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what is up with all these topics of nerfs?
gannicsgladiator
Member Posts: 413 Bounty Hunter
I have seen thousands of people asking for nerfing rogues.
and now a bunch are asking to nerf gwfs.
and a few now are starting to ask to nerf CWs(trend that will increase with the new "tanker" cw pvp tene style"
i played this game pvp many times, i fought strong premades, strong guilds. my guild joined the saturday preview server tournament, we did good.
and from all my experience.
the game is balanced on team setup level, and nearly balanced on 1 x 1 level too, which is OK, since we only have team x team modes for now.
what I see here is a bunch of people crying because they want to be able to never die and pwn everyone.
something similar to this:
If a class kill you? NERF IT
if you can't kill a class? nerf it
if you kill a class? I am pro babe
if a class cant kill me? I am pro babe.
another point I see of people here, i see people
with weak gear setup ( I am not even saying score), and weak feats/build setup complaining they get owned by one class, a player that is probably much better geared, much better skilled, and has a more pvp efficient build.
Other point is that I see people trying to be "multitask" with the classes, they try to go beyond the utility of their actual build/gear/class setup to do others task, which they will fail to do and then ask to nerf the classes made them fail
examples: DPS rogues trying to tank a tank gwf/gf in an open close combat, then die and says that the gwf/gf are OP. When they should be trying to kill at distance, when gwf/gf is engaging others targets (come on, its common sense, charisma is big part of a rogue, and combat advantage, and I see dps rogues trying to be "tankers".
Their utility is to kill ppl already engaging in combat, coming as a "nuke", as a support to kill and end a fight, not to tank or 1 x 1...
another example: a DPS/recovery CW which is most as a support DPS and control in most of cases also complaining of dying in a 1 x 1 against others classes.
A Sentinel GWF complaining that he has not DPS to take down a good cleric, or targets being healed by a cleric. You tank, you survive good, and you want dps to kill fast? Not gonna happen dude, even with full tenes.
Besides these examples, there are many others.
and of courses, within the classes, there are the builds/and gears variations.
there are some "regen" rogues, which can be like a "rogue" version of a sentinel gwf. except has lower hp, no unstopable, but more dps and still the stealth and itc. these classes can kill sometimes multiple targets, but struggle to kill a tank. but then, it is the person choice of changing the build for this purpose.
or there is a dps gwf, that wont have the same trouble of a tank GWF to kill a cleric, or a healed target. but will be melt down by others classes, and do really bad on 1 x 1s, or tanking.
As you can see, every class has different purposes, and in each class has different gears/feats setups, which can direct the build toward a new gameplay within that class, but still respecting the limits of the others classes.
I am a sentinel gwf, and I dont want to sound full of myself or anything, but in beholder I haven't seen another gwf that tanks like me, or do 1 x 1 like me. and Still, there're few CWs, rogues that can take up 1x1 with me very well.
My buddy Blacksheep for example, we had a "1x1" of over 20minutes once in tower practicing gvg, and neither of us could die unless one would get support of another team player. in my case, if i get support he would die, and in his case, if a teammate of his come, I would die.
as you can see, i can tank multiple "weak targets" not multiple equal targets. I take longer to die tho, it is true, but its my build, it is my setup and my sacrifice.
tenes do incredible dmg, but it still makes me impossible to kill a good cleric, or some tankers being healed for clerics like Luxury from my guild.
My point is.
A lot of the nerfs people have been asking for is unecessary:
Because classes have different purposes, people should learn the purpose of each class, and respect its limits, that is what make classes work individual. My friend, if you want every class be able to do the same thing the other class can do, its not balance, it becomes boring and stupid. game needs diversity in classes.
people with low gearscore/ or bad gear setup/feat/pvp skills complain to nerf "pvp professionals" yes I like this term. Because there are people that like pvp but they do really bad on it, and there are people that PvP is in their blood.
finally, supposed that the game company respect and do all the nerfs people ask for.
supposed that they make the sentinel tank less, the rogue kill less, cw set nerfed, again,where will be the game diversity? Plus, pvp lovers will always outsmart the people who complain of nerfs.
They will always find a new build and a way out of it, so the baby criers will come back to forum and ask for different nerfs...
that happens all the time.
they nerfed rogues dps a little, slam and gwf, and ppl still found a way out of it, made different builds.
conclusion is the game is balanced for who knows how to play it.
and it is not balanced for who doesn't know how to play it.
Start asking for buffs, not nerfs, it is good, and gives more diversity to the game, more variety of builds. instead decreasing the variety so the game starts to die and gets boring on pvp.
Diablo 3 did that and screwed with their game.
and now a bunch are asking to nerf gwfs.
and a few now are starting to ask to nerf CWs(trend that will increase with the new "tanker" cw pvp tene style"
i played this game pvp many times, i fought strong premades, strong guilds. my guild joined the saturday preview server tournament, we did good.
and from all my experience.
the game is balanced on team setup level, and nearly balanced on 1 x 1 level too, which is OK, since we only have team x team modes for now.
what I see here is a bunch of people crying because they want to be able to never die and pwn everyone.
something similar to this:
If a class kill you? NERF IT
if you can't kill a class? nerf it
if you kill a class? I am pro babe
if a class cant kill me? I am pro babe.
another point I see of people here, i see people
with weak gear setup ( I am not even saying score), and weak feats/build setup complaining they get owned by one class, a player that is probably much better geared, much better skilled, and has a more pvp efficient build.
Other point is that I see people trying to be "multitask" with the classes, they try to go beyond the utility of their actual build/gear/class setup to do others task, which they will fail to do and then ask to nerf the classes made them fail
examples: DPS rogues trying to tank a tank gwf/gf in an open close combat, then die and says that the gwf/gf are OP. When they should be trying to kill at distance, when gwf/gf is engaging others targets (come on, its common sense, charisma is big part of a rogue, and combat advantage, and I see dps rogues trying to be "tankers".
Their utility is to kill ppl already engaging in combat, coming as a "nuke", as a support to kill and end a fight, not to tank or 1 x 1...
another example: a DPS/recovery CW which is most as a support DPS and control in most of cases also complaining of dying in a 1 x 1 against others classes.
A Sentinel GWF complaining that he has not DPS to take down a good cleric, or targets being healed by a cleric. You tank, you survive good, and you want dps to kill fast? Not gonna happen dude, even with full tenes.
Besides these examples, there are many others.
and of courses, within the classes, there are the builds/and gears variations.
there are some "regen" rogues, which can be like a "rogue" version of a sentinel gwf. except has lower hp, no unstopable, but more dps and still the stealth and itc. these classes can kill sometimes multiple targets, but struggle to kill a tank. but then, it is the person choice of changing the build for this purpose.
or there is a dps gwf, that wont have the same trouble of a tank GWF to kill a cleric, or a healed target. but will be melt down by others classes, and do really bad on 1 x 1s, or tanking.
As you can see, every class has different purposes, and in each class has different gears/feats setups, which can direct the build toward a new gameplay within that class, but still respecting the limits of the others classes.
I am a sentinel gwf, and I dont want to sound full of myself or anything, but in beholder I haven't seen another gwf that tanks like me, or do 1 x 1 like me. and Still, there're few CWs, rogues that can take up 1x1 with me very well.
My buddy Blacksheep for example, we had a "1x1" of over 20minutes once in tower practicing gvg, and neither of us could die unless one would get support of another team player. in my case, if i get support he would die, and in his case, if a teammate of his come, I would die.
as you can see, i can tank multiple "weak targets" not multiple equal targets. I take longer to die tho, it is true, but its my build, it is my setup and my sacrifice.
tenes do incredible dmg, but it still makes me impossible to kill a good cleric, or some tankers being healed for clerics like Luxury from my guild.
My point is.
A lot of the nerfs people have been asking for is unecessary:
Because classes have different purposes, people should learn the purpose of each class, and respect its limits, that is what make classes work individual. My friend, if you want every class be able to do the same thing the other class can do, its not balance, it becomes boring and stupid. game needs diversity in classes.
people with low gearscore/ or bad gear setup/feat/pvp skills complain to nerf "pvp professionals" yes I like this term. Because there are people that like pvp but they do really bad on it, and there are people that PvP is in their blood.
finally, supposed that the game company respect and do all the nerfs people ask for.
supposed that they make the sentinel tank less, the rogue kill less, cw set nerfed, again,where will be the game diversity? Plus, pvp lovers will always outsmart the people who complain of nerfs.
They will always find a new build and a way out of it, so the baby criers will come back to forum and ask for different nerfs...
that happens all the time.
they nerfed rogues dps a little, slam and gwf, and ppl still found a way out of it, made different builds.
conclusion is the game is balanced for who knows how to play it.
and it is not balanced for who doesn't know how to play it.
Start asking for buffs, not nerfs, it is good, and gives more diversity to the game, more variety of builds. instead decreasing the variety so the game starts to die and gets boring on pvp.
Diablo 3 did that and screwed with their game.
Dovahkiin Gannicus, GWF Sentinel- Enemy Team Guild
Gannicus Destroyer, GWF Destroyer retired
Kate Beckinsale NB DC, Link NB GF
"There is only one way to be a champion..., Never ...ing lose"
Gannicus Destroyer, GWF Destroyer retired
Kate Beckinsale NB DC, Link NB GF
"There is only one way to be a champion..., Never ...ing lose"
Post edited by gannicsgladiator on
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Comments
The entire post is completely true, that's a great line though
We are definitely dominating, and we are always about to win.
but it is a resource pretty much to everyone else.
see the new rogues doing great with it, regen high hp rogues.
same on gfs
and now some new CWs using it too, even tho they have less hp, tenebrous are working super well on them to be killers/and survive at same time.
Conclusion of it, the great part of the dmg output here is not the classes, but the tenebrous enchantments.
if you nerf the classes because of their dmg with tenebrous its just dumb, because you are going to kill the game play of hundreds of people that could not afford tenes, or just didn't use tenes by choice...
again, the right thing is the game is balanced as it is now. but if there is something to be nerfed, it would be the tenes not the classes. it would be just dumb.
also remember that tenes work on the % of hp you have. in the middle of a fight, tenes are not so good as in the begininning. for that reason when I am near death i even swap some gear...
Gannicus Destroyer, GWF Destroyer retired
Kate Beckinsale NB DC, Link NB GF
"There is only one way to be a champion..., Never ...ing lose"
off topic i find it funny how you class tanky regen/tene rogues/cws a "new" thing
Ignorance, incompetence and laziness.
This might explain it better and it is not meant to be insulting to anyone:
Why learn to play if you can complain about them on forums? /MMOlogic101
Can't kill GWF? NERF!
Can't kill DC? NERF!
Can't kill GF? NERF!
Can't kill a TR? NERF!
Can't kill a CW? NERF!
GWF kills you? NERF!
GF kills you? NERF!
TR kills you? NERF!
CW kills you? NERF!
DC kills you? NERF! (Rarely happens but it does happen.)
TR performs any action while unseen by you: NERF!
Yep, it must be the game mechanics.
There is no point to whine for nerfs because you win some and loose some. Crying just makes a player look like a crier and no one, especially the devs, should take them seriously. Have a nice day!:)
by the way, I agree that they could do something to balance better the "Q".
Not only that, but it would be nice if they bring ranked guild domination "Q". then pugs fight pugs, there is a chance of less crying in the forums:p
Gannicus Destroyer, GWF Destroyer retired
Kate Beckinsale NB DC, Link NB GF
"There is only one way to be a champion..., Never ...ing lose"
Here is how battleground/pvp is balanced in Tera.
This is done by the queue when a player enters: A player's gear is changed to PVP lvl60 gear, the player is raised to lvl 60, and a player is given the same amount of HP/MP/stamina as any of the other players. The number of abilities/powers is not changed but they are their level is increase to max level and the enchantments/crystals are not changed. It does a pretty good job at balancing everything because I was doing just as good as some players who were lvl 60 outside of battleground/pvp when I began playing it at lvl 30.
I think something like it could be adapted to pvp in Neverwinter and might eliminate several of the unbalance claims being used as excuses to further the nerf agenda. The enchantments being change might have to be included in a similar system for neverwinter.
There is no point to whine for nerfs because you win some and loose some. Crying just makes a player look like a crier and no one, especially the devs, should take them seriously. Have a nice day!:)
and i think part of the pvp is not only skills, but how you build your gear, your enchants, etc.
Gannicus Destroyer, GWF Destroyer retired
Kate Beckinsale NB DC, Link NB GF
"There is only one way to be a champion..., Never ...ing lose"
I'd prefer if they added a ladder, maybe only visible for the top 100, but where everybody were given a "PvP skillevel stat" which was increased on winning, decreased on loosing (or leaving) and which worked as a mean to balance the teams.
most of those who rage in zone during matches are the under-geared, lesser skilled players in a pug group getting roll stomped by a guild group who have no idea what the other classes are capable of doing. Then they cry hacker and pay to win.
I hope once the merge is complete, they seriously focus on doing something constructive with pvp. Many lesser quality games have much better pvp, not to mention even crappy facebook games put this game's pvp to shame.
Keep the qq'ing out of pvp. L2P or stop q'ing up for pvp.
Indeed. GW2 was too fair for its own shake. However, the same type of threads existed about imbalance of classes. That's how PvP in MMO is. 10% of the content, 99% of the whinning.
WoW's system was the best imho. Battlegrounds for casual players, arena for the hardcore people. Personally, I would like to see more maps for casual play and a ladder system for people to battle it out and finally form a kind of team strategy rather than running in the forums and yell 'nerf, omg nerf' .
PvP may not be the main attraction of a game (like PvE content), but a healthy PvP competitive system is very very attractive.
I am unsure of other games with a successful PvP ladder...I hear about Tera, but isn't this that Full Bikini Armor MMO that you are trying to get gear showing as much skin as possible?
At level 60 you have no chance againsta higher geared player unless you invest Millions AD (=ZEN) or 100+ hours dungeon grinding until you get a fair chance at PvP.
As long as I only run with T1 sets I won't insert a Tene into a slot, not use L7 enchants. So I only PvP sometimes for the Daily, and then I don't care about win or loose or annoy others. PvP is dead and useless as it currently works at 60+ unless you have top gear.
A better pairing system and no equipment change during PvP would be appreciated by some players, by other not.
I don't want "easy fast", but I also don't want to be thrown around the arena like a rugby ball. It's a game, it is supposed to make fun!
i want to write that since forever.. i just didnt have the time and the patient to write all that lines.
I hope pwe/cryptic understand this post.
You are correct that there will be still be NERF posts but making pvp more fair or more leveled should decrease them because a large number of the players calling for NERF mistakenly think its the class that is unbalanced when it is the differences in gear. Great idea having the different pvps. One could have the system I mentioned and one could be regular PVP. A player calling for nerfs would have to prove which PVP they are using. You unlock higher Tier pvp when you hit 60 in Tera.
Side Note: Tera does have costumes like swimsuits for every enviroment/area in the game and some are scandalous. *Shakes his head about the male speedos.* It also has costumes like steam punk and pirate. I will not discuss any aspect of Tera further that does not have anything to do with the thread since its against the rules sorry. I only mentioned the system because it might work to make PVP fairer for the casual players to decrease the nerf threads.
I know it changes the levels if you are under leveled but it does not touch the gear. A ladder system might be viable or a the system I mentioned in on version of pvp for casual pvpers and regular pvp for hardcore pvpers.
Either way the NERF stuff should stop because it will simply ruin the game more and more than it already has ruined it.
There is no point to whine for nerfs because you win some and loose some. Crying just makes a player look like a crier and no one, especially the devs, should take them seriously. Have a nice day!:)
A lot of the fix posts are from people who play that class. Your assumption is just the argument the mass of people trying to defend their broken ability.
This is a very fast way to totally destroy a game. Constantly having to retune an entire world around 1 or 2 broken abilities? lolz
Buffs = Nerfs = Crappy game for a lot of different reasons.
This means:
Nerfs = Crappy game for a lot of different reasons.
So buffs are in some ways just as bad as nerfs. I agree with you that buffs can destroy a game if they are over done like nerfs. Nerfs weaken the classes to the point they are not viable in PVE while buffs make it easier. Several classes have bugged abilities/powers that are being discovered and complained about every day so technically they are broken. This makes the next quote valid.
The devs should fix all the bugs in the classes before even thinking about doing more balancing because they would have to re-balance the game again and again each time a bug is fixed.
There is no point to whine for nerfs because you win some and loose some. Crying just makes a player look like a crier and no one, especially the devs, should take them seriously. Have a nice day!:)
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?500341-Patch-Notes-I-d-Like-to-See
Just another person pushing their own agenda to ruin the game for all the other players. The parody of the thread is much better to be honest.
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?500441-NW-5-20130923b-9-Patch-Notes-%28Parody-of-the-nerf-crying-thread%29
There is no point to whine for nerfs because you win some and loose some. Crying just makes a player look like a crier and no one, especially the devs, should take them seriously. Have a nice day!:)
no - having to readjust an entire world's content because u have to buff 20 skills because of 1 broken one is not the same. I never said a=b I just said in 1 area it has the same result (pvp) where it breaks the pve world completely. as well as creating 100x the work.
So a hidden nerf leads to crappy game play but an obvious nerf does not lead to crappy game play??? Epic fail on your part. Continue wanting nerfs to ruin the game for everyone else. Too many nerfs will lead to the entire world/dungeons having to be readjusted so players can still play them.
On second thought forget I even said anything and push for all the nerfs you want. You have it right nerf all the classes to the ground so the entire game has to be reworks. Its not like a percieved pvp imbalance is the only issue. No no, the lack of content has nothing to do with the player base dwindling. *Just hit lvl 60 in a better game and still has close 50% of the game content left to play.* Have fun:)
There is no point to whine for nerfs because you win some and loose some. Crying just makes a player look like a crier and no one, especially the devs, should take them seriously. Have a nice day!:)