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Dahlia's Sabetour Burst DPS (PvP. maybe PvE viable?)

malekhaimalekhai Member Posts: 46
edited October 2013 in The Thieves' Den
Hello all,

I was asked to release this build to the forums, so I will. I will make the best possible attempt at making it organized but no promises. I will try to include all the different options that I feel are possible for this build. Unfortunately the pics came out a bit oversized and my new PC doesn't have any photo/cropping abilities yet to my knowledge.

WARNING: THIS BUILD DOES NOT WORK FOR SLOW INTERNET CONNECTIONS! I have tested this at home (High speed with brand new custom built PC) and at school (Slower speeds, over wifi, on stock Asus Laptop). The build will NOT work with slow internet speeds, the deft/impact combo wont be timed correctly and will not work.

EDIT: CORRECTION - DEFT STRIKE/IMPACT WORKS BUT GLOAMING/IMPACT DOES NOT!

EDIT: FIRST VIDEOS UPLOADED

5agpjl.jpg

Quicklink to trees here.

Quicklink vids -

Deft/Impact combo - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VUSXdjGetkM&feature=youtu.be

First vid of build in PvP - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nx5ZuHnkqz0&feature=youtu.be

Part I.) Foreword, Race, Stats, and Skill Tree

1.) Foreword - The goal of this build is to get massive damage output over the course of 2-3 seconds and be able to bail immediately after. You will have to read further to see the full output in the burst, but it ranges from 10k-20k based on what I am attacking (It can also be higher but I based what was stated on 2 impact shots). This is WITHOUT any weapon enchant. After the initial burst you can run away with 65% bonus to run speed (Base, no enchants). This is faster than a base mount, and depending on how you pick it, it can be 80-85% run speed after the burst.

Any ideas and/or suggestions you might have, please wait until you finish reading the entire build. Don't read the foreword and decide "Meh, this sucks! *Posts some flame below*. It is unproductive and unnecessary. That being said I am more than open to constructive criticism and will test out anything within reason.

I will shows which choices I would recommend the most by outlining them green.


2.) Race - I chose a half elf. This was my first character and I didn't know better.

- Option a.) Half Orc - 5% increased severity, always a good option. The 10% run speed bonus also gets the runspeed after the initial assault up to 75% before any movement bonus from enchants.

- Option b.) Human - 3% increased defense wont do much good, but the extra 3 feat points , atleast in my case, would be put towards Improved Cunning sneak for another 12% longer stealth (I have 2/5 in it currently).


3.) Stats - I distributed my points evenly between DEX, CHA, and STR. A good argument could easily be made to go for more CHA as most of the damage will have combat advantage.

STR - Mainly for the increased damage bonus.

DEX - Increased crit, up to you guys to whether you prefer to redistribute these points to CHA and STR for increased damage output.

CHA - [COLOR="#00FF00]Combat advantage bonus. This is pretty big as most damage will be done from stealth or from behind the opponent.[/COLOR]

bikldj.jpg
Pic to give you an idea of my stats currently.


4.) Tree - This is where the build can be altered quite a bit to fit your preference.

i.) Heroic First Row -

a.) Weapon Mastery - [COLOR="#00FF00]increased crit, can't really go wrong there. 3/3[/COLOR]

b.) Toughness - More health, it may not be vital to the build but it helps. 2/3

c.) Action Advantage - I am tempted to redistribute points here. Will be stated below where I would take them from. 0/5


ii.) Heroic Second Row -

a.) Cunning Ambusher - damage increase after leaving stealth. Good bonus considering you will be entering and leaving stealth quite a bit. 3/3

b.) Swift Footwork - Stamina regen. Not vital but it helps. Works very well with Twilight Adept (Third row). This is one place where points could be redistributed to Action Advantage. 2/5

c.) Battlewise - Hah.. Haha.... Rogues? Threat? CWs kinda take all that. Besides the build is more for PvP. 0/3

iii.) Heroic Third Row -

a.) Endless Assault - More damage again, good route to go. 3/3

b.) Twilight Adept - Restores stealth from rolls. Eh. Its good but the points could be but to better use in Action Advantage. Personal preference. 2/5

c.) Lucky Ambusher - I don't focus deflect and 3% isn't that big of a bonus. 0/3


iv.) Heroic Fourth Row -

a.) Scoundrel Training - At wills don't play a very large part in this build. It would make it more PvE viable though. 0/3

b.) Disciple of Strength - Increase damage. I am unsure exactly how much of a bonus this gives, so the points could be swapped to scoundrel training or more points in Improved Cunning Sneak. 3/3

c.) Improved Cunning Sneak - Extended stealth, great for running away or sneaking in. If I had a Human this is where the 3 extra points would go. Any number of points you don't want in other places could be redistributed here.


v.) Paragon Feats - These will be listed unlike the heroic feats. I will not be listing all of the feats like before but rather the options you could switch to. You'll have to look up the feats yourself Prepare for mega formatting changes!!! :P

a.) Speed Swindle - Increased run speed for you, lower for attacker. Contributes to the massive run speed bonus. This also provides the points to get up to the 4th tier in Sabetour. I think that for this build this is a must but if I had to switch it I would take Nimble Dodge. 5/5

b.) Cunning Stalker - 20% more AP. This means more Shockings. Which in turn means more kills without taking damage! Hurray! I don't think there is a better option, or an alternative. 5/5

c.) Expert Sneak - 10% more run speed in stealth. At this point you hit 65% in stealth easily. 5% target damage reduction is minimal but it helps. I wouldn't put the points in anything else as you need 5 more to get to tier 4 Sabetour. 5/5

d.) Sneak of Shadows - 10% more damage while stealthed. This is debatable, as it states while stealthed. I am unsure if this means it doesn't provide the bonus to encounters that end stealth or not. I am seriously considering swapping this to Nimble Blade in the Scoundrel tree. (I will actually list this one below). Personal Preference 5/5

Nimble Blade -35% chance to deal 20% more damage on non critical. Has potential. Lotsa potential. Could very well make up for Sneak of shadows. Maybe change to this? Personal preference

e.) Unerring Ambush - 20% damage bonus to Deft Strike, Blitz, and Dazing Strike FROM stealth. Whooo! This is how/where the main damage will be coming. 5/5

f.) Ruthless Efficiency Capstone - Eh. It relies on a killing blow. Doesn't last long. But 30% increased arp is nice. Could mean another 5% arp if you have 2k arp. From what I have heard it is about 2% more damage to 1% arp? Correct me if I am wrong but this would then mean 10% damage. Great for hitting that second target. 1/1

g.) Underhanded Tactics - 20% more effective Combat Advantage. I am unsure how much more damage this contributes to, but it should be quite a bit as most damage is combat advantage. I wouldn't put these points into anything else. 5/5


vi.) Abilities - I will provide what I use. Anything you want beyond that is personal preference. Abilities used in main rotation will be listed as "MAIN". Alternate abilities listed as "ALTERNATE". Abilities that have an option in my opinion will have an "O" associated with their listing.

a.) Cloud of Steel - MAIN - Its ranged. It does a bunch of damage. Good stuff. 3/3

b.) Dazing Strike - ALTERNATE - Mega damage in this build. Hits as hard as a lashing. Will be further explained in the rotation section. Used in an alternate rotation. 3/3

c.) Bloodbath - MAINO - Second PvP daily. Gives a good stretch of invulnerability if you really need it. Swap it out for something else if you'd like. 3/3

d.) Deft Strike - MAIN - This ability is sheer awesomeness in my opinion. My main ability for PvP. 80' Teleport from stealth? That CW bugging you on a ledge thinking they are safe from the world? No problem. Also with this build I can get 10k crits easy. That is without a vorpal. A normal vorp would get that to around 12k on average (I am using a normal vorpal for realism here as most people cant afford a perfect vorpal). Deft Strike also slows the target considerably (And it does stack with speed swindle, so they pretty much are rooted). So another example, the sent GWF that ran like hell away from a point? 65% run speed in stealth to catch up with an 80' teleport. That is enough to range them after full sprint with battlefury or a 110% mount. And then deft will do about 5k to a sent. I will explain the impact shot use that will finish off the sent later. Yeah I might like this ability a bit judging how much I wrote about it. However as a little goody for you, it gets better once you read the impact shot section. 3/3
e.) Tenacious Concealment - O - I grabbed this just in case. It essentially keeps your stealth from not regenerating. I don't use it much but if I do it is when I am getting focused like none other. 3/3

f.) Duelists Flurry - O - Yeah you would rage if I didn't take this. Don't deny it! It is great for PvE and I use it for that only. 3/3

g.) Blitz - O - Great PvE encounter for this build. It still gets the damage bonus from Sabetour so it does good damage. 3/3

h.) Impossible to Catch - MAINO/ALTERNATEO - Yeah goofy label. I don't use this ability personally, but I think it would be a good replacement for Shadow Strike. 3/3

i.) Gloaming Cut - MAIN - I use this for Executions. Very rarely does it really get used though as I am not usually close enough to use it. 3/3

j.) Impact Shot - MAIN - Fun fact. Did you know Deft Strike's animation allows for an impact shot to be thrown in it? Cool right? Right. So deft strike with an impact. Slowed, interrupted and pushed from a deft/impact combo. And I present another example! A CW standing on point 2 in PvP, just chilling. You are too far away for him to even register you (Most of the time this is the case). Deft/impact, shadow strike, run. They are stunned and most of the time wont even get a hit off in exchange for 50%+ of their health gone, if they aren't wholly killed. Oh and they cant chase you, nor can they catch up to you. Remember that 65% run speed and their speed reduction? Good stuff. Must have ability. 3/3

k.) Sneak Attack - MAIN - 30% run speed bonus in stealth. Kinda contributes to a main factor to the build and is a must have in any scenario. 3/3

l.) Skillful Infiltrator - MAIN - Another 15% run speed. Can swap to Tenacious if you absolutely have to.

m.) Shadow Strike - MAIN - Its use has already been stated above. Will be talked about again in the rotation.

n.) Wicked Reminder - MAIN - PvE only. Most rogues know the use of this ability, and considering it hits multiple targets....

o.) Shocking Execution - MAIN - Well you get pretty much anything to 50% health and you crit on shocking they are kinda dead..... 3/3


That's all for Part 1. Hope you liked what you saw and please remember: Keep the criticism constructive. I am more than willing to look at any ideas you might have for the build.
Post edited by malekhai on

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    malekhaimalekhai Member Posts: 46
    edited October 2013
    Part II.) Main Rotation PvP

    Main Rotation PvP:

    I will go through several different scenarios for my PvP rotation and different uses of each ability for this build. I usually wait to get a feel for each of the opponents before I try a serious 1v1 on a point against them.

    1v1 against a squishy -
    - Stealth (80+' away)

    - position for deft


    - deft strike/impact shot (Click deft and then time the impact Animation for impact completes inside deft strikes animation causing an insta impact shot).

    - As the target is a squishy, just shadow strike and impact again. Most times this will kill the target.

    - Objective complete. Take the point and on to the next

    1v1 against a toughy -

    - stealth

    - Position

    - Deft/Impact

    - Roll away, shadow strike.

    - Stealth, CoS (If GWF wait for Unstoppable to pop and go away to continue)

    - Impact, Impact, Impact. (Wait for a chase to continue)

    - If no chase, deft, impact, shadow strike, impact.

    - If the target is REALLY tough, just build up AP until you have a shocking. You will most likely be fighting on a point anyhow so they aren't getting anything from it anyways.

    - Shocking will finish off more, keep in mind tougher targets will take a little bit longer.

    2+v1 various

    - I prefer hit and run tactics on larger groups. Deft/impact in, shadow strike stealth out. Do this a few times and the group will be weakened enough to finish them off. This is where it gets to be very tough.

    2+v2+ various

    - Deft/impact in, roll out.

    - Repeat. Aim for squishies first.

    Alternate Rotation

    - I wont go into big detail with this one as it is a little bit more difficult to use, but more damage output.

    - Stealth

    - Dazing Strike (Fast animation from being in stealth, but it is still tricky to get the hit in sometimes.)

    - Shadow Strike, stealth

    - Lashing blade

    This should total in around 25k+ damage against dummies. Without a vorpal




    Hopefully I can neaten up this section a bit and make it a little more presentable but this is the basic information.



    Part III.) Gear

    This is personal preference just so everyone knows. You can adjust this however you think would work the best. I am also going to be giving an ESTIMATE of my end game gear/stats (Keep in mind I have no idea if this is exact or not as I am not fully geared yet).

    2/4 Fabled Illy - 450 power bonus

    2/4 Master Assassin - 450 power bonus

    Fabled Fomorian Weapons - (Currently working towards Ancient) (450 Crit bonus)

    Pyrotechnic Ring x2 (Crit arp power)

    As I am not in the client right this second I couldn't tell you the necklace or belt off the top of my head but the belt is blue.

    Enchants
    - Offense slots:
    6 Dark Rank 10s (Currently I have 7 rank 5 darks)

    1 Azure or Radiant rank 10 (Or you can do another dark 10)

    - Defense Slots:

    3 Rank 10 silveries (Deflect is a good back up option. Going Azures for defense would work as well. I don't even know what I have slotted in these at the moment. I think they might even be rank 4s....)


    - Weapon Enchant:

    Perfect Vorpal (50% increased crit severity, need I say more? I am currently at a lesser vorp)

    - Defense Enchant:

    This is where I am really up in the air. I currently use a lesser soulforged but I am tempted to go for a perfect Elven Battle to ensure that I can run away from that pesky CW, this is my last priority at the moment).

    Stats (Estimate for end game)

    Power - 5k (From gear and 2x power set bonus)

    Crit - 3.1k (From gear and set bonus)

    Arp - 2.3k (All enchants pretty much)

    Recovery - .5k

    Defense - 1k (Gear)

    Deflect - 1k (Enchants)

    Regen - 0 (Meh)

    Lifesteal - ?? (Meh)

    Movement - 1k (This gives approximately another 5% run speed I believe.... Pushing the top speed for a human up to 70% run speed.. That means 80% for a half orc... That out runs everything but a 110% mount......)

    To make it more PvE viable I would recommend a stone with pure power. If you focus it enough there is potential for 1.5k+ bonus power - - - 6.5k power with 20% arp in a dungeon... You would hit hard...

    My stats currently

    Power - 4.5k

    Crit - 2.5k

    ARP - 1.2k

    Recovery 1.2k

    Defense - 600

    Deflect - 500

    Lifesteal - ??

    Regen - 0

    Movement - 0
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    delita6delita6 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 14
    edited October 2013
    Interesting I also use my rogue saboteur though and geared more for the perma-stealth and action point and gain a good paragon since it has few feats useless in my opinion (the paragon execution has thrown out 80%)

    So one thing speed swindle in my point of view and that the already useless debuff disappears very fast I put sneaky stabber.

    Also are more focused on STR due to increased stamina regeneration fact I keep the key to stealth without having to invest in INT.
    Harmony
    Server: Rapier
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    todesfaelletodesfaelle Member Posts: 1,370 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    There it is! I like it. :) I like how you are able to give new applications to Impact Shot like that. Good Sab guide and looking forward to updates!

    Edit: A little added info. Dahlia and I have went against each other in a couple of PVP matches and I must say that this build right here works, and it works wonderfully. The neat applications of the powers is best seen live.
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    malekhaimalekhai Member Posts: 46
    edited October 2013
    I hopefully will have a chance to fraps a few videos today and show everyone what I mean by the deft/impact and gloaming/impact combos. Oh and new discovery! Dazing Strike also shortens the animation. Wicked Reminder maybe speeds it up a little but doesn't make it worth it for PvP IMO, might test both of these, might not. I am quite happy with where my build is at now, just working on ancient weapons atm and getting the 2 illy pieces... Then I farm for a vorpal.
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    muhacmuhac Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited October 2013
    I wanted to say thank you for the great guide i was thinking to spec my rogue when i made a new one as Saboteur (u should change the topic name to correct it :)) but went Executioner, still rly nice work and like Banelerone said great way of implementing the Impact Shot. tnx again
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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    malekhaimalekhai Member Posts: 46
    edited October 2013
    The spec is Sabetour...?

    Thanks for the compliment!
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    malekhaimalekhai Member Posts: 46
    edited October 2013
    delita6 wrote: »
    Interesting I also use my rogue saboteur though and geared more for the perma-stealth and action point and gain a good paragon since it has few feats useless in my opinion (the paragon execution has thrown out 80%)

    So one thing speed swindle in my point of view and that the already useless debuff disappears very fast I put sneaky stabber.

    Also are more focused on STR due to increased stamina regeneration fact I keep the key to stealth without having to invest in INT.

    I am not in stealth very much so increased stealth times were not imperative for me. I was thinking STR for increased damage.

    Thanks for the info on Speed Swindle, I have not taken the time to test the debuff length, will have to do so. I think I will remain with it as again the stealth gain is not imperative from Gloaming Cut for this build IMO.
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    malekhaimalekhai Member Posts: 46
    edited October 2013
    First video showing Deft/Impact combo uploaded! Link below

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VUSXdjGetkM&feature=youtu.be

    The vid also shows the damage potential for Deft/Impact. Deft was the 9k crit, impact was the 6.5k crit. That is with a lesser vorpal.

    And I need to make a correction! This combo does NOT work with gloaming cut. Animation goes through as if it does damage but the impact shot stops the damage from going through and applies only Impact Shot Damage.
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    malekhaimalekhai Member Posts: 46
    edited October 2013
    I will hopefully be getting up a full video tonight of full rotations in action in PvP. Depends on if I have time tonight or not
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    malekhaimalekhai Member Posts: 46
    edited October 2013
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nx5ZuHnkqz0&feature=youtu.be

    Heres the link to the first video of the build. At the moment of this posting it still has about 80 minutes until fully uploaded.
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    malekhaimalekhai Member Posts: 46
    edited October 2013
    Upped enchants a little, little bit better damage from increased ARP. Getting the timing a little better down and refining the rotation a bit. Stealth-CoS-deft/impact-roll-shadowstrike-stealth-CoS-impact-impact-roll-repeat. Swapped in duelists for the groups that are a bit tougher as well, takes out the GFs shield a bit faster and gets the bleed DoT up. I am still working out how I prefer to use this in PvP
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    spicenspicen Member Posts: 248 Bounty Hunter
    edited October 2013
    I'm sorry but i laughed to OP. The spec itself is good and stuff, but your desired stats are off. Regen is godly stat, I can't imagine running without it in pvp anymore. Also arp>any other offensive stat. I suggest you atleast give regen a try, I bet you will love it.
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    malekhaimalekhai Member Posts: 46
    edited October 2013
    I will give it a try, would you suggest dropping power for regen/arp then? I don't plan on clearing 2.4k arp, but that will be done with all enchants
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