then 2 scrapper/ 2 titan set for my defensive moments. Both sets really help a destroyer achieve what is needed and can give a destroyer extremely good survivability if needed.. one of the areas it usually lacks
Now I posted screenshots of the stats when I switch sets you will see that there is a very big difference once you change sets. I feel this is the biggest asset GWF has for groups in PVE.. Filling several roles. Most groups only run TRs. CWs and a DC.. I feel the main place for a GWF is the replace the TR in a group.. Destroyer is the best path for that
First of all I just want to say that this is my opinion only which I have come up with from months of playing a high end GWF.. I have respected around 25 times.. respected into Sentinel 3 times and Instigator twice.. and have always returned to destroyer.. I am just going to post why.. Pl ease don't turn this in to the flame thread.. It's just my opinion
Flexibility
This is the main reason why I believe Destroyer is the best path for PVE.. It can play a variety of roles depending on the situation.. As far as Aoe Dps goes with GWF... it can be very very good... I always manage to keep up with the best CWs going around.. At boss fights it's very capable to play the role of a TR for single target dps and holding boss threat... And also in the right situation it can also tank quite well... The key to this is gear and having a variety of gear for different situations
Feats
Now this is where I feel like destroyer gets one of its major advantages over instigator.. When looking through the instigator tree... especially on the first few feats it is difficult to decide where to put your points in your feats. I felt like I was distributing points here because I had no choice in order to spec through the instigator path. Now with the destroyer path it feels difficult to decide how where to put your points.. there are options.. I feel like both destroyer and sentinel have some very good feats on the first two lines... whereas instigator does not.. so you will lose at least a couple of these great sentinel/destroyer feats going instigator
Threat
Now this is one of the main issues with the class.. It just doesn't generate any significant threat, even with the feats of sentinel that increase threat of certain encounters I didn't feel like sentinel could generate even close to enough threat, the main issue why is DPS.. sentinel is just too low in DPs.. whatever threat you gain in feats, you lose threat in DPS. Destroyer however can generate threat.. If it's dps is high enough and in fact its threat can be quite good... But I found this only available once my dps increased significantly
DPS spec
Destroyer has very good dps for the GWF class.. both its aoe dps and single target dps can be very effective In a dungeon.. just a quick change of passives and encounter rotation is enough to achieve this. While sentinel without a doubt can take more punishment it struggles in both aoe and single target dps.. Instigator can get very good aoe dps but again struggles with single target.. Destroyer can achieve both and gives this path an upper hand here. Destroyer can effectively replace a TR in any epic dungeon.. it is capable of holding boss agro and pulling off most the important "runs" that a TR are known for if the destroyer has a defensive spec to change too
Tank spec
Like I mentioned before sentinel can take more of a hit.. But I still don't feel like it makes it a better tank.. With the way PVE is in this game.. tanks really aren't required and If you feel like you need to party a serious tank well most people will party a GF. But I still feel when rolling with decent CWs a destroyer can tank enough to help the party. I have a second set of gear that I always take with me. If I am required to do a run then I wear my defensive set.. IF I need to tank a boss and the party isn't as strong sometimes I will use this set too
Gear sets
Again I feel this is where destroyer shines. I carry around my Avatar set for my aoe/single target dps then 2 scrapper/ 2 titan set for my defensive moments. Both sets really help a destroyer achieve what is needed and can give a destroyer extremely good survivability if needed.. one of the areas it usually lacks
Now I posted screenshots of the stats when I switch sets you will see that there is a very big difference once you change sets. I feel this is the biggest asset GWF has for groups in PVE.. Filling several roles. Most groups only run TRs. CWs and a DC.. I feel the main place for a GWF is the replace the TR in a group.. Destroyer is the best path for that
Post edited by pandapaul on
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Comments
I can hit 14k IBS/Flourish with no debuffs/buffs.
Toss in the combat advantage from NSF and the vicious advantage feat and the numbers get higher.
Toss on a full 5 stacks instigator and the numbers get bigger.
Add a debuffing CW in the mix and I hit 28K IBS/Flourish 15K knockdown with 34K crescendo.
Yes those are crits with normal vorpal. Rank 6 darks with a couple rank 7's. No I don't wear AoW. Yes I have the set.
GWF is a very versatile class. I would say that Instigator and Destroyer are equal yet different. Each with a different style of play.
EDIT: Question - The Power listed, is that with AoW triggered or is that from radiants?
Though Destroyer's AoE isn't as good as Instigators. I believe Panda is saying that a Destroyer GWF can take the place of a TR/GF more readily then a Instigator/Sentinel do both of those roles. After running each spec through Epic dungeons of all shapes/sizes, I can't say I disagree with the man. Though I, will always, recommend play whatever your preferred playstyle is! I enjoy all the paths for different reasons, and now ask my Guild/Party... What do you want? Off-Tank, Add Control, or Solo-DPS? Then play the toon that does that best, though that doesn't mean any of them isn't capable of any of those roles (though Sentinel really lacks in DPS! lol), so there is that.
Although I hit 28k IBS on my own(my debuffs and buffs), with a greater vorpal. And for AoE i can slot my other sword with lightning. Maybe it isn't as good AoE as a Instigator, but I hold my ground with wizards.
only cryptic likes that broken op class
This will be for building threat and tank not pure dps. As we are not first choise for dps or tank today this is made for building alot of threat and tank adds.
Try this if you feel like it and best race for this is halfing with alot of deflect.
Destroyer build but with 2 Titan/2Avatar or Scrap depending on how offencive or tank build you want to go.
Powers is 1. Come and get it 2. IBS 3. Punishing charge(for building ap) or Not so fast.
Daily SLam or Avalance of steel(as it had no target caps).
Weapon ench Perfect lighting Armor ench Perfect Briartwine.
Stack alot of regg and get the boon of faywild with 400dam each time you deflect ( most can pick it by now).
Engage mobs before party make sure you go below 50% hp pop unstopp+healing potion with punishing charge you get a daily up fast enough to use slam or avalanche.
The hole consept is build around getting aggro from dam(briar+lightning)+ alot of healing(regg+unstop/potion)+fast daily.
The aggro you can regenerate is amazing but if you have party running ahead of you spamming aoe and a dc that spammes healing wildly it dont really matter what you do ).
Its a bit dependent on your party letting you play the tank role but if nothing else you will be very good at keeping mobs at you..
PS tnx for all tips Pandapaul learned alot from ya here on forum...
Those stats I posted are my basic stat sheets. No buffs.. No fireplace.. No party
Thanks!
And for the record Im not some uber geared GWF. At the moment Im using the T1 PvP set, Ancient weapon set, lvl55 blue shirt and pants, misc jewelry, no weapon enchant, no armor enchant and the other enchants are lvl4, 5 and 6 at best with a GS of about 10.1k. Now admittedly I mostly run with pugs and a few guild runs as well but even still I've out performed other GWF's with higher GS. Im not in any way an expert gamer, far from it actually but still, I've somehow managed to put other so called "needed" classes to shame.
I think our (GWF) biggest problem is that there is a big gap in usefulness when it comes to PvE and PvP. And what I mean by that is Destroyers are pretty good for solo and dungeon runs but only OK in PvP, Sentinels are great for PvP, ok for solo but not so useful in dungeon runs and Instigators are actually great for dungeon runs, ok for solo but worthless in PvP. Which means we can really only choose to excel at one or the other or just be ok at both. Where as other classes seem to have more flexibility in this area.
Now understand, Im taking this from the common play style of not switching out gear or skills as most players don't bother to do that. If you're talking about switching stuff up, that changes a lot of things I said but again, most don't, including me. Then you add in that fact that most players, however unjustified, have a bias against this class do largely to what other players say. Also I think that aside from clerics, this is one of the hardest classes to use do to the fact that we have a lot of skills to use but most aren't worth using. Which is why for every really good GWF there are about 5 really bad GWF's that keep the whole "GWF's are worthless" myth going.
Now these are all just my opinions, take them however you want.
I did post a build.. but since then I have changed it quite a lot.. Im very similar to Dakkons build now with a few small differences. I will try and post a new build soonish.. But I have a feeling a balance isn't too far away.. maybe less than a month.. which means build will change again
And if pvp is your thing then I would recommend sentinel spec GWF as it can be more successful In pvp when at an elite gear..
But in saying that I generally do pretty well in pvp.. I actually mix up my armor abit more for pvp.. Slotting defensive belt and sometimes my defensive set.. I can be quite squishy in pvp at times in my offensive gear.. But alot of that is due to the OP tene's....
I do however feel like I do quite well in pvp.. Very rarely finishing out of the top 3 and quite often I will win...
I find with the dps taking ppl by suprise and getting takedown to proc followed by IBS is the best sequence with either restoring strike or flourish at the other encounter... With my dps gear and build I regularly will crit a Tr for CW for around 18-20k With IBS once i prone with takedown..Most the time it's enough to get the job done.. A typical pvp I will get around 15-20 kills and 5-10 deaths.. So meh I think it does ok
I'm a fan of the min/max approach... If you're Destro, you go balls out to kill everything that moves. If you're Sent, you stand on a point and laugh as 2, 3, or sometimes 4 people try and knock you off the point.
Once again, I'm not saying this is the 'best' strategy, just how I roll.
People will always find a way to argue though, if you read the thread title it says pve. not pvp.
and also the featured satirical comedic adventure "A Call for Heroes".
*takes a moment to look at his own sig*
Or do I?
comment of the day
+1 internet to you sir.
I've to say, first of all, that Yesterday i got to play a MoH skirmish with you panda, and i was impressed by your pure DPS build.
I'd like to see how you perform in PvP (if you PvP a bit), what are your tactics exc...
Sure thing, i'm pretty sure you would be able to melt down even the hardest regeneration tank with your monster power/critical+ vorpal.
I started as destroyer, it's very good for PvE DPS. Deep gash helps a lot, and the ArP/ recovery sinergy in one of the feats can help to boost AP gain and reach the 24% ArP cap for mobs. Don't remember the other feats.
I bug reported twice...others should follow suit. If we all start now then maybe we can get it fixed by Christmas....of next year! :cool:
This should reduce the cool down on Punishing Charge, which should be pretty effing sweet! Not what you wanted, but it's not a bad thing for the next patch...