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Whats up with GF Knock Backs ?? SO many ?
pufy
Member Posts: 44 Arc User
Hi guy's
I saw some pvp matches..even on youtube.
It's about GF knock back Skills
I even Saw a Guard Knock like x 5 times to death a Player..even if the player dodged
So im asking : why so many Knock backs On Guardian ? like dunno nonstop knocking down a player..and him not having a chance..+ the Knock backs trow u far..and always ur down..and till u get up..another Knock Up comes..and if is not enough ANother one.
Umm
And Dont start with : dodge..etc..it helps only vs 1 knock
GF have like *infinite* knock back/down combo.
Im not asking to reduce the riduculous Damage that as a tanker he have..or the Block Guard line...Or why not the Dash....But umm at least do smthing about that knock back's...to many..and the CC duration to big.
I saw some pvp matches..even on youtube.
It's about GF knock back Skills
I even Saw a Guard Knock like x 5 times to death a Player..even if the player dodged
So im asking : why so many Knock backs On Guardian ? like dunno nonstop knocking down a player..and him not having a chance..+ the Knock backs trow u far..and always ur down..and till u get up..another Knock Up comes..and if is not enough ANother one.
Umm
And Dont start with : dodge..etc..it helps only vs 1 knock
GF have like *infinite* knock back/down combo.
Im not asking to reduce the riduculous Damage that as a tanker he have..or the Block Guard line...Or why not the Dash....But umm at least do smthing about that knock back's...to many..and the CC duration to big.
Post edited by Unknown User on
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Comments
We have three, two of which are encounters and one daily.
They can be dodged. Clerics and rogues can dodge them twice, wizards can dodge 4 times.
GF's are slow. You can easily dodge away from them (which is fast and provides CC immunity) and walk away.
Learn how to play.
The rest is as sfxer001 said. They are GF's, any class can handle them, and you are experiencing Learn-To-Play issues.
An example: do not dodge away from them, dodge through them and keep your counters, like your own knockbacks or CC immunity until after you dodges. Even Devoted Cleric has both a knockback (Sunburst), non-dodge CC-Immunity (Hammer of Fate) and melee counter (Chains of Blazing Light).
Basically, you can just kite GF's around until they have used up their encounters, while they are decimated by your CWs and TRs.
Experienced PvPers even know to let the GF close the distance and make them think they are open to being damaged, then suddenly dodge, making the GF use up their encounter against either the dodge or the immunity immediately after.
The issue isn't dodging an attack. The issue is that when the first knockback lands you die because there's no avoiding the rest of the combo (you're either in the air or prone). That said CW and GWF have similar combos although I'd say the GF's is the most effective.
It is also true that the GF's knockdown/stun combo is the most effective. However, unlike CW's and GWF's (and TR's and DC's), GF's do not possess the ability to escape a fight. We cannot quickly dodge out of a fight with immunity or sprint away. A GF either wins a fight and kills his opponent or he dies, or the opponent chooses to escape. A GF has a very hard time escaping combat that he doesn't want to participate in, so thank god we have the most effective combo.
The difference between good opponents and bad opponents to me, a GF, are those who dodge well and trick me into wasting my knockdowns. If you can trick me into wasting my stuns, you can choose to A) attempt to kill me or
Bad builds bad GF's will die if they fail to land one of their stuns. Good Builds / Good GF's don't depend on 1 trick pony strats as PvP is about survival and out playing your opponent.
Assuming you were aiming at me, I don't lose if I don't hit all my encounters with my burst build, because I built a balanced character and play it well.
Your build is survival based, yes, but your offensive comes from that set bonus and it will be nerfed hard. Then your survival will be "1 trick" and you won't be threatening enough to target until you're the last on the point. Once Stalwart's damage bonus is nerfed to what it should be and you have to rebalance your gear selection, then that survivability build will be better balanced compared with those who lean more towards offense.
Obviously, they don't have infinite knockdowns, or even 5
If they miss their combo, they are definitely not dead. Like dkcandy said, if you have junk gear or don't know what you're doing maybe.
They may be slow, but the Lunging Strike seems to reach a lot of farther then 30', so no people "walking away" from GF's is not happening.
Some of their at wills are much faster cast then alot of other classes at wills. I've hit people with Frontline Surge even though they've attacked first, and I"ve had the same happen to me when on other classes.
- JailBreak (in development)
In addition, dkcandy speaks mostly from a max-geared premade-vs-premade perspective, where survival builds and playstyles and low margins of error are by far the most important aspects. "Blowing your load" via using up all your Encounters quickly is not good for survivability in that context!
However, the above is not the experience of 99% of the playerbase. Burst damage and their playstyle tends to be highly effective in pugs much of the time. So, hardly surprising many players specialize in that direction.
GF's, fortunately, have the option of selecting which role on their team they want to play. They can focus on a survival build that isn't a good option to target first, and can keep a point contested while his or her team mates rejoin him, or a burst build with more potent offense that helps down the first target without relying on getting targeted and hit first.
The former is better played as a lone wolf, guaranteeing he will get hit and gain stacks of power, while the latter is better played in conjunction with team mates, protecting and punishing anyone who gets to close with high burst damage.
A good argument can be made, however, that the former Stalwart lone wolf playstyle is the better choice because of that overpowered set bonus giving him high damage and high survivability at the same time. The upcoming nerf will hopefully change that perception and put things back in balance.
Like I said, for your lonewolf playstyle that aims to maximize 1v1, your choices in gear and build have served you very well. In all of your posts you've consistently stated you aimed to emulate OP GWF survival builds for 1v1 dominance, and you achieved that.
But in a team environment (say a 3v3 or a 4v4 over the middle point), where I am not so concerned with my 1v1 viability and where your Stalwart survival build won't be targeted first so you don't gain stacks, a burst-based Timeless setup performs nicely in conjunction with team mates for a burst damage advantage. After the nerf, there will be even less reason to target Stalwart GF's first, and less reason to fear their full-stacked retaliation in 1v1, although they will still be tough to kill with all of that mitigation and regen. That's a better balance than what we have now.
I understand that you have spent way more Astral Diamonds than I have testing out GF builds and gear, and spent a lot of money to realize that Timeless wasn't the superior set for you, but that's just it. You found out it wasn't the superior set for you, for how you play, and for what you were trying to achieve, which is 1v1 dominance and survivability until a team mate can come to the rescue. That's one way to play, but not the only way.
With all that being said, understand that I have the utmost respect for you, dkcandy, and we all value your input. I just don't agree with everything you said because your build was built with a single-minded purpose that doesn't necessarily fit for everyone else.
If you think you and your team can kill me so easily please go watch me vs. Lemonade Stand. You'll notice that they would complain how hard it was to kill me with several players trying to kill me at once. I don't think we've ever played vs. each other and the more you reply to my post the more it sounds like you've never faced the Regen build GF. The damage is still enough to 1 rotation kill a player or stop the player from bursting or stop your team from bursting while I regen health then finish off your teammate.
Here is a link to one of my fights vs. Lemonade Stand:
http://www.twitch.tv/johnrainbow/c/2730370
Watch how much healing my build does and how hard it is to kill me with several DPS on me. This cast is from Lantis point of view TR on the other team.
The video demonstrates what you said. You are difficult to kill. Your entire team dies before you do, you guys don't do enough damage to kill Lemonade Stand before they kill your team off, and they handily win the game.
This thread is getting derailed.
Regen/Deflect > Burst GF.
Maybe not, maybe our server will be better off for it since that build is getting nerfed, but that build didn't win you that game. You lasted a little bit longer than your team mates did, which didn't even keep that game close. They dealt with you exactly how we would. Kill you last when there is no one left to interrupt a train of burst damage.
Sure you would.
Also the build is not getting nerfed, just a small amount of damage which is negligible and now I have better gear for the build and pushed from 9.6% Regen to over 11%. Even harder to kill with more deflect. :P