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Forest Looping Path 01: TREES
zbkolde
Member Posts: 689 Arc User
This is the map that was covered in like thousands of trees after the Feywild patch. They "fixed" it by removing the trees... except that now the terrain is entirely different. There is very little vegetation. As pictured, there are trees in the corn field. All of the "extra things" in my quest are now seriously hidden as the terrain has totally changed around them. Aside from the graphic quality of the trees being quite drab and ugly now, the whole map is just different. I don't think i can salvage my quest line from this.
Oh, by the way, this is the map itself. The corn and fences are part of the map, not something i can move or edit.
Oh, by the way, this is the map itself. The corn and fences are part of the map, not something i can move or edit.
Post edited by zbkolde on
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It's as if they rebuilt it from scratch. More of the map is flat now, there are less hills, but then there are hills in different places than they were before. There are hardly any bushes at all, and since my budget is already maxed, i can't just add them. All the little extras in my quest are now broken, like the hidden mushrooms and the patrolling animals. I think a mountain has grown around my cave entrance. It doesn't look like the same map.
[UGC] Kolde Acres (Discontinued)
[UGC] Kolde Acres (Discontinued)
This is before Feywild. See how lush and green and pretty it looks? The trees are a rich brown, and everything is green and pretty.
This is how it looks now. Drab. Bare. Ugly.
My budget is at 1500/1500. I cannot add vegetation.
[UGC] Kolde Acres (Discontinued)
They sure "optimized" any beauty out of that map.
I'll bet authors will think long and hard before using any Cryptic pre-"generated" maps.
Hopefully they haven't completed their "fixing" of it.
Encounter Matrix | Advanced Foundry Topics
My thoughts exactly. Was thinking if i'm going to take the time to rebuild, i'm using a blank map. The actual map terrain may not have been affected, it was the added rocks and boulders that are different. So, from now on, i guess i will stick with flat or non-detailed maps.
[UGC] Kolde Acres (Discontinued)
Kolde Acres: Counting Chickens is no more, but it will be forever remembered in a journal inside the new farm house.
And yes, lesson learned... only empty maps from here on out.
[UGC] Kolde Acres (Discontinued)
Make a list of all the things that are different.
For example: Post the map coordinates of the trees that break the map, much like your photo above.
List all the types of bushes and grasses that are missing and where they need to go.
Try to reconstruct it in a line by line post, like a map for the dev's.
There is no reason that we can't ASK the dev's to fix the map a 2nd time.
My Foundry is really hurt by the lack of ground vegetation and some of the missing trees and roots as well. It feels so empty and less lifelike. I too have detail caps I'm pushing against as well.
In the end, nothing is permanent. Lots of detailed maps were NOT effected, and one day.... the servers will shut down, and all of this will go away. Until then I will just roll the dice and let them fall where they may.
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I'd agree that you should ask them to move those trees out of your cave though, and otherwise help to fix your map. That's too much stuff for you to move, but my characters have already started work on a new farm elsewhere, they'll be fine.
[UGC] Kolde Acres (Discontinued)
Another thing, the stock maps appear to be 'baked' somehow. In other words, once the designer has placed all his trees, rocks and other details, the map becomes 'baked' and fixed, meaning that new details can be added, but the old details are fixed and permanent. I wonder if author's could do the same thing with their maps?
One last thing, it would be great if we could share user created maps with one another!
This has been a popular topic since the beta. The challenge is to realize that less is more in art design for games. Putting tons of detail into maps can be tempting, but it usually doesn't make it look better. It's all about placing the right details. The first two chapters of From the Shadows, my own campaign, aren't anywhere near the detail limits and still look pretty good. Too much detail would make the game bog down for a lot of players, which is why it's not allowed.
The stock maps are indeed baked, which is why they contain more stuff than we can add. I think allowing custom baking might get too complex for most players, so I wouldn't hold my breath for that feature. Would be kind of nice though.
That's absolutely true from a design point. However, when it comes to outdoor maps, every clump of grass, every bush, every tree... basically everything that turns a relatively blank "lawn" of an outdoor map into an interesting terrain, quickly sucks up the map's budget. Throw in a farm, and every one of those crops is taking up budget. Have a village with buildings, fences, trees, a well, laundry hanging from a line, etc.? That's all wonderful, but it's hard to squeeze on an outdoor map whose budget is being depleted by all the foliage.
Yes, less is more. But large outdoor maps need bigger budgets just to create a detailed terrain.
I'm sorry your farm map wasn't set back to its original state after the 'fix'; you had done a beautiful job on the detailing.
That all being said, it's only the object placement that changed... the terrain should be identical. Only "Forest Looping Path 01" and "Forest Island 01" were using the procedural tech, so the rest of our maps should never have this problem.
This really does depend on how large the maps are that you're trying to fill. Most people who know my maps know that I always start with 100% empty maps and build from there, but my maps are usually very linear, very railroaded and pretty short. But by keeping the area down, I can make the maps themselves highly detailed.
Thank you so much for commenting here.
[UGC] Kolde Acres (Discontinued)
Forums are like Sanctuary Districts, complete with Gimmes, Ghosts and Dims.
Yes, those trees were a huge bug.
[UGC] Kolde Acres (Discontinued)
Forums are like Sanctuary Districts, complete with Gimmes, Ghosts and Dims.
Putting on my developer/geek/ai/procedural interest hat...
Can you tell us any more about this procedural object placement -- any online algorithm names/descriptions? Any game developer conference presentations, etc.? Love this kind of stuff and would love to know some more gory details if possible.
Encounter Matrix | Advanced Foundry Topics
Thank you for the response. If you plan on revising the map further, for my map, I was able to move my custom cave and restore it to 95% of the original look. For me, its the empty spaces that are missing the old trees (just south of the northern road) and ground cover feel that I can't really replicate due to detail limits. The map just doesn't feel alive anymore.
My biggest issue right now is a teleporter bug. My cave teleporter is "floating" above were it should be, yet when I go in 3D mode and target the white box the cave enterance warps the image to the location I had placed in the 3D editor. However when published it goes back to the "floating" non-3D placed location.
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