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Queue System Has Runied this Game
bladerunner2000
Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 21 Arc User
I've been playing this game for about 6 weeks. Once you level up the only way to proceed with end game content is to have the enough gear score that people will group with you. But the catch 22 is that they won't unless you have at least 11-12K GS. So you have to go the PUG route. Well after having done about 50 PUGs a total of 2 have finished. Not because we were failing but because people constantly quit and then you are screwed.
PW -FIX THE GD QUEUE SYSTEM..... There are many good examples of working systems but you managed totally screw this up. At a minimum there should be the following fixes:
1. Prioritize filling out groups in dungeons when someone leaves
2. Make a huge penalty for users who quit dungeons before they finish. If they quit they should have to wait AT LEAST FOUR HOURS before queuing again. This will stop people from entering a dungeon, inspecting the other groupies and immediately quitting. Also they will think twice about rage quitting the first time there is a wipe on a boss.
Without such changes new users will all leave the game after they level up as they will hit a "wall" trying to get better gear (as it is no longer possible to gear up using AD).
PW -FIX THE GD QUEUE SYSTEM..... There are many good examples of working systems but you managed totally screw this up. At a minimum there should be the following fixes:
1. Prioritize filling out groups in dungeons when someone leaves
2. Make a huge penalty for users who quit dungeons before they finish. If they quit they should have to wait AT LEAST FOUR HOURS before queuing again. This will stop people from entering a dungeon, inspecting the other groupies and immediately quitting. Also they will think twice about rage quitting the first time there is a wipe on a boss.
Without such changes new users will all leave the game after they level up as they will hit a "wall" trying to get better gear (as it is no longer possible to gear up using AD).
Post edited by bladerunner2000 on
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The problem with that is... all too often, I've been in an Alert run where we've lost the fight with the boss still having ten health or less. Then I look up and see that someone quit during the fight. If that person had stayed, we would have won the fight. So their negative mentality about our ability to win became a self-fulfilling prophesy.
So, frankly, I'm right there with you. I'll even settle for a thirty minute "Deserter" debuff, forcing the offending player to wait thirty minutes before queuing again. It would solve a LOT of problems for everyone, in my humble opinion.
The first change to make is to put the option for the group back into the queue as soon as a player leaves the group.
The second change is to remove the progression system dugeons by GS and put a progression system where players choose the difficulty of dugeon between beginner (6k GS), easy (8k GS), medium (10k GS) and hard (12k GS).
The third change is the loot system to vary according to the difficulty chosen in the queue and not by dugeon name.
the fourth change is each dugeon is available at a random time of the day or night, in the same scheme of dugeons of Gauntlgrym.
Oh and get a guild
You should already have a good amount of glory from PVPing. T1 set. Run GG for a few weeks. T2 set and Unicorn Seals for T1 belt, neck, and rings. Bam, bam, and bam. Decent GS, go run T2s.
Join Essence of Aggression: PVP-ing Hard Since Beta!
Progression of Dungeons by GS is fine, and the 4th change alderonthedraco mentioned would completely ruin at least my experience of an already horribly flawed que system.
I do agree that the que system, as it is, is aweful; a lazy model of the traditional que'ing system. However, if you are complaining that you have to que until 11k+ GS, you can hardly blame people for wanting to make sure that they are in a group that can get the job done. You have other options; joining an active guild and making yourself available, que'ing with support class friends to speed up the process (as a TR I pretty much friend every Tank and Cleric that bats an eye at me). Yes I agree it sucks to have to que in a game where on a weekend, a damage class (like myself) waits in que for my daily dungeon upwards of 2 hours.
Some things that I think would make the que better would indeed be a penalty to dropping from a formed grp, 30 min - 1 hr penalty would be sufficient I think.
The most important addition would be an auto matching system for after someone drops; one that prioritizes groups that are already in progress. You can't blame people for dropping, especially after they've been waiting 1hr+ (minimum as a DD) to get into the dungeon, and then the party has had a few wipes, for whatever reasons. Most people don't expect to have to allocate more than few hours for a dungeon that says it takes 45mins to complete, and that's reasonable. It sucks but sometimes people just have to call it because it has run overtime for them. So someway to replace people is the most needed addition.
A system that fills slots from the que if a prospective member fails to accept the initial party invitation would be nice too, as opposed to the current method where everyone gets shuffled back into the waiting list.
However it sounds like some people just want to hit 60 and jump right into epic dungeons without climbing the ladder (playing the game). Get a guild, make some friends, do some PvP, collect some coins... work your way up to T1. Through glory, unicorn coins, and AD you should be able to come up with a decent layout.
Then you do hit a wall, the que's are so long for a TR and people drop often. I'm honestly scarred to do a foundry or PvP and miss out on a dungeon que; Skirmishes come through a bit quicker, but don't have the loot prospects or the replay appeal of dungeons. I get in grp with a buddy, set ourselves in que for the dungeons we want, grab and do our solo dailies then collect petals/concoctions until we are bored, twiddle our thumbs, watch anime... and usually at this point we are still waiting in que for any dungeon to pop. Today we waited literally all day, and got not even one. Someone always failed to make initial acceptance and it shuffled us back into the que.
Being in a guild helps though, today is an example of an especially bad day, but probably a common day for new players considering you can get to 60 quite quickly.
i am still in early stage of CR's tier 2, that took me 6 months by soloing without joining any league (guild clubs), i would about to get burn-out if they start doing gear score.
i am tired and want decent speed of progressions within weeks to few months, but not over 6 months or longer of those grinds. it's not fun to play.
edited:
que'ed was nice idea on the paper, but it is flawed when it deals with player's recent timings may not fit, some went afk'ed, or clueless with character's class, or griefing by bailing out, or finding to exploits, or excuses to leave groups unexpected.
we need replacement to fill in group spots.
DCUO have that options it works well when anyone leaves and got someone else get in anytime.
but half of time, some folks que'ed and sometimes wait for hours, and wasted.
Original Guild Wars have right kind of tools that helps refill groups with henchmens as back up if they find no one else or available. would be nice if they add those "mercenaries" at few zones for amount of limited time, longer they stay and upkeep costs.
1- for pvp when the queue pop up and i see 4 people already green (meaning i will be entering a match after it already started) i instantly refuse, but not because of some elitist way of thinking or whatever, but because if i accept, i enter the pvp match, and receive a big "you are not in the group and will be removed from instance in x secconds" announcement, making it futile for me to even enter. Fix that may be a start for cryptic.
2- even when i have a premade group with all 5 people set, it takes forever for the queue to kick in and let us enter the dungeon, and sometimes we need to requeue for it to work (today for GG i had a 5 man group set and yet it needed 3 attempts to queue before it was asked us to accept to enter the dungeon). I got to ask why is that. If the group is filled we should instantly be set for the dungeon the moment we queue, and not wait forever for it to kick in.
3- make a wow like class filling system. When you queue, set your role as dps/healer/tank/whatever and when the system matches your role with a group in need of it, you enter the instance with that group. At least that way we avoid entering dungeons with just a random bunch of classes who wont be able to beat it because it lacks in some aspect (like CC or healing or aggro management).
honestly cryptic, that queue system is there to be improved ever since beta. With the ammount of fixes and patches you guys are launching, isnt it time to start fixing the current problems rather than just keep launching new content and forgetting what was there before it?
I'd rather see it tied in with my friend's list and be a bit more public. Like the job posting's board in PE, we could have a mercenary's or adventurer's board. Like filling in an application, stating my class, gs and extra comments. I'd like to see a list of people waiting in queue, and when they're friends I want to be able to flag them so we'll be grouped together.
Just 2 cents
See the link in my signature for a very detailed well thought out solution to it and other issues related to it. (group tools)
-Epic Dread Vault Crushed.
Characters (Dragon): Axer (60 Guardian, Leader of Crush It!), Controller (60 Wizard), Warlocker (60 Warlock)
Oh, please. In wow one out one in in seconds, an endless process. The only time I saw a group disband was when the healer and tank were ****e and together.
Also the game needs some method of deciding who is suitable for some dungeons; someone mentioned that GS doesn't reflect a persons ability to roll out of red circles, and this is true. However, it does reflect your ability to survive them to some extent. If there was no GS you would have freshly capped level 60 newcomers queuing for epic dungeons ensuring the failure of the group as a whole. Under such a system it would be a rarity for an epic done through the party matching to succeed. GS is necessary if only for queuing for dungeons through the party matching system.
Also, I have no sympathy for people who complain that PuGs wont take them and they can't que for the dungeons they want because their GS is too low, when they are not in a guild. People complain that their gear doesn't reflect their ability, well get into a guild or at least a make some regular friends, prove your ability, and ask them to take you. Otherwise the only thing the random gamers can see that reflects your ability is your gear and your GS.
I agree with this comment.
There needs to be a leaver penalty for players that bail on dungeons before they are complete like Cryptic already has in Star Trek Online.
The major problem that I've had since hitting level 60 with my CW is just finding a group to run the Daily Dungeons.
The Looking For Group Channel is a Cluster full of Elitist that will only run with players that have 11k + GS and even when I pug I still run into Jerks that scream at the team for not speaking English or having experience on the Dungeon.
My 1st time running Frozen Hart with a Pug group I stated at the spawn in that I had never run the dungeon and would need to be instructed if there was something that I needed to know has did one other on the team.
The one know it all on the team states that they don't have time to teach us and that we'd need to learn it on the fly.
Our team ended up wiping on the 2nd Boss and our know it all team member that did not have the time to tell us what we should expect was able to take the time to insult a couple of team members for not being able to speak English and me for not being able to solo the adds overlooking the fact that he was our Tank and he was to busy running around to hold any argo for the team.
There needs to be a better Qing system here in neverwinter and there needs to be a basic language translation system put in so there is at least so way for players of different languages to try to understand each other.
Elitist players need to understand that new players will need to gain experience by running the dungeons and will not be perfect in every dungeon on their 1st try.
You ran into a tank who was trying to kite the adds so you could dps the boss fast. That is the standard strategy in FH.
Having said this the queue system is terrible, and there are too many CC immune adds in some dungeons, such as karrundax. Some adds being CC immune is one thing but FH last boss you get 4 rimefire golems at least, maybe more spawning. It is an insane amount of adds.
In general the old dungeons need to be re-engineered with special mechanics for the bosses beyond the "let's spawn more adds!"
I agree, some ppl can be elitist jerks and that there is a lot other players can to help a grp succeed, but they simply are too lazy to do; like give instruction, and helpful criticism were needed. However there are basic things that any individual can and should do when attempting a new dungeon, especially if they are doing it through a PuG or que system and not with guildies in vent/mumble.
The internet (google search) and youtube are a wonderful cornucopia of helpful advice. I'm only a humble TR, I carry very little deciding responsibility in a groups success, even a CW carries more than I do in most dungeons. My job is only to dish out damage, maintain my few debuffs, and stay the hell away from red circles, and yet even I research every new dungeon/boss encounter before I attempt it with a group. It takes me usually no more than 5 mins, and I have the peace of mind in knowing my role and the role of my partymates just a little bit better. If something is expected of me in a specific fight or if I'm going need to swap my skills around a bit at least I'll have a better idea. I still let the grp know I'm new, and encourage any advice, but at least I've done my due diligence instead of just whining that random ppl wont tell me how to play the game.
Now guess what ? The queue system will not form parties without a cleric and a GF.
But there are less and less clerics. Guess why ? New patch = more nerf.
The only solution to have quicker queue is having more DCs and GFs or allowing the queue system to form trash groups with no GF and no DC, though no GF wouldn't be a big prob to deal with.
And how could you increase the population of clerics ? Any idea hmmm ?
Definitely not by overnerfing them the way they are patch after patch.
- DRAGON - ( Mehrea DC 13.1k ) - ( Volsung TR 11.7k )
Again is it true that Clerics seem to be the least represented class at max level, with tanks following, and good tanks probably being the rarest of all. That is not the only issue with the que. The NW que is flawed in it's design, it takes longer than needed to match people. It's a defect within the system, not just lack of support classes. Of course DD's should expect to wait longer in que than support classes, but because of the flaws within the queuing system everyone waits longer than necessary with no way to fill party slots if a member leaves or long-term disconnects. Upgrading Clerics so they appeal to more of the population (power gamers) is not a cure to this issue, it would just create larger issues, especially in the areas of PvP where my cleric at least, already shines.
Also someone who plays a Cleric (I play a TR, CW, and DC) too I would not say they are nerfed.
Since only 1 DC is put into a party when you queue more DCs will make wait times even longer. I play a DC and even at DD times it has become almost impossible to find a party just by queueing once I hit 60 and it became worse since Feydark.
The real problem with pugs though is the fact that people have different experience with playing dungeons. While some run past 30 mobs and don't fight others are left behind. While some jump over rocks to avoid fight others pull adds. In the end it just takes a lot longer and is more frustrating to get all people together again to move on than if you would just walked normally through the dungeon and kill all the mobs. I think that is why lots of players mostly go premade and queues thus became even less crowded.
In waiting for some magic patch that will improve things, I have started a GF alt. The reasons are que time is zero, and a tank that can keep the DC alive is often key to avoiding disconnects (it is usually the DC that leaves since he receives no protection). As an immobile lump of iron, I am there to take damage so you do not have to, and always have lowest damage done. I suppose that is why nobody plays GF... You can thank me later when I reach lvl 60.