Hidden fix list

luruj · October 2013

-New invisible wall on final boss in Castle Never. There is no way to bug mobs behind gate anymore.
-New invisible wall near final boss in Malabog Castle. There is no way to bug finall boss.

misssmoozie · October 2013

Well, finally Ancients will go up to respectable prices again, me gusta.

baddumtss · October 2013

luruj wrote: »

-New invisible wall on final boss in Castle Never. There is no way to bug mobs behind gate anymore.
-New invisible wall near final boss in Malabog Castle. There is no way to bug finall boss.

Great fixes, especially the CN one. It took them only 6 months to fix, oh well better late than never... So no more cheesing the dracolich fight anymore huh, maybe a GF will be needed for that fight now...

srdjana · October 2013

they will find yet another way....

diogene0 · October 2013

baddumtss wrote: »

Great fixes, especially the CN one. It took them only 6 months to fix, oh well better late than never... So no more cheesing the dracolich fight anymore huh, maybe a GF will be needed for that fight now...

There are still a lot of critical exploits in CN. This is just a start.

pers3phone · October 2013

I gotta "see" the gate wall for myself lol. This games becomes more and more tedious. I mean... first no more pushing wizards on edges, cool, door is fine. HV nerf, cool, I'm still doing pretty OP damage... but now the door gone too? So I'm supposed to fight draco, those **** hands in which the game decides to rubberband me from time to time as a nice troll move, and a constant stream of Red Wizards? All for what? A 20% chance at some item that might not even be too valuable.

Right...

I said this for a number of times now:

The game is simply not that good to be enjoyed&savored bit by bit, the fights are all the same more or less, bosses have 0 real abilities, shortcuts to loot are always welcomed. Sure, most of the times the shortest path is "burn everything", but hey, it wasn't like this when I had 10K GS.

Well, we'll see. I'm sure people will discover new ways for Draco. Actually, to be honest, bugging the red wizzies was not even such a cheese move and a rather difficult feat until you get used to it.

tang56 · October 2013

baddumtss wrote: »

Great fixes, especially the CN one. It took them only 6 months to fix, oh well better late than never... So no more cheesing the dracolich fight anymore huh, maybe a GF will be needed for that fight now...

Why bother. Just go back to throwing them over the side like before people found out you can throw them back through the gate.

misssmoozie · October 2013

So, it's confirmed, CN is still clearable with 2 CW's 1 DC, 1 TR. But, it's a lot more tedious, might need to get a 5th player again..

srdjana · October 2013

The exploits sadly are not whats broken...

People exploit encounters because the encounter itself is broken...

The way boss combat is handled in this game is HAMSTER. Month after month after month us players have asked the Dev's to give bosses abilities and encounters to make them more challenging instead of just dumping adds on the players over and over...

Every.
Boss.
Fight.
Is.
The.
Same.
(except GG 2)

Until developers change the way Boss fights and mechanics are handled, players will either quit running the dungeon or they will exploit the sh*t out of it.

It's that simple.
__________________________________________________________

Suggestions:

Give bosses player like abilities. Decrease the time between using these abilities.
Have an ability / spell table only MoB's and bosses pull from.

The following are all 4e Powers and Abilities that could make boss fights MUCH more interesting.

Warlock's Marionette
Scorching Star
Several Abilities here that can be used such as Mirror Image
Wail of the Banshee
Imprisonment

I mean come on Dev's... if we can cull this material, so can you.

nwnghost · October 2013

Good thing those are fixed.

In terms of challenging encounters, the first solo dungeon in Whispering Caverns has a hidden room with 4 unead aventurers. Now that was quite the fight and something that would be great to have in an epic dungeon. It was akin to the rival adventuring party in Cragmire Crypts, but IMO a lot harder as the enemies were actually using player skills with the same cooldowns.

iergo · October 2013

Keep this up, with reporting to the community hidden fixes. Thanks. However, this does nothing to CN. Just repel mobs old style or deal with them normal way. If your team has bad CW's then all CW's slot steal time and run with cleric with 4 cw 1 dc team. Anyhow, peace outside I'm about to go do CN soon.

Oh btw MC already has another one lmao, just not sure if people will share so easily though.

Don't forget: No Bragging about having an exploit.;)

mikabella2 · October 2013

iergo wrote: »

Keep this up, with reporting to the community hidden fixes. Thanks. However, this does nothing to CN. Just repel mobs old style or deal with them normal way.

=/ havent tried it myself but i was told you cant even shield them over anymore, anyone can confirm or not?

gankdalf · October 2013

CN got to hard now tbh. Its not worth the time you have to put into it for a 20% chance for the drop.

You cant shield the adds out at all now (just tried it). You have to kill them or kite them or whatever. The bossfight is so loooong now so its not even fun. I wonder if the devs even tried to kill draco like this... :P

eldarth · October 2013

srdjana2 wrote: »

The following are all 4e Powers and Abilities that could make boss fights MUCH more interesting.

Several Abilities here that can be used such as Mirror Image

Wall of Ice to prevent PCs from running, followed by Prismatic Burst FTW
...like a boss!

erikiki1 · October 2013

The only change is the prices of ancients, still doable 24/7

iergo · October 2013

I meant old style before bump, when everyone was a ****, just sing them in group repel like crazy. However, that was with 2 DC, 2cw, tr groups back then. Shield was free AP then too, that's why i say if your CW's bad get a fourth and drop tr. A lot of good DC now a day unlike back then, so one should be fine.

nostalgia: Double astral shield, 14sec iirc my DC has 13.6 AS. sing, sing, sing if you weren't here, you missed out :P

Adapt.

misssmoozie · October 2013

iergo wrote: »

I meant old style before bump, when everyone was a ****, just sing them in group repel like crazy. However, that was with 2 DC, 2cw, tr groups back then. Shield was free AP then too, that's why i say if your CW's bad get a fourth and drop tr. A lot of good DC now a day unlike back then, so one should be fine.

nostalgia: Double astral shield, 14sec iirc my DC has 13.6 AS. sing, sing, sing if you weren't here, you missed out :P

Adapt.

Cheers for the good old days

And, 2 good Clerics can do something better than double circle, not as iconic, but works even better. Just need to have them know their class and have them cooperate.
Not sure if I should risk having it nerfed tho..

sslothzz · October 2013

Good players will adapt.
Don't know about CN, but Karru also had some wall fixes. Yesterday we made our first after-patch run and found other ways

Exploits are here to stay until dungeon mechanics is changed. And i'm not even mad about this fact - i will support it until boss fights become something interesting instead of insane kiting.

naoml · October 2013

After 2-3 hours of game our party managed to defeat Draco twice yesterday. Took us very long and a great amount of potions and kits...
I have 3 things to say about this:

1. after a lot of tries, best tactic was a lot of control on ADDs and TR attacking Draco take him to the side > 3 CW, DC, TR.
Problem is - I don't see any reason why I should take GWF/GF/MoreThenOneTR to CN now.

2. It's just long and boring, basicly you try not to die for 10-15 min (and that's with a rank 10's TR on Draco). There is no place for complex tactic - it's kill or be killed.
You cannot even you use Icy Terrain becuase then hands will kill you out of nowhere.
Don't get me wrong, I like a challenge and MC boss with Valindra is a great fight! but then the dragon is dead and drop nothing... therefore I got only CN to farm.

3. If our party had a hard time on Draco, then I don't see how a ~12k party can do this, not even mentioning a pug group.
Which lead people to search for exploits, it's absurd that a dungeon is designate to 9200 GS and be able to clear with 13K+.

In case you are one of the majority who doesn't have perfects and rank 10's, I wish you the best of luck fighting Draco!

jacksoon · October 2013

sslothzz wrote: »

Good players will adapt.
Don't know about CN, but Karru also had some wall fixes. Yesterday we made our first after-patch run and found other ways

Exploits are here to stay until dungeon mechanics is changed. And i'm not even mad about this fact - i will support it until boss fights become something interesting instead of insane kiting.

Since you found new bug, send a ticket fast so they can fix it soon. Don't wait too much time, we need fix on dungeon so they will start work on adds. I think's tomrrow to run CM all the day to see if there some new glitch to get fixed, bored to see on chat " know jump", "know bug". That is really pissing off

yokihiro · October 2013

Putting walls all over won't fix anything in the long run. If they really want to fix dungeons they need to fix mechanics, not loopholes.

Examples:

- Campfire suicides at some walls to spawn somewhere else --> Fix it by activating spawn points by clicking campfires (like you click on a chest) which would only be possible outside of combat, when you don't attack, when you team is not fighting etc. If you don'T activate a campfire you spawn back.

- Attack bosses from various locations where you are save and they take the damage --> Change the boss mechanic. Whenever a boss takes damage but doesn't deal damage back in a certain amount and a certain time (aka you bug him) he just resets his health every 10 seconds.

- Skip half the dungeon by running through mobs and don't kill them --> Either show up every mob that wasn't killed in the next boss fight. So if you haven't killed 30 mobs that stand around before you enter the first boss those 30 mobs would be placed randomly, too, next to the boss on top of the adds that spawn anyway. Or implement a spawn counter. When you don't kill 80-90% of the mobs before going to the boss fight you won't spawn the boss at all.

In the end only mechanics changes will solve exploits not putting invisible stuff everywhere.

hmdq · October 2013

Very good fixes! Congrats Cryptic! Next step = STOP the fast zerg duch runs!

chemboy613 · October 2013

I'm sure my group and I will find a way to clear draco soon - we are working hard on it and we _will_ pull it off.

But there has to be something between relatively easy (used to clear CN 5-10 times a day) to what it is now (almost unreasonably hard).

Anyone tried epic dread vault fight, BTW? it is absolutely possible, but really?

I mean if the options are either a) glitch or b) get a team with perfect enchants and rank 10s to play absolutely perfect for 20 minutes, both options are unreasonable. There must be a third way.

There is another question, if _everything_ that is actually profitable is so amazingly hard that I have to have every item in the game to have a shot, why keep playing? If I need perfect rank 10s and perfect enchants, how am I going to get the 150-200M AD to make that happen?

I am not saying it should be _easy_, and honestly if your wizards got their timing down, it was pretty easy before, but it should be reasonable. As it is now, some fights in this game are not reasonable and if I'm sitting on 5 60s, with gear, with pretty good enchants, why should I spend my time banking my head against an (invisible) wall?

diogene0 · October 2013

iergo wrote: »

Keep this up, with reporting to the community hidden fixes. Thanks. However, this does nothing to CN. Just repel mobs old style or deal with them normal way. If your team has bad CW's then all CW's slot steal time and run with cleric with 4 cw 1 dc team. Anyhow, peace outside I'm about to go do CN soon.

Oh btw MC already has another one lmao, just not sure if people will share so easily though.

Don't forget: No Bragging about having an exploit.;)

I've heard about the new MC exploit and i'm eagerly waiting for an opportunity to report it!

yokihiro wrote: »

Putting walls all over won't fix anything in the long run. If they really want to fix dungeons they need to fix mechanics, not loopholes.

Examples:

- Campfire suicides at some walls to spawn somewhere else --> Fix it by activating spawn points by clicking campfires (like you click on a chest) which would only be possible outside of combat, when you don't attack, when you team is not fighting etc. If you don'T activate a campfire you spawn back.

- Attack bosses from various locations where you are save and they take the damage --> Change the boss mechanic. Whenever a boss takes damage but doesn't deal damage back in a certain amount and a certain time (aka you bug him) he just resets his health every 10 seconds.

- Skip half the dungeon by running through mobs and don't kill them --> Either show up every mob that wasn't killed in the next boss fight. So if you haven't killed 30 mobs that stand around before you enter the first boss those 30 mobs would be placed randomly, too, next to the boss on top of the adds that spawn anyway. Or implement a spawn counter. When you don't kill 80-90% of the mobs before going to the boss fight you won't spawn the boss at all.

In the end only mechanics changes will solve exploits not putting invisible stuff everywhere.

I guess they're still thinking adding (pointless and i completely agree, since i'm quite good at exploits, even if i don't enjoy at all using them) invisible walls is cost efficient, but it's not. It's an endless race between exploiters and developers, and it's an unfair war. Players have infinite resources, the devs don't. Dungeons are currently full of holes, and geometry is badly broken. They fixed spider for the 7-8th time maybe and another workaround was found this weekend. They have to develop new weapons, which means new anti cheating programs, if they want to be done with this issue and do something else.

chemboy613 · October 2013

I don't love the exploits either and I absolutely LOVE the idea of fighting things straight up, and I think the bosses are fun and i like fighting them,

but what i don't like is an endless sea of adds that take forever to kill. I would rather that draco one shot anyone than have 6 unhallowed whights, 6 red wizards, 20 soldiers and 10 archers to plow through. If the intention was not to throw them, and kiting is impossible, what then? pile them up and kill them? love to see the developers try that.

vorphied · October 2013

Sometimes I think they try so hard to can exploits that they overlook the importance of making the dungeon accessible (note: not cakewalk, but at least accessible) to players who don't already have gear equivalent to or better than what that dungeon has to offer.

Or at least adjust the GS requirement on the dungeon for the sake of truth in advertising. Not to say that a 9.2k GS character with a good player behind it can't accomplish something, but a 9.2 GS PUG cannot reasonably complete CN in 1hr 45 min, if at all.

chemboy613 · October 2013

lol, I don't think a 9.2 GS party could complete CN, or MC, or EDV, or well, any T2...

chemboy613 · October 2013

We discuss this in guild often, if we are all experienced, we're on raid call, we played together a lot, we have decent enchants, and we all have 12.5k GS and augments and then... we struggle? lol.. how could someone who hasn't' played together, no augments, not on raid call, and then they have a shot? no.

krinaman · October 2013

chemboy613 wrote: »

I don't love the exploits either and I absolutely LOVE the idea of fighting things straight up, and I think the bosses are fun and i like fighting them,

but what i don't like is an endless sea of adds that take forever to kill. I would rather that draco one shot anyone than have 6 unhallowed whights, 6 red wizards, 20 soldiers and 10 archers to plow through. If the intention was not to throw them, and kiting is impossible, what then? pile them up and kill them? love to see the developers try that.

Pile them up and kill them doesn't work either. They all just respawn.

It's pretty obvious that the intended strategy was throwing them over the edge which would give so a little respite until they spawned again. Combine that with the hands later and it would be a rather challenging fight (hence the reason people exploited it).

Even exploiting it the fight was a good challenge that the vast majority could not complete. Take an inexperienced group in, tell them the exploit, and they will still wipe numerous times learning the fight. Sure once you learned it, had it down, and completely out geared it you could 4 man the fight. But that's normal and to be expected.

The saddest part is as unintended as the fight was when exploited it was easily the best boss fight in the game.

chemboy613 · October 2013

Oh yeah, it was _actually_ fun!

Actually there are some great fights in the T1 dungeons - maybe Mad Dragon is a bit beastly but it is still really fun, but in T2...

PK- what's the point? no loot
FH - I'm so tired of this my eyes bleed
ToS - I haven't fought her more than a few times

But she's seems very not fun
Karru - *yawn*
SP - more annoying than anything else.

And Epid Dread Vault well, if I want to be perfect for a long time, i suppose i could do it... i will do this soon.

Hidden fix list

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