New crushing surge

kaylos29 · August 2013

I was playing around with it after the buff. It attacks about as fast as cleave now, hits a lot harder, and hits harder than a feated cleave. The heal is pretty meh, around 400. Still prefer cleave because of the frontal clone for PvE, but have been using it for PvP. Really nice for that.

trollgre · August 2013

single target still not good for pve and heal is still low
they should buff tanking and party buffs skills to make support/tank GF more useful at dungeons

kaylos29 · August 2013

It attacks with almost the exact same speed as cleave, and hits than harder than the feated cleave. How does is it it not good for single target? That alone makes it better for single target, the heal is just a small bonus.

j0shi82 · August 2013

For single target surge is now superior to Cleave. But you need pretty specific conditions like the Malabog dragon.

kaylos29 · August 2013

I find too many time I need the AoE from cleave in PvE, so I wouldn't imagine it would be that great except in specific 1 mob situations. In PvP though, the AoE damage form cleave rarely means any thing. That would make crushing surge a better option there.

trollgre · August 2013

if you kill mobs 1 by 1 at pve you will lose lots of life before you kill all mobs making cleave superior than crushing surge
at pvp it might be better but you need opponent that doesnt dodge or move for heal to proc and at pvp its not always 1 v 1 cleave is still my pick for pvp hit all if theyre together

its still a waste of sp for me, if you slot both cleave and CS you will lose debuffing/marking atwill

cross2112 · August 2013

Hmm... Never tried it sice after patch but if what youre saying is true then in pvp there should be no contest and surge should be bette(cleave aoe dont mean anything in pvp). Again i havent done any testing this is just assuming what OP said was true.

tang56 · August 2013

I'd be tempted to spend points speccing it if I was a human, but it's not worth it with other races.

kaylos29 · August 2013

cross2112 wrote: »

Hmm... Never tried it sice after patch but if what youre saying is true then in pvp there should be no contest and surge should be bette(cleave aoe dont mean anything in pvp). Again i havent done any testing this is just assuming what OP said was true.

My test wasn't exact. I put both on my bar and tested them on the practice dummies. They felt exactly the same. I though maybe the third attack was faster on cleave, but as I i did it over and over again, cleave had the same slight pause before the third attack that surge did. The I have played with it in PvP and have not had any issue landing the attacks from surge.

kaylos29 · August 2013

tang56 wrote: »

I'd be tempted to spend points speccing it if I was a human, but it's not worth it with other races.

Race shouldn't make a difference. Humans get 3 free feats, but the same number of powers. You don't need any feats for Crushing Surge since there aren't any feats exclusive for Surge.

cross2112 · August 2013

Anyone has any math on the damage comparisson with surge and cleave(feated) does it really do more damage than a feated cleave?

kaylos29 · August 2013

On my tooltips

Unfeated Cleave 893-1028
Crushing Surge 1191-1371

Testing on target dummies without debuffs bore out these damage ranges.

The feat adds 15% damage. That would put cleave at 1027-1182. Still less than crushing surge.

silveralucard · August 2013

i did some testing and 3rd hit is sligthy faster and also deals more damag, also AoE of the skill is better, crushing sure is good but in some conditions due to the extra heal, however cleave continue to be a little bit faster and you deal more damage to ADDs, as for pvp also i think cleav have better AoE, and reaction time is better with cleave, crushing surge last animation is what make this really slow in comparison

kaylos29 · August 2013

I thought the 3rd animation was faster as well. but when I paid attention closely, it really wasn't. Your character spins around and backhands the 3rd cleave hit, so it only feels faster since you character remains in motion instead of the animation puasing, but they take about the same time. It's a trick of the eye.

The third hit of Surge hits harder too. I could get no more than 1098 on my third hit with an unfeated cleave no debuff. I was able to get 1481 with Surge. Adding 15% to cleave still doesn't even get it close to the third hit of surge.

Edit:

Did some more testing on damage ranges on the target dummies, no debuffs. I do not have the feat, but 15% is pretty easy to extrapolate. I did not count how many attacks, I just did a ton looking for a high and low range.

Crushing Surge 1st and 2nd hits: 1038-1193 dmg
Crushing Surge 3rd hits: 1295-1486 dmg
24.65% increase in damage on 3rd hit.

UNFEATED
Cleave 1st and 2nd hits: 778-892 dmg
Cleave 3rd hit: 961-1093 dmg.
22.99% increase in damage on 3rd hit.

Extrapolated Feated Cleave (15% more damage on cleave)
1st and 2nd hits: 895-1026
3rd hits: 1105-1257

1st, 2nd, or 3rd, feated or not, Surge hits harder. The animation speed is debatable, as it is hard to time. But I contend they are nearly identical. If surge is slower, it is by the lowest of margins, even on the 3rd hit, as both cleave and Surge have a slight pause before attacking. With cleave though, your guy is spinning during the pause making it appear faster.

trollgre · August 2013

the only place you will use crushing is during pvp domination
for gaunttlrym aoe damage is still better
for pve you can use it if the boss doesnt summon any mobs (all summons mobs)

crushing is stronger even before but it is single target tried it when im lvlng my gf before so i can tell that its not good for pve

you need to hit mobs to gain threat when tanking so cleave will still be your main atwill during dungeon runs

if they make it AoE, it will be the best at-wills for any gf

kaylos29 · August 2013

It was pretty slow before making it harder to use in pvp. Cleave is definitely better for PvE as single target is rare.

cdrbrigade · August 2013

I don't know about you,but I'm super useful in dungeons...

New crushing surge

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