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GF and GWF: Possible Paragon Options
lobo0084
Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 663 Bounty Hunter
I'm digging through the old manuals and realizing just how much this game draws from the 4e books. I came across the Swordmaster and Iron Vanguard, which keep fairly close to their mark even with the modifications. So I got to thinking, what would our options be from here?
Remember that Paragon Paths are generally very basic, high-level expansions on current classes. In DnD, they include a few new encounter abilities and/or dailies, and several new class features for the player to choose from. It's a small amount of personalization, and the abilities are of a slightly better grade than what you normally see.
Also note that Guardian Fighter and Swordmaster are two of five 'sub-classes' of the Fighter class, which also includes Battlerager, Tempest, and Brawling fighters. All are considered defenders first and foremost.
Swordmaster (Players Deluxe Handbook pg 88)
Just to make some observations, it seems that Flourish should 1s stun nearby enemies (not the enemy you attacked), Crescendo should be an AOE that generates AP the more enemies you hit (and increases recharge time if you miss) instead of a single-target attack, and our at will should be 'Precision Cut', an attack that applies a small bleed with each hit, instead of Weapon Master Strike (though I guess WMS and it's DR reduction to our at-wills kinda does the same thing, in general).
Steel Blitz should generate AP or increase encounter recharge time with each crit. Steel Defense is spot on. And Steel Grace is a random fill in for what the book covers, which would replace a base attack with an at-will, something that doesn't sync in NWO. I guess 10% control resists is better than nothing.
Kensei (Players Deluxe Handbook, Pg 87)
Seems a little odd to me. Always skipped over this path. But essentially, this guy is supposed to just be really good wielding his weapon of choice. Probably more of a GF path, since GWF are already swordmasters.
Class Features
- Kensei Control Action: Allows to reroll any roll. How in the world would they translate that one, I don't know.
- Kensei Focus: Increased attack with your weapon. Not terribly creative.
- Kensei Mastery: Even more damage. Yeah, I see why we don't have this paragon path yet.
Encounters
- Masterstroke: Heavy single target attack, probably very high damage. No added benefit.
Daily
- Ultimate Parry: Increases deflection for short period while encounter is active. Not useful for GF's, I guess. May even completely remove damage, akin to the GWF class feature.
- Weaponsoul Dance: Hit one target, and immediately jump to a second target within range. Might be interesting to chain strikes against multiple targets.
Pit Fighter (Players Deluxe Handbook, pg 87)
Immediately makes me think GWF. Supposed to be a dirty, underhanded sort.
Class Features
- Armor Optimization: Better AC with armor.
- Extra Damage Action: Extra damage when AP is spent, so essentially, more powerful dailies.
- Dirty Fighting: Increases damage when you deal damage, but sounds more like increases damage when you CC an enemy.
Encounter
- All Bets are Off: A solid attack followed by a short daze as you punch your opponent in the face.
Daily
- Deadly Payback: Enemy hits you, gets marked for a few seconds. Sounds like a better class feature.
- Lion of Battle: Solid attack, if it finishes an opponent, gives you a second attack and pushes an enemy away from you. Kill one opponent, immediately attack another nearby target and then push them. Sounds fun.
Avenging Slayer (Martial Power I, pg 24)
Sounds very sword and shield oriented, to me. All fear and punishment, etc, etc. Like an athiests paladin or something. Nice class features, though mark heavy.
Class Features
- Slayers Action: Gain combat advantage for a short time after you do a daily or against marked enemies.
- Bloodies Edge: When you have combat advantage, get extra damage depending on charisma score (wut???).
- Brutal Justice: After killing a marked target, get extra damage for a short time.
Encounter
- Comeuppance Strike: Hit one target, and reduce the defenses of all targets near that target for a short while. Sounds like another form of Weapon Master Strike, and maybe a great at-will.
Daily
- Looming Justice: Move enemies you have marked that aren't attacking you. Maybe better to pull them to you, ala singularity. Maybe a decent encounter.
- Ruthless Outburst: Short AOE that causes a bleed. Probably better as a good daily.
Dreadnought (Martial Power I, pg 25)
I thought that was a sentinel GWF? Jokes aside, this is almost written as a GWF paragon. 'Jagannash the Unstoppable'? Dwarf with a greataxe? Yeah, it is.
Class Features
- Dreadnought Action: Increases Damage Resistance when you use a daily. Jeez, think they could come up with something new.
- Unfailing Resources: Increases total Hitpoints. Seriously, it boosts your HP. How straightforward is that? Oh, it also gives you a free action to spend this hp on and ... HAMSTER, just boost hp.
- Critical Hardening: Ooh, damage resistance boost when you crit. Um ...
Encounter
- Inexorable Advance: You can swing your weapon while slowly walking forward in a small cone in front of you against one or two enemies. That should be an at-will.
Daily
- Blood Iron: Increases damage resistance for the rest of the fight. Sounds like it would be better as a short heal and dr buff, to me, on a very long 15s cooldown. Encounter all the way.
- Line-Breaker Assault: Knockback and a short daze, with a bonus DR boost to you. Not sure if that's a good daily or not. Maybe a better encounter than Blood Iron.
Dread Reaper (Martial Power I, pg 26)
Definitely another GWF line. Specifically focused on two-handed weapons.
Class Features
- Reapers Action: A GWF daily (two handed weapon requirement), does extra damage to enemies near you.
- Impending Slaughter: When you attack enemies marked by you, you can knock them prone. But GWF marks suck so bad ...
- Reaping Cleave: Hitting an enemy with an at-will does damage to enemies near you.
Encounter
- Reaping Lunge: This is definitely a threat generator. Hit a single target, and it's supposed to attack you or you get to hit it again. That translates to threat of NPC's, and for PvP, extra damage output against that target unless it hits you next.
- Reapers Warning: Apply an aoe mark on nearby targets for a short while.
Daily
- Blood Harvest: AOE attack that provides a bleed. Simple enough.
Knight Protector (Martial Power I, pg 30)
Um, GF? Yeah, GF. Hardcore GF.
Class Features
- Protector's Action: +5 AC boost to all allies in range when you launch a daily. That. Sounds. Amazing!
- Devoted Protector: When a marked enemy that is nearby attacks an ally, you get to interrupt the attack by sliding to that enemies position. Sounds like a better move to apply a small chunk of damage to marked enemies who attack friends, to me.
- Knight's Focus: +2 to allies AC when you get an attack of opportunity. Better put, if you attack a target that you have combat advantage on, your allies get a bonus to AC. That rocks.
Encounter
- Protector's Strike: Deal extra damage to any target that recently did damage to an ally.
- Knightly Bulwark: Pull an ally to you to absorb their attack. That could be useful in the big red circle scenarios.
Daily
- Blood Justice: Rush to and push an enemy who recently hit an ally. Sounds like a current GF move, minus the ally attack part.
Shield Adept (Martial Power I, pg 33)
Another GF dedicated paragon.
Class Features
- Covering Action: Boosts resists against ranged and area of effect attacks.
- Shield Bearer's Payback: Extra damage against enemies who attacked allies recently.
- Shielded Stamina: Get extra defense during block. Woot.
Encounter
- Sudden Shield Bash: Marked enemy attacks a buddy, you stun him with your shield. Maybe a decent at-will attack that gets a boost if you hit a marked enemy by stunning them too.
Daily
- Shield Wall: Gives a boost to local allies and yourself against ranged and AOE attacks. I can see this being a five second daily that players use to save their buddies.
- Reverberating Shield: Hit a target with your shield, dazing them and lowering their DR. Encounter ability, definitely.
Shock Trooper (Martial Power I, pg 34)
Definitely a single-target, fast attack paragon. More damage oriented. Possibly GF or GWF, either way.
Class Features
- Footwork Action: Bonus to AC and Deflect when you use a daily. Any attacks that are dodged or deflected allow you to move faster for a short period of time.
- Deadly Soldier: Increased damage with off hand weapons. Sounds like a full rework here.
- Quicker Death: When you have combat advantage, receive extra damage increase.
Encounter
- Shocking Twister: Um, this has the current Stunning Flourish written all over it. In fact, it's almost exactly what Stunning Flourish is now.
Daily
- Assault Footwork: Full rework. Talks about stances and misses (we know that don't happen in NWO).
- Shocking Skewer: Pulls a foe towards you and stabs them. Kinda like Savage Advance, only it's just the pull. Could be a good daily for single target.
Glorious Myrmidon (Martial Power II, pg 23)
An arrogant guy, the description and pictures seems to want you to think of Brad Pitt's role of Achilies in Troy. More GF, maybe?
Class Features
- Myrmidon's Action: Super speed when you launch a daily.
- Battle Agility: No speed penalty when you wear scale. Maybe more stamina?
- Myrmidon Athleticism: Another speed boost.
Encounters
- Charge to Glory: A short charge and prone attack.
- Exult in Victory: Kill an enemy, automatically regenerate stamina. Nice.
Daily
- Moment of Triumph: Short period bonus to attacks and all defenses.
Warhound of Bane (Martial Power II, pg 29)
Don't ask me. This whole description was littered with RP. Definitely a GF paragon, though.
Class Features
- Determined Action: Regain HP when you use a Daily.
- Revitalized Offense: Do extra damage with self heal abilities.
- Iron Determination: Bonus resistance to CC with a shield.
Encounter
- Warhound's Wrath: An attack with a self heal.
- Bane's Fortune: Boosts attack of friends, and debuffs marked enemies.
Daily
- Triumphant Strike: Heavy hit against a target, and debuff for local enemies.
Remember that Paragon Paths are generally very basic, high-level expansions on current classes. In DnD, they include a few new encounter abilities and/or dailies, and several new class features for the player to choose from. It's a small amount of personalization, and the abilities are of a slightly better grade than what you normally see.
Also note that Guardian Fighter and Swordmaster are two of five 'sub-classes' of the Fighter class, which also includes Battlerager, Tempest, and Brawling fighters. All are considered defenders first and foremost.
Swordmaster (Players Deluxe Handbook pg 88)
Just to make some observations, it seems that Flourish should 1s stun nearby enemies (not the enemy you attacked), Crescendo should be an AOE that generates AP the more enemies you hit (and increases recharge time if you miss) instead of a single-target attack, and our at will should be 'Precision Cut', an attack that applies a small bleed with each hit, instead of Weapon Master Strike (though I guess WMS and it's DR reduction to our at-wills kinda does the same thing, in general).
Steel Blitz should generate AP or increase encounter recharge time with each crit. Steel Defense is spot on. And Steel Grace is a random fill in for what the book covers, which would replace a base attack with an at-will, something that doesn't sync in NWO. I guess 10% control resists is better than nothing.
Kensei (Players Deluxe Handbook, Pg 87)
Seems a little odd to me. Always skipped over this path. But essentially, this guy is supposed to just be really good wielding his weapon of choice. Probably more of a GF path, since GWF are already swordmasters.
Class Features
- Kensei Control Action: Allows to reroll any roll. How in the world would they translate that one, I don't know.
- Kensei Focus: Increased attack with your weapon. Not terribly creative.
- Kensei Mastery: Even more damage. Yeah, I see why we don't have this paragon path yet.
Encounters
- Masterstroke: Heavy single target attack, probably very high damage. No added benefit.
Daily
- Ultimate Parry: Increases deflection for short period while encounter is active. Not useful for GF's, I guess. May even completely remove damage, akin to the GWF class feature.
- Weaponsoul Dance: Hit one target, and immediately jump to a second target within range. Might be interesting to chain strikes against multiple targets.
Pit Fighter (Players Deluxe Handbook, pg 87)
Immediately makes me think GWF. Supposed to be a dirty, underhanded sort.
Class Features
- Armor Optimization: Better AC with armor.
- Extra Damage Action: Extra damage when AP is spent, so essentially, more powerful dailies.
- Dirty Fighting: Increases damage when you deal damage, but sounds more like increases damage when you CC an enemy.
Encounter
- All Bets are Off: A solid attack followed by a short daze as you punch your opponent in the face.
Daily
- Deadly Payback: Enemy hits you, gets marked for a few seconds. Sounds like a better class feature.
- Lion of Battle: Solid attack, if it finishes an opponent, gives you a second attack and pushes an enemy away from you. Kill one opponent, immediately attack another nearby target and then push them. Sounds fun.
Avenging Slayer (Martial Power I, pg 24)
Sounds very sword and shield oriented, to me. All fear and punishment, etc, etc. Like an athiests paladin or something. Nice class features, though mark heavy.
Class Features
- Slayers Action: Gain combat advantage for a short time after you do a daily or against marked enemies.
- Bloodies Edge: When you have combat advantage, get extra damage depending on charisma score (wut???).
- Brutal Justice: After killing a marked target, get extra damage for a short time.
Encounter
- Comeuppance Strike: Hit one target, and reduce the defenses of all targets near that target for a short while. Sounds like another form of Weapon Master Strike, and maybe a great at-will.
Daily
- Looming Justice: Move enemies you have marked that aren't attacking you. Maybe better to pull them to you, ala singularity. Maybe a decent encounter.
- Ruthless Outburst: Short AOE that causes a bleed. Probably better as a good daily.
Dreadnought (Martial Power I, pg 25)
I thought that was a sentinel GWF? Jokes aside, this is almost written as a GWF paragon. 'Jagannash the Unstoppable'? Dwarf with a greataxe? Yeah, it is.
Class Features
- Dreadnought Action: Increases Damage Resistance when you use a daily. Jeez, think they could come up with something new.
- Unfailing Resources: Increases total Hitpoints. Seriously, it boosts your HP. How straightforward is that? Oh, it also gives you a free action to spend this hp on and ... HAMSTER, just boost hp.
- Critical Hardening: Ooh, damage resistance boost when you crit. Um ...
Encounter
- Inexorable Advance: You can swing your weapon while slowly walking forward in a small cone in front of you against one or two enemies. That should be an at-will.
Daily
- Blood Iron: Increases damage resistance for the rest of the fight. Sounds like it would be better as a short heal and dr buff, to me, on a very long 15s cooldown. Encounter all the way.
- Line-Breaker Assault: Knockback and a short daze, with a bonus DR boost to you. Not sure if that's a good daily or not. Maybe a better encounter than Blood Iron.
Dread Reaper (Martial Power I, pg 26)
Definitely another GWF line. Specifically focused on two-handed weapons.
Class Features
- Reapers Action: A GWF daily (two handed weapon requirement), does extra damage to enemies near you.
- Impending Slaughter: When you attack enemies marked by you, you can knock them prone. But GWF marks suck so bad ...
- Reaping Cleave: Hitting an enemy with an at-will does damage to enemies near you.
Encounter
- Reaping Lunge: This is definitely a threat generator. Hit a single target, and it's supposed to attack you or you get to hit it again. That translates to threat of NPC's, and for PvP, extra damage output against that target unless it hits you next.
- Reapers Warning: Apply an aoe mark on nearby targets for a short while.
Daily
- Blood Harvest: AOE attack that provides a bleed. Simple enough.
Knight Protector (Martial Power I, pg 30)
Um, GF? Yeah, GF. Hardcore GF.
Class Features
- Protector's Action: +5 AC boost to all allies in range when you launch a daily. That. Sounds. Amazing!
- Devoted Protector: When a marked enemy that is nearby attacks an ally, you get to interrupt the attack by sliding to that enemies position. Sounds like a better move to apply a small chunk of damage to marked enemies who attack friends, to me.
- Knight's Focus: +2 to allies AC when you get an attack of opportunity. Better put, if you attack a target that you have combat advantage on, your allies get a bonus to AC. That rocks.
Encounter
- Protector's Strike: Deal extra damage to any target that recently did damage to an ally.
- Knightly Bulwark: Pull an ally to you to absorb their attack. That could be useful in the big red circle scenarios.
Daily
- Blood Justice: Rush to and push an enemy who recently hit an ally. Sounds like a current GF move, minus the ally attack part.
Shield Adept (Martial Power I, pg 33)
Another GF dedicated paragon.
Class Features
- Covering Action: Boosts resists against ranged and area of effect attacks.
- Shield Bearer's Payback: Extra damage against enemies who attacked allies recently.
- Shielded Stamina: Get extra defense during block. Woot.
Encounter
- Sudden Shield Bash: Marked enemy attacks a buddy, you stun him with your shield. Maybe a decent at-will attack that gets a boost if you hit a marked enemy by stunning them too.
Daily
- Shield Wall: Gives a boost to local allies and yourself against ranged and AOE attacks. I can see this being a five second daily that players use to save their buddies.
- Reverberating Shield: Hit a target with your shield, dazing them and lowering their DR. Encounter ability, definitely.
Shock Trooper (Martial Power I, pg 34)
Definitely a single-target, fast attack paragon. More damage oriented. Possibly GF or GWF, either way.
Class Features
- Footwork Action: Bonus to AC and Deflect when you use a daily. Any attacks that are dodged or deflected allow you to move faster for a short period of time.
- Deadly Soldier: Increased damage with off hand weapons. Sounds like a full rework here.
- Quicker Death: When you have combat advantage, receive extra damage increase.
Encounter
- Shocking Twister: Um, this has the current Stunning Flourish written all over it. In fact, it's almost exactly what Stunning Flourish is now.
Daily
- Assault Footwork: Full rework. Talks about stances and misses (we know that don't happen in NWO).
- Shocking Skewer: Pulls a foe towards you and stabs them. Kinda like Savage Advance, only it's just the pull. Could be a good daily for single target.
Glorious Myrmidon (Martial Power II, pg 23)
An arrogant guy, the description and pictures seems to want you to think of Brad Pitt's role of Achilies in Troy. More GF, maybe?
Class Features
- Myrmidon's Action: Super speed when you launch a daily.
- Battle Agility: No speed penalty when you wear scale. Maybe more stamina?
- Myrmidon Athleticism: Another speed boost.
Encounters
- Charge to Glory: A short charge and prone attack.
- Exult in Victory: Kill an enemy, automatically regenerate stamina. Nice.
Daily
- Moment of Triumph: Short period bonus to attacks and all defenses.
Warhound of Bane (Martial Power II, pg 29)
Don't ask me. This whole description was littered with RP. Definitely a GF paragon, though.
Class Features
- Determined Action: Regain HP when you use a Daily.
- Revitalized Offense: Do extra damage with self heal abilities.
- Iron Determination: Bonus resistance to CC with a shield.
Encounter
- Warhound's Wrath: An attack with a self heal.
- Bane's Fortune: Boosts attack of friends, and debuffs marked enemies.
Daily
- Triumphant Strike: Heavy hit against a target, and debuff for local enemies.
"Every adventurer has two things in common: they don't like dying, and they love getting paid. The rest is just semantics." Brecken, famed mercenary of Baldur's Gate
"D*mn wizards," said Morik the Rogue.
Learn what a GWF and GF really are: The History of Fighters
"D*mn wizards," said Morik the Rogue.
Learn what a GWF and GF really are: The History of Fighters
Post edited by lobo0084 on
0
Comments
That said, there are very few that are limited one way or another. And if they want a few 'unique' paragon options for each class, with room to expand into the other fighter sub-classes someday, we'll need to keep it down to maybe two per class.
Guardian Fighter Paragons (sword and shield required): Shield Adept, Warhound of Bane
Great Weapon Fighter Paragons (two-handed weapon required): Dread Reaper, Dreadnought
To top all this off, they'll probably generate an at-will for each paragon path (something not included in the book rules), and curb the class features a bit for NWO.
Dailies are another matter. The way NWO handles dailies, they are almost all major attacks. But in DnD 4e, they are as often as not really good boosts and buffs that help either you or the whole party. That could be useful, I think, but it would be a different way of doing things than what is currently the norm.
"D*mn wizards," said Morik the Rogue.
Learn what a GWF and GF really are: The History of Fighters
Here's the thing, though: the GWF don't have much of anything to do with the Barbarian class. Their encounters, feats and design are all drawing very heavily from the GWF subclass and the Fighter class. Even Unstoppable, which is an encounter ability (iirc), is in line with how GWF's are built. A class split fairly evenly across damage, tank, and control abilities.
The more I'm re-reading, the more I'm understanding that it's not Cryptic that's doing it wrong, but the players like myself making the wrong assumptions. I mean, I picked a half-orc and put him in barbarian garb, but this class only remotely resembles what a barbarian is or should be.
I'm going to do another write-up on GWF's and it's comparison in-game to the Fighter class, Great Weapon Fighter subclass put place by Wizards of the Coast. Maybe it can clear up further issues, or at least give a base of understanding to work from.
"D*mn wizards," said Morik the Rogue.
Learn what a GWF and GF really are: The History of Fighters
Doesn't change the fact that class numbers are too skewed/low
D&D Home Page - What Class Are You? - Build A Character - D&D Compendium
I'm not getting your point here, I guess.
"D*mn wizards," said Morik the Rogue.
Learn what a GWF and GF really are: The History of Fighters
"D*mn wizards," said Morik the Rogue.
Learn what a GWF and GF really are: The History of Fighters