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We take more AOE damage than any other class.
deganji
Member Posts: 22 Arc User
Utility movement abilities need to be rebalanced.
A rogue can stay in dpsing away when a red circle appears, as long as they are rolling when the effect happens, it's a "dodge". A cleric or wizard can do the came and they are "immune". A guardian just has to raise their shield and it's a "block". These classes can even use their utility to move through aoe effects on the ground and take no damage.
So, if a gwf tries to run out of a red circle at the last second, they are going to take full damage. If a gwf runs through a ground effect aoe, we are going to get hurt.
Just doesn't seem fair to me, is all I'm saying. Sure we can get out of the way, but we have to be a whole heck of a lot faster that the other classes. I wouldn't even complain if it wasn't EVERY other class that could do this.
A rogue can stay in dpsing away when a red circle appears, as long as they are rolling when the effect happens, it's a "dodge". A cleric or wizard can do the came and they are "immune". A guardian just has to raise their shield and it's a "block". These classes can even use their utility to move through aoe effects on the ground and take no damage.
So, if a gwf tries to run out of a red circle at the last second, they are going to take full damage. If a gwf runs through a ground effect aoe, we are going to get hurt.
Just doesn't seem fair to me, is all I'm saying. Sure we can get out of the way, but we have to be a whole heck of a lot faster that the other classes. I wouldn't even complain if it wasn't EVERY other class that could do this.
Post edited by deganji on
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A shame that what the OP describes is the single reason I don't really want to play that GWF because I love the idea of wide-swaths of damage to groups of bad guys.
Destroyer + Vigilant Set + 1500 Life Steal + Mighty Leap + Daring Shout = Most AOEs, Red Circles, Red Cones, stacked red circles/cones become trivial. In fact you'll sometimes be running to the red circles just to get hit to keep perma Unstoppable.
noting that rogues equip dual weapons but in comparison of GWF Weapon to 1 dagger the GWF weapon is far greater however rogues wield dual which makes another difference in other words i dont see it happening
I mean it is obviously part of the whole setup of the class and I can't see how/why you'd change it without completely retooling the class, but being unable to do anything to stop people from hitting me for at least a moment feels wrong and dispiriting, especially when every other class gets it in some form(even if it is just something as simple as being able to attack from range).
The only problem with unstoppable negating damage, is that what I can infer from other posts it has been bugged since beta. So sometimes when it bugs, it feels like they double nerfed it.
Fox Stevenson - Sandblast
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See, that's the problem. Every other class has unstoppable built into their utility power. We have to get beat on before we can use it, if it even works at all. Half the time that I could use unstoppable to negate damage, the meter has stopped filling. Watching a rogue roll through a ground aoe to chase adds, while I have to walk around it, just doesn't set right with me.
I'm not trying to get any of the classes nerfed, just wishing for a few quality of life improvements to gwf. Maybe modify our utility to be more in line with the other classes and rework unstoppable into something better. I don't think that's too much to hope for, is it?
Look at it this way: Cleric, Wizard, and Rogue can all dodge attacks, completely avoiding damage. Cleric, Wizard, and, to a lesser extent, Rogue can all fight from a distance, once again a way to minimize damage. Cleric and particularly Wizard have control powers that enhance their ability to keep at range. Rogue has stealth.
Guardian Fighter doesn't have any of these things, more or less, but has the ability to block, completely negating damage.
Now the Great Weapon Fighter can sprint but that doesn't really work as a dodge as you'll still take damage from a lot of the attacks that any of the other classes SHIFT ability would make irrelevant. And their Unstoppable ability is their damage mitigation mechanic but it requires that you get beat up on to use.
If you go to the first post-tutorial instance, where the Nashers are stealing the crown of Neverwinter, you can make it through there without using a potion(or repeatedly running back to earlier checkpoints) on any class but I doubt it is possible on the GWF. The GWF just doesn't have any tools to stop from being hit because the class is built around needing to be hit.
Now I'm not saying the GWF is underpowered or even needs to be changed at all but rather that, unlike every other class, I feel like I am always getting my HAMSTER$ kicked, even when I'm doing well. So my dislike of the class comes from all the ways that it is working as intended, which has to be a first for me.
That and those dumb, giant weapons.
If only it was only damage. Usually it's not just flat damage, there is an effect coming with it. Bounced back, proned, stunned, drained, dazed, transmuted into a chicken, disabled, frozen, burnt.
And soon dead.
As the OP said, gwf is the only class affected by red circles.
Yes, this build avoid all serious damage dealing abilities in trade of getting worse version of what all classes already have as SHIFT skill. But it works! No doubt on that.
I mean, you don't see GFs complaining and asking to give us a dodge/slide because we have the least mobility, or the least useful tab skill in the game.
Every class has its weaknesses and strengths, it's the player's role to learn them and build around them - or pick a different class if the one they've tried doesn't fit their gameplay. Sure, it may be a tad misleading, because NW doesn't follow MMO class design conventions to a T - but that's a GOOD thing.
I understand what you are saying and do agree about making all classes unique and different, totally agree. The main thing I LOVE about this game is it's so different compared to other games. That's not what this thread is about.
Just want equal treatment is all. I don't think adding the same immunity effect to our sprint would take away from the uniqueness of it.
Edit: If you think GF needs a dodge or slide, or it's utility ability is useless, then you absolutely should voice your opnion. You have every right too. Anyone that tells me I don't have the right to voice my opinion in a civilized manner can take a leap.
My beef is that our sprint is not enough to get out or red circles all the time. Not everyone has perfect reflexes or perfect internet. It may just be me, maybe I'm terrible. But I sure could get out of circles with no problem playing the other classes.
Trying to find a class I liked, and I tried gwf last. Turns out it's my favorite. Just want it at equal footing.
3 out of 5 classes have fundamentally the same function in their escape mechanic. Where is the variety here? The same 3 classes + 1 (GF) are granted immunity to effects via usage their Shift kill. The same 4 classes are given huge lee-way as to when to Shift, as long as it's used a split-second before the attack lands. And, to add the cherry on top, the same 4 classes need to do only one action to make it effective.
To effectively use Sprint as an escape mechanic, you need to react in a 3-step process of consciously taken actions: 1) react early enough to 2) give you time to sprint out of the AoE AND 3) let go of Shift BEFORE the strike lands. Screw up on any of those points, and it's as though you didn't do anything. For the other 4 classes, it's NP to simply Shift+direction or Shift+hold at any time before strike lands.
Those are the weaknesses of Sprint, but where are its strengths? Oh yeah, you ignore slow effects while sprinting. Gee, thanks.
I'd also add that if you are in the middle of a swing, you can't sprint until the swing animation ends, not true with the other classes that I've noticed. Makes it even harder.
Well, basically, I think they should concentrate on fixing the issues that seem to plague GWF more than most other classes (they were the least tested before release, after all) before all this talk about buffs/nerfs is relevant. And I agree that mid-swing sprint should be a thing, like what they did for dodges (used to be you couldn't dodge mid-cast).
I don't think damage immunity on sprint would be entirely fair though - it's a sustained rather than one-time ability, and from what I've seen it's much more useful in terms of mobility compared to all classes except the CW - but CWs are SQUISHY. I can maybe see increased DR or deflect (though don't you already have feats for that?), but full damage immunity sustained for even 3-5 seconds (and perhaps longer) is just too much.
It's also sustained rather than one-time, lasts longer and gets you further than continuous dodging would (except maybe CW).
Slow immunity is quite useful, IMO - maybe more so in PvP than PvE, as we haven't had many monsters applying slow so far (and we totally should). Funny thing, when I'm in PvP on my cleric, most GWFs don't even think to use sprint when under effect of Forgemaster's or BtS
Well I wouldnt ask for uniformity IF the end game enounters werent made heavily in favour of complete immunity skills.
I mean - look at MC last boss wing flap AoE, its red radius is somewhere about 40-60' , the acutal damage radius is almost twice as much bigger, somewhere around 80-120' ...and you can sprint only 65'! even if you started sprinting in time, you just cannot outrun it (unless alredy standing somewhat further way)
Or another example, CN and MC dragon breaths or CN hands - how you can survive 60k damage with unstoppable without being full tank and meatwagon? Not mentioning you dont have unstoppable all the time contrary to other classes skills. Other classes press one button and voila, immune! When its classic red circle damage (10-25k) unstoppable is great - it charges from it or it protect you, but when its IK damage unstoppable is useless tool.
What many people doesnt realize:
The gap between 40% and 100% in general case of flat damage is infinity!