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Nub GWF Questions (at wills and encounters)
alassael
Member Posts: 19 Arc User
I am leveling my first GWF and am struggling to find encounters combinations and at-wills that perform well under a combination of conditions in group PvE (dungeons and skirmishes).
At-wills:
Is there any reason, whatsoever, to slot Sure Strike (SS) over Weapon Master’s Strike (WMS) and/or Wicked Strike (WS)? And, is there any reason to ever use Reaping Strike (RS) ever again? Does anyone else feel gimped when using WMS/WS against a dungeon boss?
Encounters:
Which utility abilities are worth slotting over damage dealing abilities? Which utility abilities are worthless? Also, what abilities are over-rated? From what I have read, Flourish is near the top of the over-rated encounter list. Can you list the encounters you slot for trash, boss fights, leveling, and PvP (and perhaps variations due to pug vs guild runs)?
Other specific questions:
At-wills:
Is there any reason, whatsoever, to slot Sure Strike (SS) over Weapon Master’s Strike (WMS) and/or Wicked Strike (WS)? And, is there any reason to ever use Reaping Strike (RS) ever again? Does anyone else feel gimped when using WMS/WS against a dungeon boss?
Encounters:
Which utility abilities are worth slotting over damage dealing abilities? Which utility abilities are worthless? Also, what abilities are over-rated? From what I have read, Flourish is near the top of the over-rated encounter list. Can you list the encounters you slot for trash, boss fights, leveling, and PvP (and perhaps variations due to pug vs guild runs)?
Other specific questions:
- Roar usage: This ability seems counter intuitive. You want mobs grouped up so you can AoE them down. But this knocks them away from you (which is great if you are about to die or need to interrupt). For the people who love Roar, do you slot Come and Get It to round mobs up after using Roar?
- Mobility: Does anyone slot mighty leap or punishing charge for mobility or is the loss of damage (or other utility) too great?
- Not So Fast: Does anyone use this ability in dungeons once you get past level 30?
- Which encounter abilities are a total waste of space and should never be considered ever?
Tip of the Day: The forums are not for guides or tips or learning how to play. They are here for people to whine until something gets nerfed or buffed.
Post edited by alassael on
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Comments
2. Reaping Strike was, and still is, totally worthless. Don't waste any points in it. WMS/WS combo is the way to go on a boss. If you have the right gear, you'll be topping the DPS chart by the end of the run.
3. Flourish is most certainly not overrated. You can break enemy attacks, including bosses with it, and it has distance, meaning in PvP, for example, you can actually help yourself catch up to an opponent by getting in enough range to use it, and then charging the rest of the distance.
4. Come and Get It sucks, you'll see few GWFs using it for a reason. Roar may knock, but it's little bitty knock can be used to push enemies off of ledges (great during Spellplague), as well as helping to corral enemies for singularity to some extent. The most important thing is the action point and determination gain. If you've got your feats right, you'll be dropping a daily about once every 20 seconds in a dungeon.
5. No one uses Punishing Charge. It's still one of the most pathetic GWF skills, and likely the worst power in the entire game. Don't bother. Mighty Leap, slot it to raise the level of your powers, but only really use it if you have the feats stacked. Otherwise, it's best used for jumping into an enemy spawn camp if they start to sit there.
6. I've seen a few 60 GWFs using Not So Fast, but it's because they've increased their feats to accommodate it. I fully increased it, just so I could raise my powers overall. It's useful.
7. I won't reveal my personal secrets to you, I use my own build.
reaping strike actually does slighty more damage on its own that wicked however b/c of all the passives that proc on each attack wicked is much better. steel blitz, weapon master, destroyer all get big increases with wicked over reaping. It's fun to see huge numbers with reaping but yeah at least for me it gets really annoying having to hold it down and then watching all mobs run out of damage radius =/
I would never use flourish in a dungeon personally, great for PvP but there are much better things to slot in PvE. I used IBS roar and battle fury when my GWF was destroyer. I have him specced 100% for PvP now though.
We are definitely dominating, and we are always about to win.
Out of curiosity I dug up the old Master Builds List (now archived ☹) and went through and listed their recommended encounters and at-wills. There were a few trends that were interesting, but not surprising either.
Thorin’s Guide (Destroyer)
At Wills: SS,WMS
Encounters: Flourish, IBS, and Daring Shout (replace with Takedown for PvP)
ExtinctioN’s Guide (Instigator)
At Wills: WMS,WS
Encounters: Not So Fast, IBS, Optional (flourish, mighty leap, roar, battle fury)
Kartofflen’s Guide (Destroyer)
At Wills: SS, WMS
Encounters: Roar, Flourish, IBS
Chainer88 PvP Guide (Mix)
At Wills: SS, WMS
Encounters (for PvP): Flourish, Takedown, IBS
Forsakenlich1’s Guide (Destroyer)
At Wills: WMS, WS
Encounters (for dungeons): Roar, IBS, Punishing Charge
Ironwill’s PvE Guide (Instigator)
At Wills: WMS, WS
Encounters: Not So Fast, IBS, Optional (Roar, flourish, Daring Shout, Mighty Leap, Come and Get it, Restoring Strike, Punishing Charge…pretty much listed everything except Takedown)
Akfortyseven’s PvE Guide (Destroyer)
At Wills: WMS, SS
Encounter: Flourish, IBS, Restoring Strike
These guides have been around for a while. I cannot vouch for any of them, but the common trends are interesting. The following can be said.
1. Everyone uses WMS (there were no exceptions).
2. Everyone used IBS
3. Takedown is popular for PvP
That said, I don't know why people like to follow guides as they are leveling up. For example, what I mentioned above about Come and Get it, is my OWN opinion. In fact I would advise you to put points in it and try it.
This should be your opportunity to experience as much as you can what your class can do. If you follow someone's guide that says Only do this, and never use that. How do you know if that was just an opinion or that the person even knows what he's talking about? Just because someone starts a thread and calls it a "Guide" doesn't mean that everything in there should be taken as facts. It's someone opinion based on THEIR experience. You may very well be using the same spec as described in someone guide here, when you hit 60. But at least you are doing so because you KNOW it is the best route for your playstyle, because you "experienced" this Power and that Power and made your own decision whether they are useful or not, not because that person thread has 100k views.
You will miss out on so many aspects of the class if you just blindly follow someone's advice this early on. Dont worry on getting a build right, NO ONE gets it right from the first time, and everyone respecs at 60 at least a handful of time, or at least those that are serious about their characters.
roar also stuns for that brief second it pushes. and is Come and Get It the one that pulls things to you? that is not worthless, its great against rogues.
No builds you posted listed battle fury, but I would give it a try, I liked it. Come and get it just does no damage and only buffs the damage of one attack, you're better off just asking the CW's to pop shield early in the singularity so that the mobs re group up by the end. I think IBS and Roar and in 90% of DPS GWF builds for PvE, last encounter is optional and I personally like battle fury for more daily uptime. Also as destroyer you get +25% power while slam is active (well if you take that feat, which you should) and with battle fury I can have slam up almost constantly since it lasts so long.
We are definitely dominating, and we are always about to win.
Come and Get It will hardly ever gather mobs scattered by Shield Pulse. Its effective radius is extremely limited. At end game, when you are running with half decent CWs, they know how and when to use shield pulse.
You would slot CaGi instead of a stun or a hard hitting 3rd encounter? All for a rogue? I never had an issue with rogues, especially when I can stunlock 3-shot them.
I found that I can tank and keep aggro much better as a Destroyer than a Sentinel. Pulling mobs just a few feet away from you for a split second followed by your hardest hitting encounter is still nowhere near constant threat generated from high overall dps.
I understand what you are saying. It is very valuable to try things out. But sometimes when we try something and realize it just isn't working, is it because we are misunderstanding it or using it incorrectly. Take for example Weapon Master's Strike. The ability debuffs your target(s). But if I missed this critical information, I may use it after I use encounter attacks. Then I wonder why my dps isn't so great. So sometimes I like to bounce things on the forums to see where people's opinions lie. I still try things out for myself, but at the same time I like to minimize the cost and time.
Also, I prefer to play in a style that is fairly recognized as effective rather than learn bad habits from the start.
That's the whole point. You shouldnt stick to a playstyle while leveling up. You should experiment with everything. The leveling content is easy enough to complete with ANY paragon tree. How do you know what playstyle is best for you if you dont try everything and anything.
Cost of a Cat/stone (650-900k). Cost of rank6-7 enchants (400-1mil). Cost of weapon/armor enchants (400k-15mil). Cost of T2 set (150-1.5mil). Initial investments in professions (500k-5mil). And you would rather just follow blindly what someone says, so you can save 100k on a respec token. You should easily have 50-60k AD by the time your reach 60. Another 40k is like 40cents. I dont think that would even put a dent in a teenager's pocket, not that you even need to spend $$ to get the 100k.
I am not suggesting no to "Read" guides or specs. I am not saying not to take ideas from experienced players. But find out for yourself why A is better than B. What really makes this Encounter useful and that one useless. When someone asks you why aren't you using X Power? Your answer should be because I tried it and I found it not really useful or fitting my playstyle, not because Xxxx@L33t said so.
You caught my post before I re-phrased it. /sigh
That is awesome advice. Thank you.
I totally understand. Like I said, the forum is a great tool to get your questions answered, to start a discussion/theocrafting thread, or to pick up on new tips and such. But not everything on the forum is factual or up to date accurate. That's why you still see people debating the effectiveness or the uselessness of certain Power/Feats. How do you judge what is fairly recognized as effective in a game that's barely 3 months old, littered with bugged mechanics and content? Many of the threads have a large number of views simply because they were the first ones posted. Many people write guides, while they are leveling up or just barely hit 60. While their intentions may be for the best, much of what is discussed is through a tunnel vision approach or biased towards a preferred playstyle. I think I am guilty of that sometimes. Furthermore, many people neglect updating their threads to reflect changes, fixes, new approaches they themselves are doing, myself included.
Also very few people take advantage of a free tool, namely the preview server, to test things. I may have been insensitive about the cost of respec in my earlier post, because there was a time when I thought it was ridiculous. I still think it is for new players. That's where the preview server becomes useful. Before committing to any respec, or a different spec/playstyle, copy your character over and test things out. In a way everyone has access to free respecs before committing to one. (lol in the amount of time it took me to write this post, 3 people suggested this already)