Back on square one

modimor · September 2013

CW's and TR's are now top classes in pvp again. GWF sentinel are now horrible for low geared players. AP regen for the defensive GF are horrible. Clerics took a pretty big nerf aswell as a ninja nerf to their Dmg mitigration. the dps GWF is squishier then a 3000GS TR. So how to deal with these changes??? Roll a class with ranged abillties. Just aim for whatever is closest to you and press random abillties coz their nothing that can mitigrate dmg anymore. Just point and click and they be at 10%hp before their even in melee range.

Game is in dire need of deminishing returns on CC or some kinda immunity system.

cribstaxxx · September 2013

Lol my Sent is doing just fine, his most expensive pieces of gear are gemmed shirt/pants, I would call that "super geared". I can still tank 3 players just fine, 4-5 if they're bad pugs =P

I also haven't felt any kind of nerf to GF.

degraafination · September 2013

GWF are still beasts. The patch was supposed to balance them out and a good Sent still takes 3-4 players to take him/her down. There are still many running around on Mindflayer with Greater Tenebrous and high regeneration.

clearlyavirgin · September 2013

My cleric took a defense nerf but I just switched out some of my deflect enchants for defense and all is well again.

bigbascdt · September 2013

Just saying, CW is nowhere near the top of the food chain. The only classes I can kill with my CW without it being an extremely long fight, with me having kited and used my abilities all to their best use, or the other player making extreme mistakes, are DC, TR (sometimes, depends on the TR), and other CW depending on how skilled they are. GF/GWF are still nearly impossible to kill for me, and if I do manage to kill them, it takes 4-5 rounds of my encounters and a daily to kill them. Might be exaggerating a bit there, but it takes a lot to kill them. If anything I'd say that CW are middle of the pack/bottom unless very skilled.

deth124 · September 2013

So here's my thought's on PVP as it stands. It's a hell of a lot of fun to play to evenly matched teams that are both cooperating about the same. The CC gets spread around, the focus is harder, etc etc.... How often do you get 2 nice balanced teams? Probably not very often. The classes themselves all seem to fit a nice niche and all feel good, so what's wrong. Simply put, no Diminishing returns and lack of focus on PvP changes. This is like setting your golden egg laying chicken on a boat and setting it ablaze, the game quality and satisfying PvP is there, potentially. Lack of diminishing returns just leaves TR and CW in and obvious advantage, so much so that I am quite often reduced to 10-20% HP if I get 1 CC from behind or my shield gets broken. That 1 CC turns into the chain from a CW and usually I'm dead and the only damage I got was 1 lunging strike (whoopity-doo Basil). The trickster rogue is in a fantastic place in terms of damage dealing, but that 4-5 sec 100% lockout is way too overpowered. There really isn't anything you can do, just run around aimlessly, at least give GF's their shield, not like it won't get broken in 3 seconds anyways (another issue). Here's my thoughts on addressing PvP in a swift satisfying manner.

#1. Add Diminishing Returns to PvP, not much else to say there, just get on it.

#2. Trickster Rogues and Control Wizards need to have their CC kits revamped. Best option IMO would be to add an automatic change to ability effect when targeting a player (or upon entering the arena/battleground), reducing CC times or removing some altogether and just keep the damage.

#3. Just from my experience, Guardian Fighters could use some other way to be sticky. Seems control wizards are just waiting for the Lunging Strike to dodge it and then they can safely blow up on you. GF should be able to solo a TR. If it weren't for the 4-5 sec easy-peasy lockout button they have, I can skill kill one no problem.

I understand that the game does balance out more when you group up. But here's my quam with that idea; you want people to split up and assault towers in PvP, but you focus the balance of PvP on full team balance? Individual balance should be addressed with group balance always in mind.

Key points:
-- Game needs Diminishing Returns, quickly, not next year when you already lost 5 million potential micro-transactions because guys like me don't see active change and aren't playing when you do finally add it in.
-- Crowd control reduction on control wizard and trickster rogue
-- Guardian fighter's could use a little stickyness
-- Cerics needs better self healing, but not much or it will be overpowered (post defensive nerf)

Game looks great and has so much potential, I'm so close to spending money on this game, but not if these issues go unaddressed.

Thanks for reading and look forward to seeing competent replies, and hopefully some words from a developer.

ZMetal

joncans · September 2013

Hmmm, I am kind of on the fence with my outlook. Where I agree with you is: CW are the FOTM (flavor of the month), and are tearing up PVP. I think if the devs added more cover to the two maps or simply nerfed their range by 5-10 feet then that would fix my personal gripes. TR's are still TR's. I hate them, plain and simple. They still almost always top the scoreboard (take that with a grain as scoring is pretty lame). Sentinel regen GWF are rare, but a good one is pretty much Godmode, requiring 3+ teammates to take down. GF are still slow and insta-targeted by teams. It's funny, it's like the shield is a beacon for incoming dmg, lol. And poor DC. The heals are fine, but I feel sad when I fight one, because as a GF myself, I just punish them. They need a significant buff in either their dmg output, or ability to really debuff you. Although I have faced a couple mega regen/deflect DC's and those fights last as long as GF v GF.

Where I disagree is that since the patch, I have had a lot more close and very fun matches. Just today on my daily, a Pug v Pug went 1000>977. We won, but I think only because one TR had the super fast mount and was just running to enemy team base. Yes there are still the Pug vs. premade steam rolls, but Pug v Pug seem to be playing out a lot more balanced, which I really like.

degraafination · September 2013

So much depends on who gets the stun-lock chain first (except for some Sent GWFs, because even if a CW gets his in first, they'll survive). GFs depend. So many go Conqueror spec for PVP and they pump up ArP and Crit but keep Defense and Deflect low. They're not too hard to drop as a CW. Again, it depends on who gets the stun-lock chain first.

TRs who run ITC are my personal pain. Just had a match where both opposing TRs did not run ITC. Talk about CC bait! That was fun, but not common.

And so much depends on teamwork. We did an in-house PMvPM a couple days ago. The two opposing CWs stuck together the entire time and they were dropping us like flies with debuffs and CC.

gudgeonator · September 2013

modimor wrote: »

CW's and TR's are now top classes in pvp again. GWF sentinel are now horrible for low geared players. AP regen for the defensive GF are horrible. Clerics took a pretty big nerf aswell as a ninja nerf to their Dmg mitigration. the dps GWF is squishier then a 3000GS TR. So how to deal with these changes??? Roll a class with ranged abillties. Just aim for whatever is closest to you and press random abillties coz their nothing that can mitigrate dmg anymore. Just point and click and they be at 10%hp before their even in melee range.

Game is in dire need of deminishing returns on CC or some kinda immunity system.

Just out of interest - I've not read of the ninja nerf to DC damage mitigation. And another post suggested swapping deflect for defense to counter it. What was the change, and why does focussing on defense rather than deflect have an impact on it?

And yes - CWs and TRs are doing pretty well in pvp. TRs always were of course. I'm happy with that - nice that they won't feel gimpy barring the dreaded premade v pug encounter or the occasional teneb steamroller.

esteena · September 2013

High vizier stacks to infinity... shhh...don't tell anyone..

degraafination · September 2013

esteena wrote: »

High vizier stacks to infinity... shhh...don't tell anyone..

There must be some way to stop those regen Sentinels! Nothing like falling onto and point and dropping Oppressive Force! Mwahaha!

modimor · September 2013

The Sentinel GWF are very dependant on gear, much more so then other classes. Sure they can take a punch, but without those Tenes, their dmg are laugheble, and not a threat to anyone. You can simply ignore em. If you don't have the gear for it, like stacking Crit/Power/Arp, with Sent spec, then they are just as squishy as anyone else. if you go full dps, then you're the squishiest class in the game due to lack of dodges, your only option is to push Unstopp and run away. And since running now drains Stamina much faster you won't even get very far. GF, just spam Frost ray and they loose their block, then you can start to chain stun em. DC's, will draw atention from almoast their whole team. Everyone spam CC on em until their dead. They can't do much in pug pvp anymore. CW sure, they are squishy IF you land a hit on em. But with the 3 dodges and buff to their CC they are one of the hardest class to take down now. TR's sit in stealth for 5-8 seconds wich means they will almoast always get into melee range unharmed. Then a couple of seconds in GOD mode with ITC, then throwing baseballs for for a couple of seconds, back into stealth again. Hardest class to kill, exept for the 10milion AD worth of gear GWF.

chipster · September 2013

bigbascdt wrote: »

Just saying, CW is nowhere near the top of the food chain. The only classes I can kill with my CW without it being an extremely long fight, with me having kited and used my abilities all to their best use, or the other player making extreme mistakes, are DC, TR (sometimes, depends on the TR), and other CW depending on how skilled they are. GF/GWF are still nearly impossible to kill for me, and if I do manage to kill them, it takes 4-5 rounds of my encounters and a daily to kill them. Might be exaggerating a bit there, but it takes a lot to kill them. If anything I'd say that CW are middle of the pack/bottom unless very skilled.

Are you writing with your eye close? Or are you PvP at 10s? Your exaggeration simply discounted on what you had say..

cribstaxxx · September 2013

deth124 wrote: »

So here's my thought's on PVP as it stands. It's a hell of a lot of fun to play to evenly matched teams that are both cooperating about the same. The CC gets spread around, the focus is harder, etc etc.... How often do you get 2 nice balanced teams? Probably not very often. The classes themselves all seem to fit a nice niche and all feel good, so what's wrong. Simply put, no Diminishing returns and lack of focus on PvP changes. This is like setting your golden egg laying chicken on a boat and setting it ablaze, the game quality and satisfying PvP is there, potentially. Lack of diminishing returns just leaves TR and CW in and obvious advantage, so much so that I am quite often reduced to 10-20% HP if I get 1 CC from behind or my shield gets broken. That 1 CC turns into the chain from a CW and usually I'm dead and the only damage I got was 1 lunging strike (whoopity-doo Basil). The trickster rogue is in a fantastic place in terms of damage dealing, but that 4-5 sec 100% lockout is way too overpowered. There really isn't anything you can do, just run around aimlessly, at least give GF's their shield, not like it won't get broken in 3 seconds anyways (another issue). Here's my thoughts on addressing PvP in a swift satisfying manner.

#1. Add Diminishing Returns to PvP, not much else to say there, just get on it.

#2. Trickster Rogues and Control Wizards need to have their CC kits revamped. Best option IMO would be to add an automatic change to ability effect when targeting a player (or upon entering the arena/battleground), reducing CC times or removing some altogether and just keep the damage.

#3. Just from my experience, Guardian Fighters could use some other way to be sticky. Seems control wizards are just waiting for the Lunging Strike to dodge it and then they can safely blow up on you. GF should be able to solo a TR. If it weren't for the 4-5 sec easy-peasy lockout button they have, I can skill kill one no problem.

I understand that the game does balance out more when you group up. But here's my quam with that idea; you want people to split up and assault towers in PvP, but you focus the balance of PvP on full team balance? Individual balance should be addressed with group balance always in mind.

Key points:
-- Game needs Diminishing Returns, quickly, not next year when you already lost 5 million potential micro-transactions because guys like me don't see active change and aren't playing when you do finally add it in.
-- Crowd control reduction on control wizard and trickster rogue
-- Guardian fighter's could use a little stickyness
-- Cerics needs better self healing, but not much or it will be overpowered (post defensive nerf)

Game looks great and has so much potential, I'm so close to spending money on this game, but not if these issues go unaddressed.

Thanks for reading and look forward to seeing competent replies, and hopefully some words from a developer.

ZMetal

Lol let me get this straight you want to reduce CW and TR's CC but buff GF?? My CW's CC spells last maybe 1 second if that each, and my TR uses only shadow strike which is about a 1-1.5 second daze. My GF however can bull charge 1.3 seconds + air time ~2 seconds, frontline 2.3 seconds, daily /w airtime ~2.5-3 seconds and during this over 7 seconds of straight prone I do bonus damage from them being prone, and bonus damage for them being controlled, but that's not OP huh? Not to mention if I want to switch out bull for knight's challenge I can just get 20k crits all day long with minimal gear...

A well played GF can beat CW and TR easily, you just need to work on the well played part I think.

Back on square one

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