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Fix PvP quitting and grave camping please
walldoh
Member Posts: 0 Arc User
There are few things in this game more frustrating than being the recipient of a less than full team while PvPing. Generally this is the result of an overpowered team wailing on an underpowered team, so people just up and quit the match. Because there are zero repercussions to quitting your team and re-queuing until you get the matchup you desire, it is rampant. When your team gets stuck with 4 players (or in many cases even fewer) versus 5 in these cases, your already frustrating experience is just heaped on. Knowing these quitters have left you in a bad position and are not feeling any repercussions makes it even worse. Yes yes, before the "smart" responses of "well you can quit too" come rolling in, that doesn't solve the problem and frankly isn't in my nature to give up.
Now to my second issue. What on earth is the value of allowing opposing factions access (regardless of how) to the enemy graveyard. Come now, a stack of convenient rocks from which you can launch yourself and land in the enemy graveyard to camp them is in extreme poor sportsmanship. My solution....automatically kill the person(s) who manage to "find" themselves through gyrations in the enemy graveyard. Continuing to support and sanction poor sportsmanship in a PvP environment is poor taste at best and I can think of a few other words that would more accurately describe it but will not. If this is how you wish to treat those who support your business that is your call. However it would be my call to cease supporting your business.
Now to my second issue. What on earth is the value of allowing opposing factions access (regardless of how) to the enemy graveyard. Come now, a stack of convenient rocks from which you can launch yourself and land in the enemy graveyard to camp them is in extreme poor sportsmanship. My solution....automatically kill the person(s) who manage to "find" themselves through gyrations in the enemy graveyard. Continuing to support and sanction poor sportsmanship in a PvP environment is poor taste at best and I can think of a few other words that would more accurately describe it but will not. If this is how you wish to treat those who support your business that is your call. However it would be my call to cease supporting your business.
Post edited by walldoh on
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So:
- ladders
- rewards
- matchmaking system
1) Rage Quit - The people you are referring to.
2) Server instability - Since the last "2" patches the game has become very instable and many game clients are crashing. For some reason you are not returned to party in PvP, your just out.
3) Poor Party make-up - You will see some leave before the match starts for various reasons, no Cleric, no tank, too many squishies, etc.
4) Demonstrated Bad tactical play or node capping without regard for tactics - If the whole group takes the easy point first, it's gonna be a bad run. If you have 2 or 3 capping nodes without regard for tactics, it's gonna be a bad run. This is a party I will bail on in a heartbeat. I like to play a good tactically close match with peeps trying to win. If I know I'm in a group whose only goal is to get 1000 points and then quit, I'm out.
Why not just stay and meat it out? The answer is easy, they don't want to waste valuable game time on a daily, they want 2 matches and through.
The only way to fix this is to separate the PvPr's from the general population with ranked matches or some other incentive based competitive matching system. This is years down the road at the rate Cryptic is moving, I doubt you will ever see it. This is evidenced by there fix to LFG system. They simply added a dedicated chat channel... Simple fixes indicate a level of intended quality towards development.
I love this game so far but the question is how much is Cryptic willing to invest in potential improvements with 3 new class A titles looming in early 2014? Cryptic and Perfect world are very cash based companies. They bought into a winner in Neverwinter but I don't beleive they ever thought it would be so popular, so I imagine were not going to see much more than a lot of fu fu fluff <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> like the Feywild pack to bilk the population before they move on. I was so disappointed with that one, it will be a while before I drop another $60 on this game.
Don't get me wrong, I hope I'm wrong. We'll see in the next update. If something big is not released in the next month or two at the most, I give this game till Spring. When I say something big, I'm talking Ranger and Warlock free with an expansion to PvP into the campaign system. Or maybe another massive PvP/PVE campaign based system. I don't mind paying for fluff if there's enough real content expansion to back it up. Fury of the Feywild was disappointing. No Ranger, No Druid, No fixes to Guantlgrym, No Warlock, No improved Grouping, just server instability, a lot of fluff, game changing NERFS, and buggy campaign system.
I agree with matchmaking and other "proper" pvp environment solving a portion of the problem, however, people quitting for other reasons will still need some sort of solution. The server instability issue mentioned is a valid reason for the less than full parties, one which you truly never can mitigate as the problems might be server side, client side (ie sub par computers), it happens, however the problem is exacerbated by the fact that you cannot receive a replacement player upon a quit regardless of form. wraithyn mentioned a few other reasons as well. Clearly the existing model is broken and needs repair. I despise being on the "I have 5 team members, you have less" just as much as the reverse. Most people who PvP regularly (beyond the daily wins for reward and casual pvpers) want a real match. PvP is about matching your skills against those of others.
Some suggestions beyond those mentioned thus far:
1) allow replacement players to come in.
2) Provide a scalable reward system for those who are afflicted by quitters. For example, every second your team is behind in sheer numbers you gain a small boost to your end rewards. It's aggravating being absolutely decimated because of a clearly broken pvp system and walking away with no or such a small reward it might as well be nothing at all.
3) quitting regardless of reason (even if it is a game crash) invokes a timeout period where you cannot participate in pvp in any form (including the gauntlgrym). The server side crash issues will be addressed/fixed unless PW/Cryptic doesn't care to fix them in which case this discussion is moot and the game dies at some near point. The client side crashes are frankly the responsibility of the PC owner to make sure their equipment can handle the game, I shouldn't be punished because someone wants to PVP on a Casio wristwatch.
4) Limit the number of pre-made people in any group to half (or 3) players that can queue for any PvP session. The remaning team must be pugged. Or 3 of them get placed red, 2 get placed blue if there are 5 and vice/versa. Oh yeah this will certainly cause uproar.
5) When someone leaves party, the next death on the opposing faction stays in suspended state until replacement arrives. Yes this generally means that the weakest member of the larger numbered team is most likely going to be placed into "timeout", and it could randomly be me in that instance, but if you couple this with allowing replacement members it should be short lived.
6) Punish habitual quitters. If you quit x number of times in y amount of timeframe, your rewards for pvp will be greatly diminished by the proportion of that formula for a time, allowing for the decay of that punishment. This can also include the possibility of your next win awarding you no count towards your daily if you are simply group hopping.
7) Have pre-defined party requirements. Seeing 3 CWs and 2 TRs in a group battling 4 GFs and a cleric is not necessarily how I would envision good pvp. This may result in popular classes having a longer wait time but really waiting out a 15 minute slaughterfest takes probably longer.
8) Hi/Low it. In any queue there are higher geared/ranked pvpers and lower ranked ones. Spread them out across the teams. Also, track the number of times someone pvps. This accounts for experience. Your gear may not be the greatest but if you have done this particular pvp match 300 times, you are likely going to bring a certain amount of tactical experience to the team that a well geared but inexperienced player might not have. Somewhere in these numbers is a way to comprise teams that are likely going to be able to compete in a manner that doesn't involve increased frustration, or at least spreads the frustration across the teams a little better.
There are so many ways to resolve or mitigate this issue. Some much better than others. The idea of matchmaking is great, but it does rely on enough people within each bracket in order to sustain the pvp quantities. In other words if you only have 1000 people in the upper brackets/gear score, perhaps only 10% of which are on at any one given time, of those maybe 10% of those are actively pvping at any given time in the day, your pool is only 10 people and you will simply be battling each other endlessly. This too has its drawbacks. Any solution will likely need to be multi-faceted in order to fix the pvp in this game.
every day dozens posts like this come up in the foruns...they just dont care...
a game that have pvp , but doesnt have any sort penalty for quitting like EVERY MMO in the market have, is just not taking the pvp side serious enough..
PvP in this game its getting <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> to a point where if you lose the FIRST mid fight, 2 of your team leaves, you are tied 2 minutes in the match?1 or 2 players leave.... and the list goes on and on..
The queues for pvp are getting longer and longer... why do you think that is happening? the game have lots of players.... but people simply are not queueing for pvp because its NOT fun to be in a match that never ends 5v5 because some players in this game think they are to good or to important to lose a match...
they dont want to improve, they dont want try to win, they just want to be carried...
But they will spit out the same lame *** excuses , like " they have higher gear score" or " my team is just bad" , when for no reason they quit after the first mid base fight, or our team is losing by 20 (!!!) points and they just leave.... have fun when noone queues for a pvp match... then what will you leave? dungeons?because you are to "cool" to wipe, right?
Its easy to blame the Devs for not having some sort of penalty ( 15 minutes penalty like every other game would work fine), but the real problem are the players...
The lack of any serious comunication about pvp from the responsables for the game (cryptic) doesnt help also...
Queueing for a pvp match doesnt garatee that you will always win....
- Sort matches by gearscore, so that both teams have similar equiment. At level 60, GS can make 10 imagined levels of difference.
- Add deathmatch and three-team games, as well as side objectives and environments we can affect and interact with. Traps for rogues, palisades for GF's, runes for CW's, etc. We've got the basis of 'control the map point' down pat and simply. Now to give more options and types.
- Allow groups that have uneven matchups to receive handicaps and point adjustments.
- Allow drop-in, drop-out matches, so that if you have two quit, two more in queue can join and receive a bonus.
- Place 'class-based' objectives. A shrine that the teams DC needs to activate, or you don't get an area heal. A portal that the CW can open, allowing for faster map travel. Things that add more reason to mix and match teams.
I do NOT see the real importance of leaderboards. Never have. While they allow for a certain level of competition, they also inspire just as as much hacking and cheating. Plus, they can actually dissuade many players, such as myself, because it puts more focus on K/D than on the win, something I find deplorable in modern games and one reason I've never enjoyed playing any of the COD's online.
"D*mn wizards," said Morik the Rogue.
Learn what a GWF and GF really are: The History of Fighters
I was in a team many times already that no one left but two of my members refused to fight and just stayed in camp. I wonder how would they fix such problem. :rolleyes:
As to the idea that the pvp quitting is indeed a community issue, I completely agree, but if the community cannot police itself (and frankly we simply cannot dictate good sportsmanship, proper "if you start the game, finish it" attitude and whatnot in an age of personal entitlement) and it is within the possibility of the game developers to take a few measures they should do so. It was not required that this game have a PvP element, but they chose to incorporate one, but sadly they laid a poor foundation and the house is crumbling. PvP in this game is the eyesore condemned building in an otherwise fine community.
We don't have graveyards in this game , in case you haven't noticed .
I apologize, but there is a graveyard in Neverwinter! Here: http://neverwinter.wikia.com/wiki/Neverdeath_Graveyard
Very true Bold hit the nail on the head