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Throw daggers / stealth
sxarr
Member Posts: 29 Arc User
I think rogues should break stealth while throwing daggers
its kinda silly they can damage you while not revealing themselfs
what do you guys think?
its kinda silly they can damage you while not revealing themselfs
what do you guys think?
MaxPower
Post edited by sxarr on
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Please explain in detail why you believe it is silly.
riiiiiiiiiggggghhhhhhtttttt
Its called trajectory.
I think rogues have been nerfed enough. Not that I play a rogue and never will.
Beat me to it -- it's not hard to tell which direction projectiles are coming from in this game, just have to look around quickly.
Kaylee Krankenwagen, level 60 GF | Tavandruil Wayfinder, level 49 GWF | Aldith Langley, level 51 HR
Though if you want to speak unrealistic, how about going into stealth when you are surrounded by five or six enemies? Yep, no problem there. Happens all the time in real life, too. Hehe.
Ok let's put it this way. You are walking in a dark alley and a rogue positioned himself above the rooftops of those abandoned houses. How would you know where he is then? When you don't even have time to look up
And yea, like one of the above mentioned, it's one of those threads again...
it doesnt really need a change at all.
They could NOT just put this in and call it a day. It would ruin the class without actually reworking many of the rogue abilities. The reason is because the rogue receives a damage bonus while being in stealth and many of the rogue abilities that regain action points require that the rogue attack from stealth to get the bonus.
So if they just implemented your suggestion it would make many of the rogue abilities absolutely useless. It would require a complete over-haul of the class powers. I highly doubt that is what Cryptic wants to do just to make some bad pvpers happy.
Rogues are easy to kill. If you can't kill him/her, then your doing it wrong.
Devs have done everything right to all classes.
Bad PVPers? No need to refer to yourself here.
Oh, and try to trace the source of invisible knife while the rogue is on a pillar or a ledge.
If you've played against skilled end game rogues you know how stupid stealth becomes. 8k GS rogues who need 2-3 sec to do a Lashing isn't even a challenge.
Since there is a lot of talk about one shotting from stealth isn't a problem I found a video: http://www.twitch.tv/doaxira/c/2692445
Please fast forward to the time 17:20. A rogue does 42378 lashing from stealth - which was entered from combat. So you skilled people out there. What should the CW done to avoid that, besides staying at the spawn point or reroll as a GWF/GF?
Epic fail of combat implementation in PVP.
That video very clearly shows the real probem. The TR was clearly fully tenebbed up so a huge portion of his damage came from them, plus anyone who can afford to be decked out in them probably also has a perfect vorpal on his weapon, so another massive bonus. His lashing probably only did 20k on its own. And if you keep watching the vid, the dead guy respawns and comes back to the fight just as his teammate kills the TR, so hardly invincible. You'll also notice everyone was tennebbed in this game so it balanced out (even the dead CW). It would be a nightmare to be in this fight if you were just normally geared with 7s.
You can't judge if skills (for any class) are OP unless you know how people are geared. Just crying because you get killed a lot means nothing.
The Lashing Blade for 42387 damage isn't affected by any teneb in this case since it's a single hit which kills the target. Even if the rogue has a perfect vorpal the base damage of the hit is 28258 and would have killed the CW in any case. The outcome of this stealth attack would be a dead CW no matter how it's looked upon where the CW can't do anything about it, skilled or not.
If the base damage was 28000 you can't say oh that would kill him anyway so it's the same as 42000. You're either complaining about 42000 or not.
So in this case, if the rogue would have damaged the CW for 10 k, there would also maybe been a few teneb popping up at the side. But the CW died from the main attack so the teneb never procced.
No CW has 28k HP so this isn’t a discussion about vorpals. Best case = dead CW. Worst case = dead CW.
Not sure why this is nonsense?
Changed my response because I wasn't sure if tenebs were parallel or not (and to sound less ******y).
The reason 28k makes it a nonsense argument is that even if you nerfed lashing then do you think with all the top enchants etc it wouldn't still be over 28k? So then what difference does it make if it's 42k? You can't claim the problem is huge (42k) damage and then make it irrelevant in the same breath. That's what's nonsense.
What you're really saying is that the top single dps class, if he's kitted out in millions of ADs worth of BiS gear and enchants can one shot the weakest defensive class (after which he can be easily killed since he's the second weakest defensive class). That's just the way it works, especially in a poorly thought out pvp game (see DC for example of devs not really thinking it through).
In that vid, he killed the CW, then he got killed, 50 points to each team and the cap stayed in the same hands, so where's the advantage to the TR?
This topic is about doing damage from stealth. Not Lashing Blade. If the rogue needs higher damage and more ninja rolls it's fine by me. It really is!
One shotting from stealth where the opponent can't do anything to prevent it? That, my friend, is nonsense.
No, the pointing at 42000 as some big indicator of OPness is what's nonsense, which you brought up. Look at this vid to prove my point... And it proves nothing but is more impressive number. Because if you just said "Oh look 28000 damage and I'm dead that's not fair" then no one would take a blind bit of notice. Even if he did 100k of damage it wouldn't make a difference to a CW, they're dead at 25k. And to bring it down to that low requires a complete change of mechanic for the class. No 15% first strike, not backstab 25% crit severity and a bunch of other feats and powers. That's what the class is, hitting from stealth. They're going to get bonuses to do that and even if you lessen it, CWs are still going to get squished.
If people are combining a bunch of feats to be able to do big damage against a guy in a dress only relevant in pvp with super-geared toons, that's not worth changing the whole rest of the way the class works in the rest of the game where the issue never comes up.
btw, none of the classes are properly designed for pvp, not just TRs.
I will agree that lashing blade rogues are really not showing their skill as a pvper at all. It is "too easy" in my opinion. As a rogue I seriously don't use lashing blade at all. I have other methods and strategy that work "better" in my opinion. A more consistent strategy but I digress.
You have to keep in mind that lashing blade has a chance of failing doing ZERO dmg. Not half, not a quarter, ZERO. So if you need a strategy to avoid a rogue. NEVER STOP MOVING. You stop moving to stand there waiting and a rogue in stealth will pick you off with a clean lashing blade from behind. Not only does he get a bonus for being in stealth but coming up behind you also adds additional dmg. If you keep moving not only does it make it harder for the rogue to get on your six but there is a chance that lashing blade will miss completely. I know this method works because I use it against rogues all the time. Now I am not going to promise you that this tactic will always work, but you are better off moving than standing still waiting for it to happen.
Yep. And it makes fighting those rogues that solely rely on Lashing Blade one of the easiest things to beat.
the best way to counter lashing are having both high HP 30k+ 40%+defense and high deflect but only tanks can have that
Silly comment. No they can't have stealth up constantly. You are not really paying attention to the SAME rogue and are confusing your fights with multiple rogues. Not only that but cloud of steel has a massively long cool down and it is tricky to use to get it's full benefit. You probably see it a lot because rogues use it to break your guard meter. Without this ability rogues would have a very hard time fighting a GF but that is probably how you want it anyways. No one actually wants to learn how to cope with a class they would just rather the Devs screw up the class and make it a cake walk to fight against instead.
Rogues are not battled in pvp, they are battled on the forums by whiny complainers who really shouldn't be pvping. They should stick to something a little more their speed, maybe hello kitty adventures? I dunno..
I cannot throw fireballs, and I play a Control Wizard.
Soon, hopefully!
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there is no game in the world where a player can hit you without being seen...
i mean hit you and then after a while go to stealth again ok but deal around 10k dmg without even being seen is hilarious.
unless we must all do rogues for pvp or have 50% dmg resistance
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