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TR's, teach the GWF community!
tarmalen
Member Posts: 1,020 Bounty Hunter
TRs cried so hard that they dodged a nerf bat on a couple of skills.
Too bad GWFs don't have the amount of players that the TR community does or they wouldn't be getting hit in the face.
I understand you wanting to turn one of our skills (slam) into a utility but unless you remove the target cap then you just made it a useless skill.
Why are you dropping survivability to all GWFs instead of just toning down the Sentinel spec?
Why must you go and drop deflection bonus in Bravery? You are already dropping it for the Sent spec in Master of Arms.
So why is the Instigator and Destroyer spec also having to suffer because of PVP whines about the SENTINEL spec?
Too bad GWFs don't have the amount of players that the TR community does or they wouldn't be getting hit in the face.
I understand you wanting to turn one of our skills (slam) into a utility but unless you remove the target cap then you just made it a useless skill.
Why are you dropping survivability to all GWFs instead of just toning down the Sentinel spec?
Why must you go and drop deflection bonus in Bravery? You are already dropping it for the Sent spec in Master of Arms.
So why is the Instigator and Destroyer spec also having to suffer because of PVP whines about the SENTINEL spec?
Post edited by tarmalen on
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though I dont see any reasoning to decrease thier deflection abilities and feats.
Your unstoppable makes you immortal. That's why they had to tune down some of the deflect bonuses you get from the class features.
As the unstoppable already gives you a nice chunk of damage resist and you can spam it most of the time.
Well I guess the Dev's found that Slam was silly on even a single target so they nerfed it to a utility daily instead of damage daily. Well Mages just easily took our spot as Trash DPS killers....
In a dungeon run slam was usually my #2 damaging ability. Now I don't see a point of it being on my bar.
Well maybe with all the PVP nerfs they will finally work on our PVE viability.... Doubtful but one can hope right?
First of all, the original planned Rogue nerfs would have destroyed the class. They were radically changing everything that made Rogues, Rogues. Stealth was completely being destroyed, which is what the Rogue class was based on.
The upcoming GWF nerf is nowhere near as severe as the Rogue nerfs, even after they changed the original nerf. The upcoming changed Rogue nerf is still a lot more harsh than this GWF nerf. They are decreasing our most used Daily by over 50% (it's now 25% damage increase, down from 60%). They are reducing our At-Will Cloud of Steel by 4, which is now going to be 8 daggers, down from 12. That's a 33% decrease to an At-Will. They're also changing / nerfing another of our most-used At-Will in Duelist's Flurry (again), so that it no longer keeps a constant stack of bleed damage and will now be even more random than before. They didn't touch any GWF At-Will.
Oh yeah, and this will be the 2nd time they nerfed Rogues hard. The first nerf, they destroyed another Daily of ours by nerfing it 60%. They also harshly nerfed Duelist's Flurry (the first time) and a Feat that went with it. That resulted in 20-25% overall decrease in our PvE damage.
Now do you understand why Rogues and even non-Rogues (who weren't trolling or Rogue haters) were all up in arms about Cryptic overnerfing the class? It was an insane nerf that would have completely destroyed the class. It wasn't comparable to this GWF nerf at all. The upcoming GWF nerf is needed. Heck, more GWF nerf is needed...
What they should do is nerf the amount of Determination gained. Currently, GWFs get Determination way too fast, which allows them to spam Unstoppable. They need to nerf Unstoppable so it gives 15-25% damage reduction, instead of the current 25-50%. It's ridiculous how a Tab skill that can be spammed gives 50% damage reduction, complete CC immunity, heals for 5% HP, gives temporary HP, AND lasts for over 8 seconds.
Combined with Regen gear, Defense and Deflect gear, HP gear, spec'd for even more Defense and Deflect, GWFs are near invincible. GWFs can get up to 40%+ Deflect AND damage reduction BEFORE they spam Unstoppable. With Unstoppable, they can get 90-95% damage reduction on top of their insane amount of Deflect (highest of any class by far). They can also get over 40k HP if geared up, which is more than even GFs can get.
IMO nerfing Slam is dumb. Slam didn't need to be nerfed except for maybe its duration. It doesn't do too much damage. This is the only nerf I think GWF doesn't need. Nerfing Deflect is a good first step, but it's not what is making GWFs so completely OP.
That is pure hyperbole.
Every calculation and PTR report that I saw said that TRs would still be the best single target DPS class, and as such would still be wanted for soloing the boss in dungeons.
Given that the GWF is not wanted in Dungeons anyway, this nerf is correspondingly more worrying.
Especially since it is only the Sentinel line that is causing issues in PvP, why don't they just change the sentinel feat set-up rather than nerfing a class that is barely tolerated (if that) in PvE anyway?
LOL show me the supposed "every calculation and PTR report" that you saw.
I'll show you actual testing done and reports of Rogues being completely gutted by the original nerfs:
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?420191-Test-Shard-vs-Live-Shard-Numbers
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?295232-Banelorne-s-Stealth-Based-Executioner-TR-Build&p=5270021#post5270021
Thank you for managing to shoot yourself in the foot so effectively since in all those threads the TRs are still regarded as the best single target class as I said.
e.g.
where he recognizes this.
If you aren't prepared to properly read even the first post of a thread WHICH YOU JUST QUOTED AS EVIDENCE, then your 'opinion' is not really of much significance.
Of course the ONLY pure single target damage class, is still the best in single target damage. Talking about shooting ones self in the foot..
Which was my reasoning why even after the nerf they would still have been wanted in dungeons ...
Want to try to shoot your other foot too?
So far all you have done is prove my point...
First off - i don't even play the GWF (i main as GF) so correct me where im wrong but:
The problem with the GWF - the way i see it - is that it lacks a strong role in pve. With the current content an off tank just isn't required. Now, if you compare say a TR to a GWF - the main reason why TR is a lot better is the utility it has for making many runs faster and easier with their stealth runs. Sure, they burn bosses faster with their single target focus but i wouldn't mind having the boss burn a bit slower either. So, to make GWF-s more unique and welcome in PvE utility is the key. Anyone can do damage, you need to bring something onto the table besides that. With a good GF off tanking just isn't it, so if it was up to me i would give you guys MORE unique buffs/debuffs that no one else has but would be gagging for.
For someone who doesn't play a GWF you seem to have a decent idea of the issues they are facing
But the problem is that these changes will cause a significant DPS and Defense loss and the gain in utility (IMO) is simply not enough to even compensate for the nerfs, let alone stop people wanting a group of 1 DC 1/2 TR 1/2/3 CW. Even if they removed all the nerfs and just left in the minor buffs this still wouldn't be enough.
Right now groups want a DC for healing and mitigation, a TR for killing the boss quickly and as many CWs as you can for crowd control and pushing mobs off ledges. So long as you can instant kill mobs, GWF AOE damage is never going to be able to compete.