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Is Hrimnir beatable without kiting adds?
arontimes
Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild Users Posts: 0 Arc User
I was wondering, is it possible to beat Hrimnir without kiting the adds, that is, by killing them instead of playing ring around the rosy? Right now, all of the groups I've been in have a GF, DC, or GWF kite the adds in a wide circle around the boss chamber while the rest burn Hrimnir and kill the archers that spawn so the kiter doesn't get peppered to death.
Is it possible without a complete tier 2 set? 9000 gear score? 10000? 11000? I'm thinking that it might be possible for a control wizard to kill the adds before the next wave spawns, provided he has enough crowd control and AoE.
What do you think?
Is it possible without a complete tier 2 set? 9000 gear score? 10000? 11000? I'm thinking that it might be possible for a control wizard to kill the adds before the next wave spawns, provided he has enough crowd control and AoE.
What do you think?
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There are a number of fights in the game I wouldn't bother fighting the adds and Hrimnir is one of them.
The other main one I would never fight the adds in is Hand of Magera but there are a few other iffy ones which I feel it is superior to simply kite rather than trying to kull down the mobs.
Not worth the effort to dps the CC-immune mobs as well as try to stay alive from the ranged damage.
Agreed.
Until they fix dungeon mechanics to reward players with a reprieve for clearing adds, there is absolutely no point in fighting them when you don't have to. Complete waste of time when they respawn seconds after death and drop nothing of value.
Contagion - Cleric
Testament - Wizard
Pestilence - Ranger
Dominion - Paladin
NIGHTSWATCH
Yes, this was 3 competent wizzards, all was 11.5-14k GS, all was full HV, yet it's easier if a CW kites...
Basicly this is since the CC-immune Ice Golems will use their AoE, which you has to dodge, and the boss will use his, which means the CW's 1. has to stay away from the boss so the TR's can DPS alone w/o Ice Golem AoE's, and 2. you will have to dodge, a lot.. while killing archers quickly.. and not being hit by the Ice Golems.. and not going to close to the boss.. while killing them..
At the moment I hardly doubt the FH can be done the normal way. Those trolls just heal up too fast when you don't focus them and the golems have so many hitpoints that you could fight the adds the whole day without doing damage to the boss. Additionally you can't cast while running and once you have adds sticking onto you as a DC you can't hardly heal, you are not able to build lots of Divine or AP.
Those massive adds should really be looked into in all of the dungeons. Boss fights in Neverwinter just don't feel "epic" to me. Too many trash mobs you need to fight. Too much running, too much dodging. I wan't to fight epic mobs so it feels that you really fight an epic battle. I could even live with fights were a certain amount of adds spawn in waves but at some point it is just over.
I'd really like to see some kind of phases at the boss fights. Like in skirmishes. First wave of adds, then you kill a boss until he loses 25% of his health, then adds again, then boss etc. Make a phase where you must dodge red areas for like 30 seconds. The current state of boss fights is awful. This is the only thing I hate abut this game.
But then how do you get the loot?
Adds don't drop loot.
On top of that, as some others have stated, adds in boss fights really don't work in a manner that rewards killing adds in any way. The adds will continue to spawn shortly after dispatching them no matter how much damage the boss takes, and this is true for every single boss fight with a few exceptions such as Malabogs and Spellplague.
If I was designing the combat of the game I would create adds to be a barrier that would discourage people from using a DPS race tactic. The way they are set up is actually as a general difficulty modifier. A permanent ficture to make killing the boss more challenging no matter what the party does.
If you didn't touch Hrimnir for a half an hour and just killed the adds you would never see an end to the onslought. They would just keep coming until (and sadly due to a long standing but, after) you killed Hrimnir.
As such, fights like the end boss fight of Frozen Heart and Hand of Magera are best dealt with by having somebody like a Guardian Fighter waving a big banner and leading a parade. Killing the adds won't make the fight any easier or remove any level of danger for the group.
Alternatively leading the parade can at least keep the party safe from the dangers of splats and other irritations. Essentially it's using the GF as a distraction the way it feels like the adds were meant to be a distraction.
If you're familiar with League of Legends I can equate Neverwinter's adds to the League of Legends Champion "Singed." The old adage is "Don't chase Singed" yet he is there to be annoying, in your face and make you want to forget the adage and kill him. That's what the adds are. They are in your face, annoying, and they make you think that killing them would make life easier but it doesn't.
So unfortunately this is how it will remain until the boss fight mechanics are changed so that a group could kill the adds to make the fight longer but easier rather than simply longer and just as difficult, or rather in reality more difficult since longer fights create more chances to have critical mistakes which cost lives.
Actually it's other way around. If we count all bosses and all variations (epic and normal) then non-stop spawning adds are exception. There are more boss fights with 1/2, 1/3 or 1/4 rule.
To be honest that final boss fight with Hrimnir is the main reason, why I don't like that dungeon.
Incorrect.
There are 1/2, 1/3 and 1/4 rules on top of infinite add spawns.
Pirate King - Spawns spectres at health intervals.
Frozen Heat - Spawns additional ice Golems at health intervals
Spellplague - 1/4 additional add spawns
Spider - Transforms at 1/2 health
Karrundax - Leaves combat at 1/2 health, spawns adds.
Dread Vault - Not sure as I hate this dungeon with a passion
All of those fights, every one of them, have continuous add spawns. The only difference is that Frozen Heart is plagued by a bug which allows the adds to spawn even after the fight has concluded. However every single boss fight is plagued by a continuous stream of adds and in no moderate number.
There is no point in which you can kill the adds of the fight and simply remain in the room with simply the boss left. Even if you managed to kill the adds in any one of those fights without ever touching the boss the room would rapidly repopulate with adds because the number of add spawns are only spiked at health intervals. They are not reliant on it.
If you really want to see just how true this is enter any boss fight and don't fight the boss. Simply kill the adds without ever once touching the boss. You'll slowly but surely get overrun depending on how competantly your team can burn down the adds withn a few minutes.
Health intervals, one which would promote strategy, would allow players to slow down on boss DPS in order to keep the mobs at a manageable amount whenever they desired but I promise you that what I have said is completely true and accurate. Short of the health interval spikes (which are normally mild) there are 10--20 adds in every single fight which will continuously respawn within 10 seconds of their death from the start of the fight until the death of the boss.
But once the boss goes down adds should:
1. Don't spawn anymore (the fight is lost, why keep coming?).
2. Lose their interest in fighting (some should flee and then despawn).
3. Get weaker due to their boss not buffing up their morale anymore (so most of the remaining adds should go down much faster because they have lowered DEF and deal less damage).
Lol so true, I hate being against singed especially in 3v3 =P
Maybe with the broken HV stacking to 70 you could kill adds with 3 CW's but outside of that those golems just have too much health and pretty much every attack from them is a prone.
We are definitely dominating, and we are always about to win.
Let me quote part of my original message "If we count all bosses and all variations (epic and normal)", so I'm counting all bosses not just final ones and on both difficulties. I finished all dungeons on epic and normal and it's like that. Timed spawns are minority.
A boss mechanic I'd like to see is few, slowly re-spawning, high damage, high HP adds, which are fast, basically forcing the player to actively kill them to not wipe, either have them perma die, and let the boss summon more (possibly interruptible (imagine a giant wolf howling for more, just to get interrupted by the players high DPS)) and/or let them spawn at certain %. This would make killing the adds a much more necessary and useful than like now ignoring them.
Another mechanic I'd like to see is letting the adds be a part of the boss, like Phalanx in Demon's Souls , for you who haven't played that wonderful game, the boss is basicly a defenseless giant blob, covered in hoplites, which you need to kill to be able to touch the boss, and of course, these hoplites aren't as timid and defenseless as their master.. Don't say they should copy this, just saying that this kind of fight could be interesting, basicly, make the adds a part of the bossfight, not an addition to make things harder, make them matter.
in DDo, of all the end game content to run, i can only think of 2 dungeons that required any lvl of kiting - the second boss in tower of Dispare originally required kiting all the shadows while the boss was defeated, however, a cold resisant Necro Mage would be able to grab aggro and hold the shadows once the method was devised. Also in hound, there was some level of kiting mobs away from the boss, but again, the only way to defeat the Hound was to kill the mindflayer adds, grab a stone the dropped, charm the 'puppy' hounds and have them attack the 'Boss' Hound. The charm only lasted so long so if you did not do this properly, it would be a wipe (unless someone went to obtain stones for more charms) but anyway, there was a learning curve and trick to every boss fight and it felt much closer to D&D.
I have not seen any of these 'boss mechanics' in the NW content (maybe i am missing it) but there was something you could learn and party requests were more about a given class knowing its role to complete.
the thing I find most frustrating is that you can run a Dungeon 4 or 5 times and it is not like you learn something that will help you beat the instance, it seems more about party strength/knowing the glich and less about a knowledgeable progression that i would expect. FH, for instance, is all about knowing how to aggro and kite the mobs. a group unable to do this will never complete and there does not seem to be a 'better way' we can discover.
There's a huge difference between Heroic, Epic T1 and Epic T2.
The question of adds hardly even comes up in any heroic. This thread is clearly not about heroic dungeons.
And T1 dungeons are so easy I don't even count them as epic more often than not.
Sure if you count the stupidly easy fights there are few adds, but they are stupidly easy for a reason.
In the real Neverwinter Endgame, which honestly doesn't include T1, Malabogs is the only non-add fest.
I was only in DV normal, but there it don't seem to be a mobterror.
And yeah. The T1 Idris for example i LOVE IT. The 2 hulks are so easy to avoid. I solo the boss - if i don't get kicked...
Malabog is fine. ^^ If they fix the exploit which enable to kill Fulminorax under the bottom without any possibility to get hurt.