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Defense or HP?
cayon
Member, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild Users Posts: 3 Arc User
Hi all!
I'm a fresh lvl60 cleric and is now enchanting my gears.
According to my calculation, if I focus on def I can get it to 2.5k or more and that would smash the softcap badly.
Should I forget about it and increase my HP instead? Got 20k HP now.
Edit: according to my calculation, I should get around either 4k power 4k crit and 4.5k rec or 4k power 3.5k crit 5k rec
which one is better or can you propose another better option?
I'm a fresh lvl60 cleric and is now enchanting my gears.
According to my calculation, if I focus on def I can get it to 2.5k or more and that would smash the softcap badly.
Should I forget about it and increase my HP instead? Got 20k HP now.
Edit: according to my calculation, I should get around either 4k power 4k crit and 4.5k rec or 4k power 3.5k crit 5k rec
which one is better or can you propose another better option?
Post edited by cayon on
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It depends on your playstyle.
If you have an aggressive playstyle and often are the "tank" or puller in a group, therefore aggroing a lot of mobs plus want to minimize the number of potions you use without reducing their effectiveness, Defense over 2k can work well. Defense is one of the stats least affected by DR (up to 3500 every 1,000 gives at least 2% extra damage resistance).
But if your objective is to prevent yourself being one-shot by boss aoe or in pvp, you are far better off stacking HP and Deflection after 2k Defense. Since this suits most Cleric PvE healers backseat playstyles (in my experience on my non-DC endgame alts), this tends to be a better option.
ps.defensive slot=either def or hp, power is another story
k now new topic =p
according to my calculation, I should get around either 4k power 4k crit and 4.5k rec or 4k power 3.5k crit 5k rec
which one is better or can you propose another better option?
I'm thinking of now stopping at 2k def and stacking up more HP and see how it works
been having problem surviving all the way to lvl60 T_T
With just HP it might be hard to get HP back up if you take consistant dmg, With Defence you can pretty much sit on full HP all the time.
There are a few powers and feats (and armour set bonuses) that do stuff based on max HP, so there are additional benefits to stacking health, but yeah, I'd prefer to take less damage than simply be ABLE to take more.
Long version;
The best in this case is HP instead of defense, despite stacking one stat and ignoring another is rarely favorable. (This is since you get DR from AC and forced Defense from your armor and pants).
We'll need some base assumptions to make our calculations to prove this;
Lets assume your a level 60 endgame DC,
lets assume you have around 21'000 base HP (around what I had)
Lets assume you have no feats changing your HP or defense gain from stats.
lets assume you take the boon giving you 700 more HP.
And lets assume you use 4 pieces of T2 gear (all give the same as far as I know) giving you 990 defense and +12 AC (to a total of 22)
Lets assume you use gemmed pants for 54 more defense
And finally you are using a purple ancient belt for 616 more HP
So, here we got
22'316 HP and 1044 defense without any enchantments.
The formula for Defense stat to DR is 49.99*x/(1643.6+x) where x is your Defense.
This means your effective HP, without any enchantments is
22'316/(1-0.06-0.01(49.99*1044/(1643.6+1044)) = 27'694
We're just getting started at level 60, so we'll use rank 6 enchantments,
With given gear we would have 3 defense slots, so our options are:
3 Radiant rank 6 (600 HP each): 33'436 effective HP
2 Radiant, 1 Azure (150 Defense): 32'604 effective HP
1 Radiant, 2 Azure: 31'772 effective HP
3 Azure: 30'940 effective HP
We're now a bit richer from farming CN, so we upgrade to rank 7,
3 Radiant rank 6 (740 HP each): 34'275 effective HP
2 Radiant, 1 Azure (185 Defense): 33'241 effective HP
1 Radiant, 2 Azure: 32'207effective HP
3 Azure: 31'174 effective HP
Now, lets see what happens when we add rank 8 enchantments (we have plenty of AD, but not tons of it (yet)).
3 Radiant rank 8 (880 HP each): 35'120 effective HP
2 Radiant, 1 Azure (220 defense): 33'882 effective HP
1 Radiant, 2 Azure: 32'644 effective HP
3 Azure: 31'405 effective HP
So far , 3 Radiant for HP would be the most efficient combination, lets try with rank 9 ones (as we've gotten richer since last time).
3 Radiant rank 9 (1040 HP each): 36'094 effective HP
2 Radiant, 1 Azure (260 defense): 34'618 effective HP
1 Radiant, 2 Azure: 33'143 effective HP
3 Azure: 31'667 effective HP
Also here the Radiant ones for HP wins, so it's safe to assume HP is better to stack than Defense.
With rings with Defense slot (Still same basic stats tho, just to prove point, rank 8 enchants are assumed);
5 Radiant, 0 Azure: 38'690 effective HP
4 Radiant, 1 Azure: 37'416 effective HP
3 Radiant, 2 Azure: 36'142 effective HP
2 Radiant, 3 Azure: 34'867 effective HP
1 Radiant, 4 Azure: 33'593 effective HP
0 Radiant, 5 Azure: 32'318 effective HP
It was perhaps narrow minded in that peoples gear varies enough that in some cases this might not be absolute truth, but I suspect they didn't mean an absolute 9 or nothing, but rather to slot something else at lower ranks.
I don't think this is right. You would have a flat 6% DR from Armor Class, and 19.42% from Defense for a total of 25.42% total DR. The amount of damage that you could take would be TotalHP/(1-TotalDR), or 29,922 in this example. To be explicit:
29,922 - (29,922 * 0.2542) = 22,316
HP does seem to have a slight advantage, but that's only with the base DR of 19.42%. Once you start adding extra DR to the figures, Defense starts to give more effective HP. Say were were to slot feated Foresight and stand in your Astral Shield or Hallowed Ground. Azure enchants come out ahead then. If you start including Temporary HP, Azure pulls ahead again; the more base HP you have, the more effective HP you get from DR.
Here's a link to my calculations if you want to look at them.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Ary1XEcNOABtdGh3d3BvQzdlZmZoNnRkWkFZdEhiNXc#gid=0
I wasn't necessarily attempting to model any specific power. Now that we can see TempHP amounts, it looks like DA gives 20% temp HP at Rank 1, so I am guessing Rank 3 would be 30%, though it could be (20*1.05*1.05) 22.05%. I also have no clue about the Hallowed Ground amounts. Somewhere around 30% damage/DR sounds right. It's possible that it's been changed since the last time someone tested it. Or it may be broken and do nothing. Honestly with this game, it's impossible to know without testing every patch.
HP has some other advantages that are hard to quantify. Miracle Healer heals, immune to Armor Penetration, and things like that which would be entirely dependent on the build and playstyle of a particular DC.
Defense also increases the effective HP from TempHP. That shows in the charts, but I didn't say it explicitly.
Another thing, which speaks in the favor of HP is Constitution and the Heroic feat, not sure whether they stack with enchantments or not, but can be tested tomorrow afternoon. (I will post the answer to my tests, and some other ones.)
That is a completely useless statement unless you can back it up with facts.
Sci-fi author: The Gods We Make, The Gods We Seek, and Ji-min
Power: 4412
Recovery: 2640 (2900)
Critical: 1629 (2800)
Defense: 1517
HP: 20K
In this situations I've to choose def or hp?
I see your calculation but it's TLDR sorry
We are definitely dominating, and we are always about to win.
Graph on the matter: https://www.desmos.com/calculator/aulcwurl6x (Yes, I love graphs)
As with all things in life, a focus is a trade-off, so I'm not packing much power, crit, armpen (zero), or recovery. Do I notice that ? not really at this stage as :
(a) I've never sought dps or heal maximization
(b) mobs melt like butter under a full set of DC debuffs & AOEs and I never need to slot healing of any type in solo pve (sharandar & GG mostly)
(c) In dungeons I'm focussed on doing the mitigate & spot heal role and that seems to be working fine. The wait for a new astral shield is obviously longer than for a recovery stacker - so i'll throw a healing word, or seal/dot a mob or 2 to generate divinity while I wait.
(d) In pvp I'm focussed on staying alive while focussed, and simultaneously doing the mitigate, spot heal & debuff dance for the team in pvp. Also seems to work.
(e) Got a stone. Stone beefs up the stats I have not prioritized when outside pvp.
Pretty sure I'll be getting some high crit & recovery gear to swap in for the tougher T2 dungeons though to give me some wiggle room.