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Buff all Classes but the CW
cyanbluestone007
Member Posts: 104 Bounty Hunter
2-3 CWs per party for CN's and MC's is reason enough to buff all the other classes so everyone has an equal share to a party slot.
Cw's synergize so well with each other it's leaving all the other classes except DC out of a party spot. All CW's need is more Control and more AOE damage and they just line up and mow down trash. Now they also have excelent defense with shield on and 3 teleports to evade and keep there distance and range damage Aoe Spam.
I will not ask for a nerf to the CW. If that happens then these dungeons become impossible. The dungeon difficulty already makes them impractical.
What I'm asking for specifically are buffs that let the other classes synergize well with each other. So having certain pairs of classes become really really good.
TR's Need to do additional damage to marked targets. Make it high enough that a TR and GF team up will do more single target damage than any Double TR's could on there own. This Gives GF's much more viability in groups if they become the TR's best friend as well as the sturdy tank. TR's could also use a passive power that lets them do a small percentage of their single target damage to nearby targets so they can have a little AOE as well. If they slot for it
GF's are in a good spot with there damage and defenses. In PvP you can argue they are too good. What GF's need more than anything else is tweaked dungeon design specifically boss fights. MC is a good start. Where controling the location of the boss with threat is essential to victory. But If all classes got a bigger boost to combat advantage damage then the GF becomes even more viable in a group since keeping the bosses back turned will help out the entire party.
DC's are the 2nd most needed class next to CW's. But I feel they dont really fit the damage dealer and healer type cleric as is the 4th edition design. DC's need to be able to boost the power of targets they heal for a short period of time. Say a new passive power. So DC's bring more damage to the table specifically for the melee users who recieve constant heals and are always in the fray taking hits and dealing damage.
GWF's need the most work. They need to be the offensive version of the GF. They need better AOE damage encounters and Dailies, as well as group party offensive buffs like GF party defensive Knights Valor. They need to have an enhanced threat passive. say add it to the bravery passive (makes sense) so they can out threat any other class except the GF. IF they choose to slot that passive and be a tank, when needed. If GF's see more dungeon time then GWFs with there +15% damage to marked targets feat will see more use and the GWF and GF team up will become a viable option. GWF's also need to have all hit caps removed so the GWF and CW become the ideal team for gathering and burning down adds. It needs to be better than any two CW's can do. To do this GWFs need some better AOE damage encounters and dailies. Not so Fast and Spinning Strike are laughable as the GWFs best AOE damage moves.
CW's are versatile enough to be able to adjust to these new group setups they dont need to be change. Just look how they changed from being ledge pushing goons that dominate CN's to Adds gathering Avalanche spamming DPS machines.
These suggestion will not upset anyone and the new options will make the game more fun for all without changing the options that currently work in Game. IE CW's doing all the work plus one or two melee who follow them to do a bit of dirty work.
Cw's synergize so well with each other it's leaving all the other classes except DC out of a party spot. All CW's need is more Control and more AOE damage and they just line up and mow down trash. Now they also have excelent defense with shield on and 3 teleports to evade and keep there distance and range damage Aoe Spam.
I will not ask for a nerf to the CW. If that happens then these dungeons become impossible. The dungeon difficulty already makes them impractical.
What I'm asking for specifically are buffs that let the other classes synergize well with each other. So having certain pairs of classes become really really good.
TR's Need to do additional damage to marked targets. Make it high enough that a TR and GF team up will do more single target damage than any Double TR's could on there own. This Gives GF's much more viability in groups if they become the TR's best friend as well as the sturdy tank. TR's could also use a passive power that lets them do a small percentage of their single target damage to nearby targets so they can have a little AOE as well. If they slot for it
GF's are in a good spot with there damage and defenses. In PvP you can argue they are too good. What GF's need more than anything else is tweaked dungeon design specifically boss fights. MC is a good start. Where controling the location of the boss with threat is essential to victory. But If all classes got a bigger boost to combat advantage damage then the GF becomes even more viable in a group since keeping the bosses back turned will help out the entire party.
DC's are the 2nd most needed class next to CW's. But I feel they dont really fit the damage dealer and healer type cleric as is the 4th edition design. DC's need to be able to boost the power of targets they heal for a short period of time. Say a new passive power. So DC's bring more damage to the table specifically for the melee users who recieve constant heals and are always in the fray taking hits and dealing damage.
GWF's need the most work. They need to be the offensive version of the GF. They need better AOE damage encounters and Dailies, as well as group party offensive buffs like GF party defensive Knights Valor. They need to have an enhanced threat passive. say add it to the bravery passive (makes sense) so they can out threat any other class except the GF. IF they choose to slot that passive and be a tank, when needed. If GF's see more dungeon time then GWFs with there +15% damage to marked targets feat will see more use and the GWF and GF team up will become a viable option. GWF's also need to have all hit caps removed so the GWF and CW become the ideal team for gathering and burning down adds. It needs to be better than any two CW's can do. To do this GWFs need some better AOE damage encounters and dailies. Not so Fast and Spinning Strike are laughable as the GWFs best AOE damage moves.
CW's are versatile enough to be able to adjust to these new group setups they dont need to be change. Just look how they changed from being ledge pushing goons that dominate CN's to Adds gathering Avalanche spamming DPS machines.
These suggestion will not upset anyone and the new options will make the game more fun for all without changing the options that currently work in Game. IE CW's doing all the work plus one or two melee who follow them to do a bit of dirty work.
Post edited by cyanbluestone007 on
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Yeah, because now some people run 3 cw instead of 2 because of lowered action point gain
Many players, including CWs, have not realized this.
As to the rest if your points, some of the features you are asking for already exist in the game design. TRs do excellent damage if they are running the proper encounters for the situation; GFs generally do fine with controlling aggro when necessary, provided that they chose feats and powers for that function (which many do not on account if PvP), and a good GWF does fine with damage. Basically no class will outdamage a CW of equal gear and skill on adds, and that's fine. Part of CW's role is to be the Magical Trash Compactor.
Also, one of the reasons PUGs may be bringing multiple CWs is because they rely on Singularity spam to carry groups of players that may or may not know how to play. Singularity is great and all, but CWs can do so much more than that. Besides, there isn't such a desperate need for it if the group plays semi-intelligently and doesn't pop Shields, Divine Sunbursts, and Frontline Surges at random.
Contagion - Cleric
Testament - Wizard
Pestilence - Ranger
Dominion - Paladin
NIGHTSWATCH
Cryptic barely seem to have the resources to make the limited changes (and certainly not fixes) they currently make. Making a complete class and content overhaul is not going to happen.
Also, Shield does NOTHING for CW defense. Post-Feywild, it is used only in PvE for ledging or sometimes for trash aoe due to its unlimited target cap. In PvP, it is a sure sign of a newb player and easy kill.
Finally, the problem is the endgame content not the classes. If you think of this game as being able to cater for many more classes like DnD, the current class design starts to make more sense. The content is another matter entirely though...
I think this is exactly why the other classes should be buffed. And I like the idea of Class synergy, Especially the GF and TR teamup and GWF and CW teamup. If other classes worked as well together as stacking singularity is on CW's teaming up then every class would once again have a role in the game.
Right now this game is All about being a DC or a CW, then one Melee can fight for the 5th spot. 4th spot if your lucky and/or have a guild that supports you.
Nerf TR single target dps, while simultaneously buffing AOE dps of CW (already king of aoe DPS just most CWs did not realize it and just singularity all the time) while simultaneously introducing new dungeons/changing old dungeons to enforce more trash clearing ie more AOE dps. Oh but they did that by nerfing a lot of ledge spots, presumably to give GWF more of a role in groups?
While breaking GWF tab ability and nerfing their ap gain. cus they totally needed nerfing, right?
idk what the goal was, to make people take a gwf over a 2nd TR in 2cw, 1dc, 2tr groups? yeah lets take #2 aoe dps (arguable vs good GF for #2 spot) with a lot of disadvantages and little to no control powers over #1 aoe dps.
If it wasn't for stealth shortcuts the ideal group right now would be 4cw 1 dc for virtually all content.
As a CW, I just want to point out that one reason why I focus on Arcane Singularity, perhaps too much so, is because that is what many groups expect of us.
I have actually been told in dungeon runs that I should not do any dailies except Arcane Singularity. In fact, in one particular dungeon, when the initial attempt at the final boss didn't go so well, the group complained that it must have been because I didn't launch enough Singularities. Not poor tanking or low DPS, no no, that couldn't have been it, it was because I didn't have an AS in the air every single second of the fight.
So it has gotten to the point where I will sometimes launch an Arcane Singularity, even if another daily might be more appropriate, just as a signal to the rest of the group that I am taking my job as a *control* wizard seriously (in their eyes, anyway).
Now the DEVS want to put a ranged class with high damage aoe, CCs, mobility, and an ice knife that takes absurd damage to fight against boss. Devs do not know what is specialization class apparently ...
This is actually true. The ideal party now is 1 DC, 1 TR, and 3 CW. I am not even making this up.
Politely make the point to your group that AS is only good for grouping/punting a bunch of mobs off a ledge. Otherwise it's quite underwhelming. Mobs can still hit you/use their abilities. If you or other CW's are using SS or SotEA or Oppressive Force they won't hit with Sing up. An occasional Sing isn't bad but OppForce is so much more effective. My group is burning through adds so fast we don't throw trash mobs, even in CN off anymore. Most packs I don't even get to use all my encounters.....
This may seem strange to some but, I clear Malabog Castle fastest with only one CW (me). I spam singularity, which is easy because I am spec'd for max control. Having two or more CW's can be very good or not so good, but it depends on how well they time their dailies. When I play with more than one CW, I sometimes delay my singularity, waiting for the other CW's daily. This increases overall mob control, but reduces my dps. Most CW's are not spec'd/geared for max control, and struggle to pump out singularity (or other daily) non-stop, since the action point nerf to CW shield. Main reason to take more than one CW is because sometimes you get a CW who does poor control. Occasionally, I meet CW's who don't even have singularity. You better have more than one CW in your group, if you want singularity in such a party.
Unless GF/GWF/TR/DC are given powers similar to CW singularity,repel,shield (and maybe an additional AoE stun) .... I don't realistically see how they can perform as effectively as CW in dungeons. Increasing damage would make dungeons easier for everyone. It would also increase one or two shotting in pvp.
This may seem strange to most people, but as a tanky control spec CW, I prefer most dungeon runs with only one CW (me).
Problem with most CW's, and many TR's, and some GWF's and sometimes even GF is they go down too easy. I prefer to play with tanky players, who rarely go down. Party wipes make the dungeons, not so fun, and add a lot more time to the dungeon run.
Look at final boss fight in Malabog Castle. You can have massive dps .... but if Valindra chokes a player who is low on HP, that player will not survive long. At best, at least a few seconds usually pass before dps on Valindra begins, and choke victim is healed by DC. My tanky/regen CW rarely dies to Valindra choke, unless I get no heals, or we are already short one or more players.
Cryptic added boons. Get them and enjoy the permanent buff.
You know what's better than AS for control? dead mobs. In the time it takes your singularity to play out every single mob would already be dead and you'd be on the way to the next group had you just focused on killing them all at once instead of controlling them. Oh but what, all the abilities you use to kill them all also control them, stuns, knockdowns, slows, etc. With 2 CWs Shard + OF + Steal time kills everything but the highest hp mobs in the time it takes you to cast those spells. With 3 it kills everything and you don't even have to wait on steal time to cast, there is no need for a rogue to focus down the higher hp lt/elite/boss type mobs while you wipe out the minions/normals/etc, you just 1-2 shot every.single.mob.
In dungeons with no stealth requirement 4cw 1dc is the best group right now, and the DC's only there so that the Wizards can play sloppy.
But what if all CW's do not have good gear? Sure, CW's with good orb and good weapon enchant can do what you say. Unfortuntately, there are numerous level 60 players who do not even use a weapon or armor enchantment, and wear gear which is very far from best.
One or two good controlling CW with easily obtainable T1 archmage set and rank 4/5 enchantments, should be able to fully or almost fully control a mob (which is not CC resistant) until the mob is down to a non-deadly size. T2 gear and high enchants are not needed to do decent control. If CW specs with high CON, then in addition, he has a better chance to survive hits when the mob is occasionally uncontrolled.
I have played in 3-4 CW parties, with no tank, and its not uncommon to see 1-2 CW's go down during every major fight. How well a 3-4 CW party does depends a lot on timing. If timing of spells is very good, they will kill fast, without difficulty. If timing is less than very good, then it's probably easier to first send in GF/GWF, and then control/kill mobs at leisure.
Do you know what's more important than killing the enemy? Answer: avoiding defeat.
To me, it's much more enjoyable to play in a party which is never defeated than to run back from the previous spawn point.
Yesterday, me (tanky control CW with some good enchants) and an excellent GWF were able to kill the Fardelver boss. Started boss fight with 3 players: 2 CW and GWF. Other CW went down twice and died, when boss was near half-health. GWF was tanking, attacking, and sometimes kiting boss, while I was controlling/killing adds (and a little dps on boss too). I have been in many boss fights where several other party members die, and the fight is finished by 1-3 players. It feels good to be the hero who finishes the fight, but I would prefer that other players sacrifice some dps, in exchange for increased survivability.
I can attest to this , as a CW in any average PUG if you don't spam AS at every opportunity then its a given that some wiseass will at some point make some snide comment on what a bad CW you are , that's why I tend to use it almost exclusively .