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One More Shot at this argument...
markfalcone
Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users Posts: 4
I'm coming up on my birthday and the more I thought about it the more disappointed I felt about the decision I made about my personal gift to myself this year.
Last year the whole family gave ourselves the gift of Lifetime Subscriber accounts to each of us on Champions Online. Back then I had the choice of doing that for myself or doing it for Star Trek Online and I decided in favor of Champions just because everyone else was doing it, but primarily because it meant monthly Zen to use on keys and such, and I haven't regretted it since nor have any of the rest of the family.
When Neverwinter came to testing, we were disappointed to note that there was no such thing in Neverwinter, with proponents of the current model screaming at the top of their lungs that NW didn't need any kind of a pay model and was just fine as a F2P only model. Still, we wanted to support Neverwinter and have fun doing it, so we got ourselves the Founder's Packs and moved on from there. Then we found the prices for anything Zen or Astral Diamond continuing to seem to rise after the release. Sure it didn't really rise, it's just that coin turned completely worthless by 60, Zen use for Professional Assets and C. Wards (not to mention keys) ran rampant pushing the price per Diamond up and up while other games went down and down, and more and more in the game required more and more Diamonds (i.e., Sharandar module, guild account slots, removing and adding enchantments etc.).
So my wife gave me a choice for my birthday between getting the Knight pack now or getting the STO Lifetime when it goes on sale in a month or two. And the more I mulled it over, the more I realized the pack was just plain not worth it. Nor was buying Zen cards. Why? Because STO's Lifetime Subscription gives monthly Zen.
Here's the heartbreak for me: I know that I will spend a little time on NW doing a little bit here and there, particularly during events, but that's it. I'll be less and less inclined to buy Zen for it. I'll be less and less inclined to buy packs as they come out. The game may have slightly more functionality than CO, though not as much as STO (i.e., no Account Bank Slots, no Guild Hall, and very little coin use after level 60), and a great story and graphics and all, but the other two have more carrots with fewer strings.
Sorry, just my two cents. I've said it before, and now I've said it again.
So be it.
Last year the whole family gave ourselves the gift of Lifetime Subscriber accounts to each of us on Champions Online. Back then I had the choice of doing that for myself or doing it for Star Trek Online and I decided in favor of Champions just because everyone else was doing it, but primarily because it meant monthly Zen to use on keys and such, and I haven't regretted it since nor have any of the rest of the family.
When Neverwinter came to testing, we were disappointed to note that there was no such thing in Neverwinter, with proponents of the current model screaming at the top of their lungs that NW didn't need any kind of a pay model and was just fine as a F2P only model. Still, we wanted to support Neverwinter and have fun doing it, so we got ourselves the Founder's Packs and moved on from there. Then we found the prices for anything Zen or Astral Diamond continuing to seem to rise after the release. Sure it didn't really rise, it's just that coin turned completely worthless by 60, Zen use for Professional Assets and C. Wards (not to mention keys) ran rampant pushing the price per Diamond up and up while other games went down and down, and more and more in the game required more and more Diamonds (i.e., Sharandar module, guild account slots, removing and adding enchantments etc.).
So my wife gave me a choice for my birthday between getting the Knight pack now or getting the STO Lifetime when it goes on sale in a month or two. And the more I mulled it over, the more I realized the pack was just plain not worth it. Nor was buying Zen cards. Why? Because STO's Lifetime Subscription gives monthly Zen.
Here's the heartbreak for me: I know that I will spend a little time on NW doing a little bit here and there, particularly during events, but that's it. I'll be less and less inclined to buy Zen for it. I'll be less and less inclined to buy packs as they come out. The game may have slightly more functionality than CO, though not as much as STO (i.e., no Account Bank Slots, no Guild Hall, and very little coin use after level 60), and a great story and graphics and all, but the other two have more carrots with fewer strings.
Sorry, just my two cents. I've said it before, and now I've said it again.
So be it.
Post edited by Unknown User on
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Just like to point out that STO had none of that at launch either. Most of that took years to happen. There was no shard storage, no guild halls, and coin had zero use as 60 due to all the top end gear needing special marks or merits to earn. And that was even before F2P and Dilithium became a currency. Sure, you can use EC on the auction house, and still can. But in nearly all cases it was easier to grind merits then cash.
Truth is, if EC had any real worth you would not be so hung up on getting zen as a subscription bonus, instead of an EC stipend. In that respect, its not all that different from here. The only real difference is you cant make a one time massive payment and get a lifetime tickle of points. If that is honestly the real deal breaker for you. Im sorry to say, that it just seems a little privileged.
to the OP: perhaps at some point in the distant future, lifetime subscriptions to neverwinter may emerge. but in all actuality, it's still in its infancy as far as MMOs go. if enjoying the game sporadically is your flavor, then there is nothing wrong with that. if spending no money is your flavor, well you can do that as well. if you don't think the knights of the feywild pack is of no value to you, you can certainly have that opinion. there is no requirement for any of this.
now what did i do with my shiny gold pants?
Three words: Disco is DEAD! ;-D
But when you start adding a subscription people expect more from thier developers. IE fixing issues in a somewhat timely manner. Fixing exploits all of the basic things you get from games that have a sub or sub option. This game is way to far behind on all the bugs exploits, and everything else wrong with the game to ever do a sub or even give people the option to do it.
That's not the issue, PWE publishes free to play MMOs with no subscription option, if CO and STO had never had LTS subs then they more than likely wouldn't have subscription fees at all today, the subscription fees on those games are holdovers for the people who had LTS subs.
This game however was envisioned as F2P from the ground up and will never have a subscription fee of any sort.
"Is it better to be feared or respected? I say, is it too much to ask for both?" -Tony Stark
Official NW_Legit_Community Forums
Thats this games major flaw from the start. More and more people are realizing that nothing in gaming is for free. And more people are understanding how a F2p game model works.
What you call a flaw I see as a boon - with no subscription model to act as a barrier, I can work toward virtually anything that's obtainable in-game. The only items you can't earn in-game are those from the various "packs' that are available - and in a sense, those have taken their place.
"Is it better to be feared or respected? I say, is it too much to ask for both?" -Tony Stark
Official NW_Legit_Community Forums
+1 agree with this whole-rough astral diamondly.
This game has never had a monthly sub, and almost certainly never will.
If you really enjoy the game, though, then spend $5.00 a month on zen and it will be like the stipend for a lifetime sub, only you are not locked in to a long-term deal (if you decide to move on then you can do so without concern of 'leaving money in this game').
And if you are still here playing after having spent a lifetime's sub worth of money in $5.00 increments, then I would say that the game has more than earned that little bit of money every month.
Why? it seems a really poor investment. What would you get for it? I know when CO and STO went F2P lifetimers got nothing at all extra or special for it. New Z-Store items would be added, and they would have to pay for it like anyone else. All they got where the few perks they got from the start, and their monthly stipend.
So lets assume, they offered a life time option. Lets be generous and say that comes with a founders pack and 500 Zen per month. For say, a reasonable cost of $300. The same cost as the lifetime offers in the other games and high enough to absorb the founders pack cost.
So you would end up paying $300 up front, to get $5 handed back to you, interest free, each month. With the bonus of also having a $200 package. It would take nearly 2 years to for that extra hundred dollar investment to pay for itself.
You could do better simply by having that $100 sit in the bank and build interest over 20 months then you would with the stipend. A lifetime offer is a great deal as an alternative to a subscription. But for a game with no sub, its simply a waste of money.
Why?:
I don't know if you aware but money can be exchanged for goods and services, a larger sum of money may also be paid up front for a guaranteed continuation of goods and services known as a subscription, a lifetime subscription would imply that the continuation of the goods and services would be that of your own lifespan and that of other purchasers.
What would you get for it?:
o) Expanded base inventory bag.
o) Unique Title.
o) Bonus 5% drop rate on rare items and 10% increased experience buff.
o) Access to the VIP room in the moonstone mask.
o) Max account bank slots and increased personal bank slots.
o) Summonable Vendor with unique potions ( bind on pickup ).
o) Monthly allowance/stipend similar to STO and CO.
o) Unlock all races ( present and future ).
o) Custom costumes.
o) Unique mount
o) 2 extra character slots.
All would be account wide unlocks obviously and initially would sell on special for $199 - $250 with a normal price of $299 then drop back down to $199 when/if user interest in the game begins to decline.
Mixing FTP and subs is generally bad business. It leads to a lot of strife and hatred between the different types of players. And the balancing between free and subs is difficult. Very few game companies can do it right. And even when they do, problems still exist. This bastardized model is usually used by games that started as subs and had to switch just to stay alive. STO/CO is pretty much a rare case where a ftp gaming company got a hold of a couple of sub games. I have a feeling that if the lifetime subs didn't exist in those game they would have switched to completely ftp as well.
For myself. I invested my time and money in Neverwinter because it is pure FTP. If I thought for a minute they would add a sub I'd be gone. I love this game, but I've also loved quite a bit of other games that are now mixed. And turned for the worse because of it. Like what bioshrike said: "What you call a flaw I see as a boon". And this "boon" is the reason I choose to play this game.
Much agreement here. I dont think I need to say more other than that.
As someone who bought all of the packs when they were released - if they offered something like this in the near future, I would be pissed. It's easily cost me 300+ dollars to get all of the packs (not counting the single-purches $20 ones), and if they released a Lifetime Subscription with monthly zen and other perks on top of the stuff I got in my packs, I would be incredibly irked. It would render what I paid for obsolete.
THAT SAID. Cryptic has said time and again that subscriptions will not be happening, and I for one am grateful. I don't want to have to cough up a smaller amount every month for access to things I want, nor do I want people with a lot more money than me to be able to pay for a permanent advantage over me. One of the things I like about Neverwinter is that it doesn't have a subscription option.
You said you were posting an argument, and you're surprised people are arguing? :rolleyes:
There is no such implication. Lifetime subscriptions are for the life of the game, not the player.
Just think of it this way. I purchase a lifetime membership to 3 free Blizzards a week club at Dairy Queen. Eventually I would get tired of eating Blizzards and move on to another type of new cool snack. When the coolness of that snack wears off or gets old. Its back to the old trusty Blizzard, heck I get 3 free a week why not. Then vicious cycle starts over and your off to the next new thing.
I also have bought all the packs and have unique'ish companions + mounts + astral diamonds + titles + cosmetic items + bags + other strarter items. I am not abdicating for any cross over in the above mentioned fields, sure you have cross overs in races but that's about it and you are deluding yourself that at some point in the future cryptic/pwe wont release a pack that ventures into more then just previously released races access so ready your bedpan munchacho:D
That was me just punning with ya