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My issues with TR's
irk2013
Member Posts: 241 Arc User
Ok now TR's are the most played class in this game there is no doubting that. In almost every single pvp match you will have 1 (most of the time 2) on each team.
Well the most played class is a good indicator of how powerful the class is as everyone flocks to those classes that are powerful in both pve and pvp.
Issues with the TR are as follows:
1: Their lashing blade can 1-shot you, and if it doesn't it takes near 80-90% of your life which all they need to do is throw knives at you to finish you off nothing you can do.
2: TR's ranged attacks are way to powerful they have 2 big ones that get used all the time Impact shot and Knives which both need to be tuned down as this class's defense is stealth and high single target dps output from lashing blade etc. They have no need for 2 very highly damaging ranged attacks.
3: Perma-stealth build needs to go the way of the dinosaur. I love how TR's defend this type of build when not a single game that I know of allows for 100% stealth uptime while being able to kill any target. If this is how the Devs wanted it, it was a short-sighted mechanic on their part that needs to be fixed.
I am not asking for lashing blade or any other dps to be touched but the ranged and perma-stealth mechanics of this class need tuned down.
They should NOT be able to put out more ranged damage than a CW or Cleric for that matter yet theirs are some of the BEST ranged damage output non-daily's in the game.
Well the most played class is a good indicator of how powerful the class is as everyone flocks to those classes that are powerful in both pve and pvp.
Issues with the TR are as follows:
1: Their lashing blade can 1-shot you, and if it doesn't it takes near 80-90% of your life which all they need to do is throw knives at you to finish you off nothing you can do.
2: TR's ranged attacks are way to powerful they have 2 big ones that get used all the time Impact shot and Knives which both need to be tuned down as this class's defense is stealth and high single target dps output from lashing blade etc. They have no need for 2 very highly damaging ranged attacks.
3: Perma-stealth build needs to go the way of the dinosaur. I love how TR's defend this type of build when not a single game that I know of allows for 100% stealth uptime while being able to kill any target. If this is how the Devs wanted it, it was a short-sighted mechanic on their part that needs to be fixed.
I am not asking for lashing blade or any other dps to be touched but the ranged and perma-stealth mechanics of this class need tuned down.
They should NOT be able to put out more ranged damage than a CW or Cleric for that matter yet theirs are some of the BEST ranged damage output non-daily's in the game.
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And of course, as "single-target DPS glass cannons", they're always going to excel in PvP, where things like 'aggro control' and 'mass low-level damage mitigation' are unimportant. PvP is all about spike damage omg omg, and that's what TRs do.
They just can't hold points worth a ****, which luckily is what actually wins matches. Translation: yes, PvP is terrible ill-conceived, but it could be worse. Imagine pure deathmatch.
Answers:
1-From the moment that the player proposes a game environment (PvE or PvP) he has to be aware of their Role. In the case cited above, the defense (encants in general) serves to do just that, to avoid one shot, not counting the endless ways to not only be killed with LB, as well as also investment in HP., Not to mention the specific powers in each class. So yes PvP is increasingly competitive, everyone needs to adapt to what I call bad-math (worse), because I simply decided to play pvp, but that's me, I do not know how people you.
2- Impact-shot break stealth, and a maximum of 4 loads are used, and not all the time like you said. The knives are already nerfed, charges of 12, 8 charges. I never heard talk of a major damage (ranged) than the famous "ice knife" of CW.Impact shot after use, it takes a long time (depending on your build) to be used again.
3- For a rogue there is only one way not to be killed ... STEALTH, and to stay all the time in stealth, must give up two spots enconters that hardly give any harm, even in the same build that TR defend, not LB is used. A player playing the right way with a TR, know how to choose who will be your target (usually the most vulnerable) to have a chance to appear and really finish your target is not as simple as you think.
As the distance from the current permanent, this will change once the new update come, I believe that when taking 4 knives at will in question, the rogue need or appear to finalize a target, or terminate the target at close range. They will fix it now.
In your last comment, I think you were unhappy, or do not really know how to play with the ranged classes of neverwinter.
My conclusion: Were you nervous because it took like a dog in a Random BG? Look for a team, make a pre-made, yes and give back to comment on Bg's in this forum. We should pay attention to pug is pug, and pre-made is pre-made.
And a tip, its ROLE learn how it works, and weep no more. Hug far!
If you don't believe me, roll up a TR and play one. You will see stealth is all about survivability.
Another person who can't play the game QQ about TRs. LOL learn how to play the game. Its a better investment of your time or play another game FFS.
I do doubt that, since we don't have any metrics to prove that.
Well no, not necessarily. Anyone who wants to do max single target DPS is going to chose the class whose entire purpose is high single target damage. That they do it while look cool doesn't hurt.
By which you mean your personal complaints, which will now be answered in detail by someone who has leveled multiple classes to 60.
Two statements here, and ony one is true/accurate. Yes, Lashing Blade can one-shot you - this is true. So can Ice Knife. So can some of the DC skills if you spec for it. GF's and GWF's can also get lucky crits and one-shot. For Lashing Blade to one-shot you, the TR needs to be in stealth and using a daily - having vorpals helps a lot.
The part that is inaccurate is that there is nothing you can do. This is false. If you don't play well and just stand there when you're playing a squishy class then you're toast. But any class can take you out if you're that unskilled. Presuming a modicum of proficiency at playing whatever class you're playing, use your movement and defensive skills whatever they are. Lashing Blades can be dodged and blocked.
Yes, they do have a need for solid ranged attacks. TR's are very squishy, so when out of stealth they are very easily killed. Standing in melee range and going toe-to-toe with anyone when out of stealth is suicide for most TR's.
Perma-stealth requires that a TR take skills that decrease their DPS and play a very specific way. It is also very easily countered by ANY other class in PvP. Even some of the PvE enemies can see through stealth.
That's mighty nice of you to ask for such limited nerfs to the core mechanics of another class.
But no, they don't need to be nerfed any further. Ranged is already getting cut in the next patch as is Lurker's Assault. That makes four major TR skills significantly nerfed that don't need to be. They are largely a problem for people in PvP who don't seem to know any other strategy than "Hey, come back here and fight the way I want you to since that gives me the advantage!"
Hmmm, let's think about this one. The TR currently gets twelve shots and then they need to recharge. How many charges on Magic Missile or Brand of the Sun?
Now, here's why this will never change:
PWE/Cryptic is a business. They make money buy selling items like keys to open Nightmare Lockboxes. Do you really think they're going to nerf their biggest money maker? There are people who have spent (literally) thousands of dollars on this game for one character! Who is PWE going to pay attention to? The lowly freebie player? Or the guy who breaks out their wallet and forks over cash.
Join Essence of Aggression: PVP-ing Hard Since Beta!
The most Ive done with LB in PvP is about 12k. I hit fairly hard, but even then, I have no stealth and I cant use that again for a while.
IMO, stealth sucks. Once youre hit in stealth, the bar like immediately drops and you can be seen, allowing you to be hit again. Plus, you can be seen while in stealth without taking damage. Its only good for a few Cloud of Steels followed by an Impact or a LB. (Personally, I think Impact should have a slight damage nerf, along with a bunch of other game changes but thats just me).
Permastealth requires giving up encounters for Shadow Strike, which does like 4k MAX, as well as needing Bait and Switch, which basically sucks in PvP unless your enemys stupid.
The better geared you are, the better you are in PvP. Im at 10.6k and I dominate 90% of people below 12k GS. Above that, its like a 50/50 depending on how good of a player they are.
I think Impact Shot needs a slight damage nerf, and MAYBEEEE stealth should have a max duration.
EDIT: I have a shirt that says "The Beatings Will Continue Until Morale Improves". ^^^^^^
And for such and such reasons, TR's will constantly get nerfed to the ground until they become unplayable or unwanted.
I must agree with this guy, rogues are ment to be glass-cannons, not OMG-LETS-KILL-EEVERYTHING-FROM-STEALTH.
Stealth is tactical skill, to enable you open wherever you wish on battlefield, or temporary cloak for re-engaging/repostioning.
Now its widely abused to increase surivability to extreme levels.
ItC = daily, no more at-wills from stealth, damage isnt hurt and outliving GF nonsence is gone, its win-win.
Either the GF is <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> and/or the TR is a god.
First, TR's are glass cannons or at least plastic guns. Without stealth, they can't stay in the fight. This would be fine if they were CW's able to blast everything from as distance of DC's with their high survivability, but since the TR's role is to put out single-target DPS in melee range it's kind of a problem. Take away stealth without giving other attributes to compensate (such as vastly improved dodging/deflection) and you break the class.
Second, removing the ability to do damage from stealth WILL vastly decrease the damage and break the class. So when you say "damage isn't hurt" I will respectfully suggest that you familiarize yourself with playing a TR at any level but particularly at 60.
Third, the two characters I play the most are my GF and my TR. There are very few circumstances in which my TR will outlive any decently played GF, so either you're grouping with really bad GF's or people are trying to do silly things like play GF's as TR's. Which I suppose would make them very bad GF's.
The sad thing is the average TR wont have the insanely OP Greater Vorpal, rank 10 enchants and/or Tenebs, which is what is causing majority of the problems.
So can a TR one shot you using several combined things LA+LB+Stealth, yes. Can LA+LB+Stealth be easily dodged, yes every class except GWFs can mitigate the damage completely. Its not like you dont know a TR is coming unless they are behind you and they stealth. Stealth lasts for 5 seconds up to 15 with LA without using shadow strike(<font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> dps and tells your target you are there get ready to dodge) and Bait and Switch(0 dps and drops a dummy telling your target you are there get ready to dodge).
OK, it WILL reduce damage, but i think there is a reserve in your damage, even when reduced a bit TR always shine at top ranks of damage.
Insta remove of stealth should ofc be balanced with faster regen, but it is only fair of all actions to break stealth.
Did you just turn 60?
Because whether you just turned 60 or you are completely clueless about how to defend your class vs a TR. Heck, you don't even know how hard is to keep the perma TR stealthed 100% of the time nor acknowledged of how much damage a CW can do compared to TR's "ranged big ones" like you mentioned.
Or maybe you are neither of these and you are just another internet troll.
Unless you're suggesting a massive boost in regeneration to compensate for the massive amount of damage that squishy TR's will take by losing stealth, this just doesn't work. Part of the reason TR's are tops in damage is because they can fight in stealth and take less damage. Otherwise they would spend a lot of time running around waiting for heals and potion cooldowns, which would negatively impact everyone. TR's are designed to do single-target damage, and they excel at this. One of the many drawbacks is that they don't have any means of negating damage other than being in stealth or manually dodging.
I think that everyone here understands all of the PvP complaints about TR's in stealth, mostly from people who don't play TR's and know how it works and/or haven't seen/learned any of the numerous ways to counter it. But so far none of these suggestions are at all workable without massive changes to the game.