test content
Logo
What is the Arc Client?
Install Arc
Forums > Home› Class Forums›
Can overstacking defense be good?
veramis1
Banned Users Posts: 191 Bounty Hunter
I used to have a guardian fighter with 5000 defense until I was defeated by the arcane reservoir, and with feats and AC, had a total of 51% damage reduction. My rationale for stacking defense to the point where it took about 500 defense to raise 1% was that as you get closer to 100%, each point is more valuable. And each point becomes more valuable when paired with a cleric teammate or using the acolyte of kelemvor pet that casts a 10% damage reduction buff.
Just to illustrate, consider the difference between 40% and 50% damage reduction. 40% reduction means you take 60% of incoming damage, but 50% means taking 50% of incoming damage, or 16.66% relatively less damage.
If we were to stand in astral shield, 20% damage reduction on top of our 40% and 50% damage reduction, it becomes 60% vs 70%, or 40% vs 30% damage taken, or 25% relatively less damage.
Throw in foresight which is 11%, will make it 71% vs 80% (1% gone to waste due to defense reduction cap), and it becomes 31% relatively less damage.
Hallowed ground daily gives 30% damage reduction, which by itself without foresight or astral shield can bring the 50% damage reduction guardian to the damage reduction cap.
You could say that hallowed ground and foresight together would bring a 40% damage reduction guardian to the cap and that 50% is overkill, or that you don't need more than 30-35% damage reduction to reach the 80% defense cap after cleric buffs or beat all content in the game. I wouldn't disagree with such arguments, but just wanted to share this information because I think defense is potentially more valuable than some people seem to think. And anyway, it's kind of fun to be hit by fulmino for less than 150 damage after deflecting and the 150 heal from briartwine+astral seal.
Just to illustrate, consider the difference between 40% and 50% damage reduction. 40% reduction means you take 60% of incoming damage, but 50% means taking 50% of incoming damage, or 16.66% relatively less damage.
If we were to stand in astral shield, 20% damage reduction on top of our 40% and 50% damage reduction, it becomes 60% vs 70%, or 40% vs 30% damage taken, or 25% relatively less damage.
Throw in foresight which is 11%, will make it 71% vs 80% (1% gone to waste due to defense reduction cap), and it becomes 31% relatively less damage.
Hallowed ground daily gives 30% damage reduction, which by itself without foresight or astral shield can bring the 50% damage reduction guardian to the damage reduction cap.
You could say that hallowed ground and foresight together would bring a 40% damage reduction guardian to the cap and that 50% is overkill, or that you don't need more than 30-35% damage reduction to reach the 80% defense cap after cleric buffs or beat all content in the game. I wouldn't disagree with such arguments, but just wanted to share this information because I think defense is potentially more valuable than some people seem to think. And anyway, it's kind of fun to be hit by fulmino for less than 150 damage after deflecting and the 150 heal from briartwine+astral seal.
Post edited by veramis1 on
0
Comments
If you are going to stack defensive stats work on deflection, Regeneration and health.
Deflection gives you a flat 50% damage reduction and regeneration/health give you more effective health.
5k defense
2.6k deflect (29.5ish% chance)
1400 regen
1200 lifesteal
31k hp
2.2k recovery
1k arp (21ish% ignore damage resistance)
~700 critical strike
I had no defense enchantments or runes, but wore indomitable champion set and CN set, both of which give big defense boosts. I reached soft caps for all skills except crit, but I'll admit HP is better than life steal for a purely defense build, I went life steal because I didn't want to be a total damage sponge with no dps or self healing.
Gloom level 60 Control Wizard
Dusk level 60 Trickster Rogue
Dawn level 60 Devoted Cleric
Eclipse level 60 Hunter Ranger
Wrath level 60 Great Weapon Fighter
Jinx level 60 Scourge Warlock
The way defense increases at such a fast rate and than almost flatlines it irksome to me. Being human probably has something to do with that, as it really diminishes the value of the human racial for 3% more defense. WoW was able to set it up so that even though it diminshed, every point increased your time to live just as much as the last one.
Daria - Dwarf Sentinel GWF (mistaken for Halfling a lot)
Karia (aka "The Pug") - Human Combat HR
Kayd - Human Conqueror GF - Retired
All the mitigation abilities I am aware of go into the negatives and stack on top of ArPen. As long as the resistance ignored from ArPen and Dex isn't higher than the resistance of the mob, ArPen is a larger damage increaser than crit. And it it is much cheaper stat allocation wise.
Daria - Dwarf Sentinel GWF (mistaken for Halfling a lot)
Karia (aka "The Pug") - Human Combat HR
Kayd - Human Conqueror GF - Retired
You are right about the overall point effectiveness in scale but aren't taking likely adversary content into consideration.
Gloom level 60 Control Wizard
Dusk level 60 Trickster Rogue
Dawn level 60 Devoted Cleric
Eclipse level 60 Hunter Ranger
Wrath level 60 Great Weapon Fighter
Jinx level 60 Scourge Warlock
Caexar, I read that t2 trash mobs have damage reduction of high 10's to low 20's, and a bit higher in t2.5. The way I play my turtle gf, I tank everything in a boss fight baby. Spamming iron warrior and enforced threat, coupled with indomitable champion armor set shield bonus and shield master passive, keeps my shield meter up very often. Admittedly I do terrible damage, but it keeps bad public teams alive
Worst GF NA
Say you have 45% damage reduction and 20% deflection, you get (1.00-0.20)*30,000/(1.00-0.45)+0.20*30,000*2/(1+0.45)=52,000 effective HP. Using this formula you get that 1 point of hp will add about 1.7 effective HP.
If you check the marginal value of 1 point of defense, it will again be about 1.7. But remember, in an enchantment, you get about 4x as many HP than you do defense with an equivalent defense enchantment.
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?472651-Buffbot-Tactician-Turtle-Build-PVE&p=5891011#post5891011
builds more threat when attacking marked monster
trample the fallen feat helps too and it adds damage
dont really need potent challenge its a waste of points imo
you dont need to spam enforced threat (use it only if your DC/CW are getting mobbed)
I'm sorry but I disagree with most of what you are saying:
Marking builds no threat unless you are using Enchants Threat Passive.
Marking a target and striking it according to tooltip doubles the threat gained. But after testing Mark appears to have little to no threat gain unless using enhanced mark passive even striking creatures.
Potent Challenge is the BEST way to gain threat as it puts a base amount of threat gain on each and every attack.
This was notable when I tested this back during BETA and even wrote a very nice guide on threat mechanic's back then before the threat patch.
All you need to tank in NW is Potent Challenge and if you still are having issues then you need to use Enhanced Mark and mark targets.
The only reason you mark targets now should be to add the damage increase.
only reason to mark is for damage?
mark them all the time for better aggro
if you have daunting challenge its 10% less damage for your party
with or without potent challenge you can lure mobs from your party easily i even tried build with no trample feat dont have any problem luring mobs away from others
mark is useless