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PvP Revamp Ideas
lobo0084
Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 663 Bounty Hunter
I'm going to focus this post on one of the many ways our current PvP system can be improved. As with all of these idea threads I make, I make no claim to owning the idea. I've heard others suggest it, thought it was great, and put my mind to trying to make it as reasonably applicable as possible while maintaining balance and the tone of the game.
New Mechanics
- Drop-In/Drop-Out = For most divisions and game modes, including GG, players will be able to join games in progress on the side of a friend, if a position is available and they have the appropriate alignment (in the case of GG).
- Leaderboards = For most divisions and game modes, the new PvP Screen will have a sortable breakdown of players' ranking in PvP. These can be sorted by division, class, guild, friends and include an individual search. These boards break down further from simple points to kills, assists, heals, revives, percentage of time played under half health, average gear score, etc.
- Cross-Server Functionality = Barring a possible future server-merge, this would allow all divisions to queue and play against those from other shards, adding more players to the que and increasing the diversity of games.
Tiered Divisions for Arena PvP
- Open = Same as we currently have, with no limitation on gear, gear swapping, enchants/attachments, or premade/pick-up groups. Drop-in/Drop-out functionality is added, allowing players to join existing games if a friends game has a space available on their team. Quitting an open game carries no penalty. No leaderboards.
- Heroic = A division for characters looking for less aggressive/hardcore play. This division requires that players have less than T1 gear to enter, and locks all gear to queue. All enchants and weapon/armor attachments are turned off. Groups are limited to three players, so no premade can be setup. Drop-in/Drop-out functionality is available, allowing players to join a game in progress if a friend has space available on their team. Quitting a Heroic game carries a 15 minute queue lockout for all but open division. Leaderboards available.
- Legendary = A division for characters looking for a tougher fight. This division requires T1 or T2 gear to enter and locks gear upon queue. All enchants are capped at level 5 or less. All weapon/armor attachments are capped at standard or lesser. Players can join with a full team or pick up group. Drop-in/Drop-out functionality is available, allowing players to join a game in progress if a friend has space available on their team. Quitting a Legendary game carries a 30 minute queue lockout for all but open division. Leaderboards available.
- Epic = A division for hardcore players. This division requires T2 or higher to enter, and locks gear upon que. All enchants and attachments are allowed. Full premade teams and pick up groups are both options. No Drop-In/Drop-Out functionality. Quitting an Epic game carries a 1 hour queue lockout for all but open division. Leaderboards available.
- Tournament = A highly restricted and governed division, matches are available during Arena PvP time, and a player can only participate in one match a day. Points per match are averaged over the coarse of the month, providing an end total at the end of the month for top players. Premade teams only. No drop-in/drop-out functionality. Quitting a tournament game disqualifies the player from participating in a tournament game for one week. Leaderboards available.
Revise Current Arena Maps
- Shorten the distance between objectives by overall shrinking the size of the maps.
- Add multiple versions of each map, some with capture points on second floor.
- Alternate spawn locations or increase the number of spawns, allowing players to sort between locations before spawning.
- Add more floors besides two, for more height in general gameplay.
- Add interactable locations through each map, such as opening/closing gates to control map flow, destroying walkways or ladders, and breaking walls.
New Arena Game Modes
- Assault/Defense = A phase-based game of three minute rounds where players attempt to take a key position from defending players. Each phase, the players switch sides. Five phases, best of five wins.
- Capture the Flag = Same map as Assault/Defense, with a capture-capable objective (crystal, banner, etc) that has to be taken from the opponent and returned to your base. Five points to win or 20 minute game. Flag carriers would be unable to use all abilities and powers while carrying the flag, including riding on horses.
- Deathmatch = Players spawn in and have free reign over smaller maps to kill opponents on a ticket based system. Tickets are taken on respawn, but not revives. 50 kills end the game for 5v5.
New Open World PvP
- Old Merchant's Ward = A desolate area of Neverwinter, this is a maze of ruined buildings and trashed streets. This is essentially a guild-on-guild fight, where all guild members are aligned and only guild members can share a party with each other. All other players are enemies, unless guilds are allied. Each kill, objective cap and revive/heal adds a small glory boost and gives guild tokens, which win your guild favor with the major noble houses (which can later be turned into profession boons and guild boosts). The major element of this hectic map is the constant criss-cross of bridges and walkways and multi-floored fighting, with several broad, open zones for larger engagements. Map is limited to 100 players, with one guild only able to have a max of 20 members per instance.
- Helm's Hold Battle = Helm's hold is an ongoing battle between the forces of light and darkness. Two fortresses mark each end of a valley, and individual players (regardless of guild) sign up to receive special tokens by fighting for one of the two sides. Alliances are temporary and players can change sides by leaving zone and coming back in. Points are earned per kill, objective cap, revive or heal. The major elements of this hectic map are a rocky ridgeline, a hellspawn chasm littered with mazes, and a wide open battlefield of destruction. The map is limited to 100 players, with sides limited by how many players are on the opposing team, enforcing team balance.
New Medium Scale Event-Based PvP
- Rothe Valley = For larger team play akin to GG. Smaller than GG, though, with less running/horse racing. 10 on 10 battle. Five objectives with a central axis. Farm houses, Neverwinter battlements and drow outposts, with a cave system. 20 minute match times. Players align with Underdark Allies versus Neverwinter.
- Pirates Skyhold = Spread across several earth nodes with jumps/bridges bordering, this is a push heavy map that only has three points. 10v10 battle with 20 minute matches. Pirates versus Adventuring Company.
Guild-Based PvP
- Utilizing Attack/Defend mechanics, player guilds can purchase Guild Fortresses to defend during event times three times a day.
- Guilds only need to win one match every two days to maintain possession of their fortress.
- Matches are limited to a max of 50 v 50. Each side limits the engagement to the next highest five, so if 25 defenders show up and 28 attackers, the match is limited to 30 v 30, and only two more attackers can join. This number scales as the match goes on, with players who leave or DC being removed from the total math. Defenders can increase the max value, but not attackers, meaning in the above example if 5 more defenders show up, the max can be increased to 35 v 35.
- Losing a match decreases the upgrade of the fortress by a small amount.
- Winning a match secures the fortress for the next day.
- Fortress upgrades can be purchased with Noble tokens from the Old Merchant's District combat, Gauntlegrym Coins from player donations, Seals, Rothe Valley/Pirates Skyhold emblems, and Feywild drops. Upgrades can eventually allow players more defensive capabilities.
- Fortresses can be accessed by guild members at all times outside of the event times.
- Fortresses can be improved by the above mentioned methods to include various merchants and assets, including mail boxes, Auction House vendors, etc.
- Guilds can be allied with other guilds, allowing players to volunteer to aid other guilds during Guild Fortress events.
- Guild Fortress Map Types match each zone, and include event zones as well.
New Mechanics
- Drop-In/Drop-Out = For most divisions and game modes, including GG, players will be able to join games in progress on the side of a friend, if a position is available and they have the appropriate alignment (in the case of GG).
- Leaderboards = For most divisions and game modes, the new PvP Screen will have a sortable breakdown of players' ranking in PvP. These can be sorted by division, class, guild, friends and include an individual search. These boards break down further from simple points to kills, assists, heals, revives, percentage of time played under half health, average gear score, etc.
- Cross-Server Functionality = Barring a possible future server-merge, this would allow all divisions to queue and play against those from other shards, adding more players to the que and increasing the diversity of games.
Tiered Divisions for Arena PvP
- Open = Same as we currently have, with no limitation on gear, gear swapping, enchants/attachments, or premade/pick-up groups. Drop-in/Drop-out functionality is added, allowing players to join existing games if a friends game has a space available on their team. Quitting an open game carries no penalty. No leaderboards.
- Heroic = A division for characters looking for less aggressive/hardcore play. This division requires that players have less than T1 gear to enter, and locks all gear to queue. All enchants and weapon/armor attachments are turned off. Groups are limited to three players, so no premade can be setup. Drop-in/Drop-out functionality is available, allowing players to join a game in progress if a friend has space available on their team. Quitting a Heroic game carries a 15 minute queue lockout for all but open division. Leaderboards available.
- Legendary = A division for characters looking for a tougher fight. This division requires T1 or T2 gear to enter and locks gear upon queue. All enchants are capped at level 5 or less. All weapon/armor attachments are capped at standard or lesser. Players can join with a full team or pick up group. Drop-in/Drop-out functionality is available, allowing players to join a game in progress if a friend has space available on their team. Quitting a Legendary game carries a 30 minute queue lockout for all but open division. Leaderboards available.
- Epic = A division for hardcore players. This division requires T2 or higher to enter, and locks gear upon que. All enchants and attachments are allowed. Full premade teams and pick up groups are both options. No Drop-In/Drop-Out functionality. Quitting an Epic game carries a 1 hour queue lockout for all but open division. Leaderboards available.
- Tournament = A highly restricted and governed division, matches are available during Arena PvP time, and a player can only participate in one match a day. Points per match are averaged over the coarse of the month, providing an end total at the end of the month for top players. Premade teams only. No drop-in/drop-out functionality. Quitting a tournament game disqualifies the player from participating in a tournament game for one week. Leaderboards available.
Revise Current Arena Maps
- Shorten the distance between objectives by overall shrinking the size of the maps.
- Add multiple versions of each map, some with capture points on second floor.
- Alternate spawn locations or increase the number of spawns, allowing players to sort between locations before spawning.
- Add more floors besides two, for more height in general gameplay.
- Add interactable locations through each map, such as opening/closing gates to control map flow, destroying walkways or ladders, and breaking walls.
New Arena Game Modes
- Assault/Defense = A phase-based game of three minute rounds where players attempt to take a key position from defending players. Each phase, the players switch sides. Five phases, best of five wins.
- Capture the Flag = Same map as Assault/Defense, with a capture-capable objective (crystal, banner, etc) that has to be taken from the opponent and returned to your base. Five points to win or 20 minute game. Flag carriers would be unable to use all abilities and powers while carrying the flag, including riding on horses.
- Deathmatch = Players spawn in and have free reign over smaller maps to kill opponents on a ticket based system. Tickets are taken on respawn, but not revives. 50 kills end the game for 5v5.
New Open World PvP
- Old Merchant's Ward = A desolate area of Neverwinter, this is a maze of ruined buildings and trashed streets. This is essentially a guild-on-guild fight, where all guild members are aligned and only guild members can share a party with each other. All other players are enemies, unless guilds are allied. Each kill, objective cap and revive/heal adds a small glory boost and gives guild tokens, which win your guild favor with the major noble houses (which can later be turned into profession boons and guild boosts). The major element of this hectic map is the constant criss-cross of bridges and walkways and multi-floored fighting, with several broad, open zones for larger engagements. Map is limited to 100 players, with one guild only able to have a max of 20 members per instance.
- Helm's Hold Battle = Helm's hold is an ongoing battle between the forces of light and darkness. Two fortresses mark each end of a valley, and individual players (regardless of guild) sign up to receive special tokens by fighting for one of the two sides. Alliances are temporary and players can change sides by leaving zone and coming back in. Points are earned per kill, objective cap, revive or heal. The major elements of this hectic map are a rocky ridgeline, a hellspawn chasm littered with mazes, and a wide open battlefield of destruction. The map is limited to 100 players, with sides limited by how many players are on the opposing team, enforcing team balance.
New Medium Scale Event-Based PvP
- Rothe Valley = For larger team play akin to GG. Smaller than GG, though, with less running/horse racing. 10 on 10 battle. Five objectives with a central axis. Farm houses, Neverwinter battlements and drow outposts, with a cave system. 20 minute match times. Players align with Underdark Allies versus Neverwinter.
- Pirates Skyhold = Spread across several earth nodes with jumps/bridges bordering, this is a push heavy map that only has three points. 10v10 battle with 20 minute matches. Pirates versus Adventuring Company.
Guild-Based PvP
- Utilizing Attack/Defend mechanics, player guilds can purchase Guild Fortresses to defend during event times three times a day.
- Guilds only need to win one match every two days to maintain possession of their fortress.
- Matches are limited to a max of 50 v 50. Each side limits the engagement to the next highest five, so if 25 defenders show up and 28 attackers, the match is limited to 30 v 30, and only two more attackers can join. This number scales as the match goes on, with players who leave or DC being removed from the total math. Defenders can increase the max value, but not attackers, meaning in the above example if 5 more defenders show up, the max can be increased to 35 v 35.
- Losing a match decreases the upgrade of the fortress by a small amount.
- Winning a match secures the fortress for the next day.
- Fortress upgrades can be purchased with Noble tokens from the Old Merchant's District combat, Gauntlegrym Coins from player donations, Seals, Rothe Valley/Pirates Skyhold emblems, and Feywild drops. Upgrades can eventually allow players more defensive capabilities.
- Fortresses can be accessed by guild members at all times outside of the event times.
- Fortresses can be improved by the above mentioned methods to include various merchants and assets, including mail boxes, Auction House vendors, etc.
- Guilds can be allied with other guilds, allowing players to volunteer to aid other guilds during Guild Fortress events.
- Guild Fortress Map Types match each zone, and include event zones as well.
"Every adventurer has two things in common: they don't like dying, and they love getting paid. The rest is just semantics." Brecken, famed mercenary of Baldur's Gate
"D*mn wizards," said Morik the Rogue.
Learn what a GWF and GF really are: The History of Fighters
"D*mn wizards," said Morik the Rogue.
Learn what a GWF and GF really are: The History of Fighters
Post edited by lobo0084 on
0
Comments
Quick opinion:
Cryptic should be careful about implementing TOO many queues for PvP at once, because it could easily become the case where all queues take forever due to the population being too divided. I do want to see some optional brackets to separate the "new 60s" from the "PvP establishment," but getting too specific about types of sets and enchantments is adding too much complication. Best to make it two basic options: OPEN as it is now, and something like at least 9.2k+ GS for Epic PvP Domination. 9.2 may be a little low, even, but at least it's not 6k, like a lot of new 60s are rocking when they first jump in to farm glory for their gear.
Contagion - Cleric
Testament - Wizard
Pestilence - Ranger
Dominion - Paladin
NIGHTSWATCH
I avoided GS as a division denominator due to the fact that GS means different things for different classes. As it is a very basic guideline anyhow, I felt that segregating divisions on the tier of the gear, instead, would be more efficient.
But I do agree with you completely about too many queues. I think the players are there, but Cryptic would be the one who really knows. Either way, it would have to be a slow addition so that players don't lose out.
"D*mn wizards," said Morik the Rogue.
Learn what a GWF and GF really are: The History of Fighters
- JailBreak (in development)
Perhap, they should show a summary of players in PvP/Dungeons so that your segregating divisions would change and work appropriately. Same as the others, the key concern is too many queues.
10 minute wait = frustrating,
20 minute wait = banging the table,
30 minute wait = $#(*#($,
>30 minute wait = flip the table.
Honestly, I have yet to sit in a pvp queue after hitting 60 for more than 5 minutes. I'm not sure if there is just more PvP on Beholder or what differences could be happening, but whether we're premade or I'm running solo, I get a game quickly. This is what colors my reasoning that the playerbase might be able to support multiple queue's.
"D*mn wizards," said Morik the Rogue.
Learn what a GWF and GF really are: The History of Fighters
I have a perma stealth that at max can move at 65% run speed, 15% more than a common mount.
The point of this is, I could simply go in, grab the flag, and be out, not allowing anyone to stop me.
Now you could always just make the person with the flag visible, but that defeats the purpose of stealth thus making rogues useless in that format. It would also probably cause a lot of negative comments/feedback.
This doesn't only apply to rogues, there is also the GWF with it's CC immunity and run speed, if used properly with Battle Fury, Punishing Charge, and Mighty Leap. Would allow them to go across an entire field nonstop.
1) Allowplayer created PvP maps - all PvP orientated maps could rotate, and be accessed by Quing for 'random FOundray PvP Map' The most popular could be put onto rotation on the main PvP rotation maps. This would potentially allow players not only to create new maps but to tweak existing maps for vaiety and fun.
2) New Game Styles - I know it's cliche, but how about some Capture the flag, Team deathmatch and the possibility of 'Storm the Castle' effectively a dungeon with a time limit onit, with a Team of 5 trying to get to the boss at the end while having to fight the opposing team who are on the bosses side.
Winner gets Epic T2/3 gear from a chest at the end, and other rewards based on performance for kills/healing/support.
3) TOurnament rewards - what if we could creat a player pool of rewards - for example an epic chest from the leadership crafting skill - buy in to the tournament requires a donatin from all the teams into a 'TOurnament Bank'.
Winner takes all.
4) Allowance of pets in certain PvP matches - interacting pets only, not the stone or cat, which could dramatically alter the play dynamics. Free roaming PvP in SWTOR with pets was great once you'd levelled them a little and put some PvP gear on them - could potentially add a whole new dimension to PvP.
5) LArge scale world altering PvP - given that the factions have been weakly introduced, why not set up a weekly PvP tournament with say 40 Vs 40, with a map based objective that opens up a new dungeon in teh Open world for that week to allow the players allied to the winning faction to access. If the prize for the inners was a full key to open it, and for thel osers perhaps a 1/3 key fragment then access wouldn't be totally cdominated by a skewed population.
The dungeons could have limitted run items and upgrades, or even permanent characetr upgrades as a result
I'm feeling really jaded and bored currently in neverwinter, really this is my OWN opinion tho. Not taking a stab at the game....But honestly...the MINUTE a good OPEN WORLD PVP mmorpg comes out....I'm GONE.
and if it does, it will be so full of mistakes.
cryptics weakest link, they realy should do something about it.
not for me but for their businiss
Easy solutions to all of these:
DOn't break stealth but don't stelath the flag. Remember CWs could push everyone away as could clerics.
The flag carrier could be prevented from riding a mount whereas the chasing team can - really I don't think class balance will be an issue, as I've not yet seen any single player issue in PvP that can't be overcome with a team approach.
Solutions for this could also be to make the flag heavy so you can't run as fast, to show the flag on the minimap not to mention the potential solutions with some creative mapping. Doesn't even have to be a flag, could be a piece of treasure, or a small chest witha high level enchant in that's thrown from person to person, with the winning team getting the loot.
It's endless if the Foundry is opened up and used to its full potential...
What they really need, are two different pvp type matches.
1) for the daily
2) for people and guilds who wish to pvp.
the daily pvp would get u just that, your daily reward. no glory issued. Glory is for pvp'ers, not for those just wanting the daily AD's.
The real pvp matches would get better glory rewards. Perhaps a flat fixed glory amount for winning for everyone on the team, and a much lesser glory award for the entire losing team. Award glory based on the team winning, and not how u did individually. This would spark those who pug these pvp matches, to better understand strategies. It will no longer be about individual pts, but the team point total at the end.
Have a subset version of this where premade v premade can enter in challenge amounts. a Deposit is made by all players, and the winners receive that amount. Say u choose the 100,000 AD match. Each member must pay 100k AD to enter the match. Winning team receives the losers share. Losers get a tissue <actual item>
There is simply so much they could do to improve pvp in this game and keep people interested. They just need to think outside the box.
Also. With the two different pvp match types <daily AD pvp and actual pvp> they need to revamp the new pvp with actual decent rewards. 100k glory buys u this title or item or enchant. Win 500 pvp matches grants u this title. ect, etc. <add any or all existing items>
Separating the pvps will not fix every problem, but will solve the daily AD pvpers crying about how they get roll stomped. Nothing is perfect, but let the true pvpers have their own matches.
I'll update this in the original post, but as with most games and CTF, I envision flag carriers being unable to use powers and abilities without dropping the flag. This includes all tab-based skills and whatnot.
You'd still see more support for players who have higher ehp running, as otherwise a TR or CW would just get picked off by other TR's and CW's before they could get very far at all.
"D*mn wizards," said Morik the Rogue.
Learn what a GWF and GF really are: The History of Fighters
I tend to feel that the argument isn't 'PvPers vs Dailys', but the always present 'Casual vs Hardcore' players. And to be honest, after you hit level 60 (an easily attainable goal for one week worth of playing), PvP is quickly broken down into gear. While gear isn't everything, and there are bad players with good gear who lose everyday, there truth is that a decent player with good gear will utterly destroy a player of the same skill with worse gear. It really does have an effect.
I feel that more players are turned off of pvp each day simply because they don't take it as serious as others, and aren't grinding out for T2 and T3 gear each day just to stay competitive. But because of that casual approach, they find out very quickly that they simply cannot be competitive.
"D*mn wizards," said Morik the Rogue.
Learn what a GWF and GF really are: The History of Fighters
That would actually fix the problem entirely.
Then it would depend on the teams skill to defend the player with the flag.
Basically testing them in a 4v5 seeing as the flag carrier can't attack.
....or make the person carrying the flag gets turned int a complete roided elite boss with 4 protectors that the other team then have to take out ike a PvE Boss, and the opposing team get a certain number of deaths in which to do it all in....
Each class and build could turn into a different monster with different dailies and powers asigned by what they turn into.
'Mind control' springs to mind.....
I wish I understood coding.... :P
While this leads to some awesome ideas, I think it goes well and beyond what I was wishing for.
More to this as an aside, providing each class with a buff when they hold the flag could be used if the balance is off.
I do like the roid monster GWF idea, though.
"D*mn wizards," said Morik the Rogue.
Learn what a GWF and GF really are: The History of Fighters
I'd agree with this. I would consider myself a Casual player because I don't have the time to be Hardcore, but have found in other games I could compete mainly because all I do is pvp. It's really not possible to do that here because of a lack of gear through the levels and variety.
The combat in this game is a lot of fun, I haven't seen it at max level because frankly I'm not arsed to play pve content and the lack of pvp variety has really put me off. I haven't played now for over two weeks and unless drastic changes are made to the pvp set up I can't see myself playing again.
What I think is sad is that the pvp combat system is by far the best part of this game and with minimum effort they could bring so many new players. But it would seem that they prioritise pve and in truth it's not even comparable to other games in this field such as ff14, swtor etc.. In contrast the combat system is miles ahead. Although granted that is all only my opinion.
It's my own fault really. I'm used to mmos where open world pvp was the norm, and i didn't need a whole team to fight a whole team...:(, where a fight could break out anywhere while questing, where the WIN was the KILL and not who can stand somewhere long enough....
Oh well, i'll stick round simply cos, theres no better games out there YET, that strike my fancy.
This is a far more team-oriented game than almost any other out there. It seems like you need to find yourself an Arena-focused guild, or even join in on some GG, to really get more out of your game. But even then, you'd still be right: it's not about you, it's about your team.
I really don't see an open world environment being too far off, though. By too far, I mean taking over 12 months of development time. It is an MMO, and nothing happens quickly.
"D*mn wizards," said Morik the Rogue.
Learn what a GWF and GF really are: The History of Fighters