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The end of Tenebrous? (hopefully)
copticone
Member Posts: 0 Arc User
Last Chance: Nightmare Lockboxes
By Pinpointerror @ August 15, 2013 at 11:21am
One of those changes is the removal of Nightmare Lockboxes**. Don't fret! We'll have a new lockbox next week with new items.
Not exactly what I was hoping for, which is the removal or nerfing of Tenebrous enchants, but still a good step forward. Of course I am assuming that the new boxes won't include them or, even worse, other equally insane new enchant.
Probably our best chance now, or at least those that feel the same way as I do, to let Cryptic know that we do not want more Tenebrous or Tenebrous-like enchants in the new lockboxes.
Check out my personal Nerf Proof T2 Thaumaturge Build.
Post edited by copticone on
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They are going to have to nerf them or else the players that currently have them will get "grandfathered" in and will be OP...
Honestly the IDEA of tene is cool ,just the implementation of it needed DRASTIC work...
I could see them doing something in the future like tene, but the issue is that its based on HP... Thus prompting HP/regen stafcking making for an ultra OP combo. What they SHOULD have done was make it based on power or something... Or heck just a flat damage (like the armor enchant) It would still be good, just not synergize as well as HP/regen/tene...
I would much rather prefer something different/cool like enchants that have a chance to slow a target (offensive), enchants that have a chance t drop enemies armor (offensive NOT weapon), fun things over just pure stats...
Noone wants to keep stacking stats, its the fun things that make a big difference (like the current armor/weapon).
Also, has anyone else ever wondered why you can search for items with 3 enchant slots on the AH?
Obviously the complaints are not about the concept, it's the net result that is nuts.
To tone them down, they need to start by having them be usable in Defensive Slots, limiting the HP stacking. Second each one needs to have it's own separate cooldown and proc independently from one another and only one can proc at a time. So instead of doing 7k burst, it is spread out over a few seconds.
so go get some rank 10s if u miss out on g tene
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No one uses Tenebs in PvE. It is not how much damage Tenebs adds to your overall dps, it's how much burst. No 7x rank 10 enchant will give you 7k+ burst damage. That's like having an extra Encounter on a 20sec cd. And in PvP 20sec cd is nothing.
Those are new weapon/armor enchantments and one Utility. Nothing even close to stacking 7x Greater Tenebrous.
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?436421-New-Enchantments-(Feywild)&highlight=feywild
If you are referring to other enchantments, please let us know or provide a link.
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?p=5615371&viewfull=1#post5615371
Not sure I am following. I didn't say the lockboxes will stop dropping them. So yea there is still the issue of existing lockboxes that havent been opened yet.
GWFs are free Tenes are not (yeah yeah u can make zen blah blah). Lets face it Tenes are pay2win, thats why they are not getting nerfed, instead the worst class in the game is.
I wish they just put this class out its misery. We should start a petition for free Ioun Stone unslotting for GWFs so we can just delete them.
Or they can just create a recycling system for Tenebrous to exchange them for rank9/10 enchants. But just the fact that you say nerfing them is a bad idea because it would make some people angry, which I agree with, is proof enough that Cryptic is not interested in the longevity of this game. I know it is not fair, but I would choose angering some people now than continuously angering far more over the next few years.
No amount of arguing will ever persuade those people that, in a game that cost money to develop, money to support and money to staff, believe they should not be at any disadvantage to someone that spends money on the game. People complain about Tene's because they can't get them for free. Which of course you CAN: many guilds farmed CN 24/7 and made millions of AD. Of course, they arent the ones complaining either.
+1
copticone,
Look at what thexavory write, think about it, PWE need to think about making money so that they can sustain the game for free and for players like you isn't it. They never stop you to get it and instead provide you alternative ways to earn it.
You are making a HUGE assumption that the only people who are spending money are the Tenebrous crowd. You are also making the assumption that anyone with Tenebrous got it with cash. There are probably just as much AD that was gotten through exploits and probably twice as much being bought from 3rd parties which doesn't benefit PWE. Enchants like Perfect Lightning cost well over 10mil. You don't see me or anyone else complaining about them or ANY other rank10 enchant or armor enchant in the game. No one said to give opportunities for those "F2P" players to have easy access to Tenebrous. No one is talking about entitlement. So this logic is completely wrong.
The third assumption you are making is that people won't spend any money unless they receive something in game that puts them on a completely different level from others. PWE can make plenty of money without introducing Tenebrous enchants. It's the insane effect of the enchant that is the issue not the cost.
I think the MAIN issues is (and please read openly BEFORE instantly flaming) is that when you flat out NERF something players feel wronged... They feel like THEY specifically were hurt for almost no reason without warning and now its cost them time/money or both...
What the BETTER route is to do, is to diminish the part of the enchant that makes it a broken/OP enchant but GIVE the enchant something else where it can excel where it didnt before.
Basically a nerf and a buff at the same time. THAT makes players feel like (hey it is getting an erf, but now I can do X better than before so I guess its not THAT bad).
I would compare it to buying a house in 2007, the real estate market dropped a TON and house prices tanked. How bad did those people feel? HORRIBLE, because now they were under water...
Well what would happen if the bank allowed them to neg on their mortgage and refinance for the new mortgage amount? Well they probably wouldnt feel that bed even though their house is worth half of what it used to be...
See the analogy?
Apply the economic/relative perspective on Tene enchants...
Where is Tene OP? PVP. Where is it completely under powered? PVE...
So the solution, NERF it in PVP and BUFF it in PVE...
In order to do that you have to ask WHY is it OP in PVP and WHY is it UP in PVE?
Well in PVP burst is king, so a 20 second CD isnt a big deal, but in PVE ad 20 second CD IS a big deal...
In PVP doing 3% of YOUR HP damage to a SINGLE player * 7 enchants at ONCE is a BIG deal... IN PVE that isnt alot of damage.
In PVP having the enchants be able to proc all at once is a big deal, in PVE it makes no difference since they are prolonged fights anwyays.
So how do we address ALL of those things to even the scale...
1) Reduce the damage of each enchant PER TARGET, but allow it to hit MULTIPLE targets. (nerfs PVP buffs PVE)
2) Allow ONLY 1 tene to proc at once (Nerfs PVP/ not real change to PVE)
3) Drop the CD down but make it a HARD cd versus serverside (hurts PVP burst, buffs PVE damage)
These three changes will FIX the enchant to make it NOT clearly BiS in PVP BUT it makes them BETTER for PVE than they used to...
What will players then do with their current tene?
Well most players (like me) who stack 6-7 of them will probably offload SOME of them and stack only 4-5. Other builds, will realize they can benefit MUCH more from pure stat enchants like +185 or more to crit/arp or w.e...
As new enchants come out, and as people cant now get tene enchants, you will see both their popularity die out pretty fast and their use die out as more and more people gravitate away from them in favor of other new enchants.
If you dont change tene, if you make a new enchant to "out do" tene enchants THAT enchant is now WAY OP, compared to other enchants. If you keep tene as BiS PvP and now that you cannot get anymore... that will KILL the game because prices will rise EVEN MORE!
Supply - Demand ratio... Kill supply, demand rises, and prices rise = more players quite because they cant achieve that same "BiS" level...
Conclusion: Tene NEEDS to be fixed, NOT just nerfed but also buffed to avoid alot of drama/ragequits. New enchants need to come out to give more options rather than just "tene or stats" that also can provide different "ultiliy" or "damage"... You cant make those out power tene or you back to the SAME issue.
I totally understand. Eventhough none of my 60s are stacking them, I would totally agree that a complete removal of this enchant without any form of compensation/refund to the people that spent the AD on them is beyond unfair, regardless of how some of these people got the AD in the first place.
When I said they need to be "removed", I meant in their current form. What you proposed as a solution makes perfect sense. I also suggested some way of changing how they work. The bottom line is, which even sane tenebrous users like yourself would agree, the current mechanic of these enchants are way out of whack.
I really thin if you make only 1 proc at a time, and also make it so it can ONLY proc off actual attacks and not just "dots" that will fix ALOT of the issues.
Since I play a GTE user, I do have some perspective on what makes them OP. Outside players just see damage, but they dont see how to take further advantage of that damage.
I use greater plague fire enchant, not because the armor reduction (which is actually not that great when you knwo how it works) but because its DoTs the target for 3 seconds. Thats THREE more attacks tene can proc off of, and I cant tell you how many times I have 5 or more proc off of a small DoT tick like that. As some1 is kiting me or running away and BAM 5-6k damage and they die...
I used to run greater vorpal, but it didnt have the DoT so my tene damage was reduced alot... Since tene procs off the number of times you damage an opponent... not the actualy CAUSE, even if you can get a 1 damage tick going, that can proc tene and be abused (like it currently is).
more damage ticks (regardless of source) = on average more tene procs.
If you make it so it can only proc one at a time and ONLY off actual attacks, this will scale back the burst by itself. To further that effect, only 1 can proc at once (although in all honesty I think ALL of those changes would break the enchant and people would dump them and get pissed)
Which is why the CD needs to be brought back DOWN to about 8 seconds, and the damage slightly reduced per SINGLE target. etc... All the stuff above...