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Guardian... too hard coded in it's role
raygarian
Member Posts: 5 Arc User
I know some people will defend the Guardian but everyone is allowed their own opinion.
So far I played the Cleric, Rogue, and Guardian.
I prefer the Tanking role, but I suppose my biggest complaint is the lack of satisfaction with the class.
If you're playing a Rogue, you like seeing high damage output. You can focus skills and gear on that and you will see results. Same with a Cleric & Healing. You can feel the results.
You don't get that with a Guardian. I feel like I can't advance in effectiveness in Solo, PvE, and PvP, regardless of what gear I get. No one cares about your damage. When you're guard is broken you still die pretty fast. Only thing that matters is your Guard skill which is almost independent from your gear.
My personal issues:
You don't feel like you excel at anything. Changing powers, skills, and gear doesn't change that. You feel stuck into a very rigid hard coded role.
You're only a 1 trick pony and a gimped one by comparison to Tanking classes in other MMOs.
Anyway, that's the end of my rant.
So far I played the Cleric, Rogue, and Guardian.
I prefer the Tanking role, but I suppose my biggest complaint is the lack of satisfaction with the class.
If you're playing a Rogue, you like seeing high damage output. You can focus skills and gear on that and you will see results. Same with a Cleric & Healing. You can feel the results.
You don't get that with a Guardian. I feel like I can't advance in effectiveness in Solo, PvE, and PvP, regardless of what gear I get. No one cares about your damage. When you're guard is broken you still die pretty fast. Only thing that matters is your Guard skill which is almost independent from your gear.
My personal issues:
- You have 4 'at wills'... but not really. You have 'mechanics' that you use 90% of the time that you can't change.
- You have no true choice in skill investments. You're a tank. You choose tanking skills.
- Focusing on DSP skills doesn't make you a DPS class so why are they in the game?
- You can PvP with 0 kills.
- You solo slower than everyone else.
- You do the least amount of damage.
- You can fully equip yourself in high end epics to what end?
- You can't tank groups. Only some. Over tanking kills your Guard.
- You can't truly tank a boss. They attack move everywhere. You can interrupt and reduce their damage some. And the boss's minions? You're NOT supposed to tank them otherwise you are definitely dead.
- You aren't valued for damage output, or damage reduction.
You don't feel like you excel at anything. Changing powers, skills, and gear doesn't change that. You feel stuck into a very rigid hard coded role.
You're only a 1 trick pony and a gimped one by comparison to Tanking classes in other MMOs.
Anyway, that's the end of my rant.
Post edited by raygarian on
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Comments
Given the above, you have far less rigid role than other "tanking" classes in other MMORPGs.
So, I guess we play two different games or play them so differently that we cannot agree! Perhaps the problem is that you expected a "tank" class and got anything but that, yet failed to explore the other aspects of the class...
The best thing anyone can do when making a GF is just forget about your Guard. If you start from that premise, you will eventually enjoy the class a LOT more, including when you do finally manage to understand your Guard.
I was going to respond to each point in this list but.....
The only at will I find no use for is Crushing Surge. Most GF's seem to avoid the tanking skills, as the gear/guard gives them all the tanking they need. GF's can often easily top damage charts in dungeons. PvP isnt about kills, its about points (Unless you want head hunter title). You can tank groups. You can tank bosses. You can do damage and/or prevent damage. We have the skills.
Moving, CC, buffs... GF is the most fun tank in the history of MMOs...
If you need everything explained here you go: trample the fallen and combat superiority passives. lunging strike, knights challenge, frontline surge encounters. cleave and threatening rush at wills. your level 50 daily (can't remember the name, prone + knockback) and fighters recovery. If you put knights challenge on a TR, CW or DC and then frontline + lunge they will be dead or at 10%. Open with your daily and you kill someone before they can do anything at all 90% of the time. Stupid easy to do insane damage no matter what gear you have.
We are definitely dominating, and we are always about to win.
I'm one of the TOP GF on Mindflayer I'm currently running:
Guardian Fighter Tank Build (This is a tank build not DPS)
36K Health
11.5K Power (Yes! 11,500+ Power)
28% Deflection
46-48% Damage Reduction (Don't remember off the top of my head)
12% ArP + Greater Plague Fire (12.8% is all you need for TRASH & G-Plague Fire gives you the rest for Elites/Bosses)
20% CRT Chance
9.6% Health Regeneration
7% Life Steal
3 - Greater Tene's (Offers more single target damage gain than ArP or Power)
This build DOES NOT stack deflection or defense only HP & Regeneration.
CN - My damage varies between 8-11 Million Damage over entire run with 3Mil+ on Draco. Like most GF's during Draco I run around grabbing aggro on Red Wizards & rounding up mobs to knock off. Boss is normally at 80% by the time I can switch to single target and go to town on Draco.
I'm also working on a DPS Version of my build current design:
13.8k Power
20% CRT
24% ArP
Greater Vorpal (Can't afford a Perfect.)
After I'm done with all of my testing I'll make a guide on my 2 builds. DPS & Tank GF.
If Guardians can't tank, there wouldn't be any demand of tanks in the zone chat (dps/full tank).
Try joining a guild and ask for tips on how to properly utilise a Guardian: against mobs, bosses, adds, pvp etc.
IMO, the GF is the most versatile class in NWO.
Please don't lie. What you post is a total DPS-Build.
20% Crit? DPS
11,5k Power? DPS --> Is alone 460 Damage(~70% of my Weapon damage!)
36k HP? Tank
28% Defl? Tank
12% ArP? DPS
3 GTe? DPS
46-48% DR? Only because sets? Not Tank
So you post a DPS-Build, not a Tankbuild. Which path you choiced? Con? Pro? Tac?
The Protector path lack really a DR buff. The +5 to AC is really small. Only 2,5% DR increase. For what? Huge decrease in pot. damage! So the DPS-Path has to nerf or the Tac+Protector-Path need buffs. A tank, that deals huge damage is a fail code. First i would remove the +power from all Sets.
The issue is players like you look at damage as a DPS build and not a TANK that does good damage. If you are stacking defense or deflection then you are gimping your potential.
I'm can tank all content and do massive damage. It's players like yourself that give GF's a bad rep and why people will chose another TR over GF because you think pure tank and no damage is good.
Also my DPS build is:
32k HP
13.8K Power
20% CRT
24% ArP
G-Vorpal
4-5% Regen
4-5% Life Steal
20% Deflection
Don't know about you but I can still tank all content in my DPS build and do tons more damage than most players.
You missleading. YOU throw the tank rep down. >> If you are stacking defense or deflection then you are gimping your potential.<<
I'm stacking Defense for surviving, but players like YOU are the bad. Oh low Dps? Useless! The tank have to do massive Dmg too! He can't? Useless! I choose the prot path for be a tank. But it is honored by the game? I don't really think so.
Going tank spec or stacking nothing but defense and deflection is overkill for the dungeons. You don't need all that defense, whereas offense kills mobs faster and thins the herd down quicker so you don't have to tank as much.
If you are protection spec and/or stacking defense and deflection, you are wasting your time. Extra defense stats beyond the threshhold of survivability are wasted stats. If you want to be a turtle tank that doesn't do damage, there are plenty of other games MMO games out there based around that model. NW requires damage and tanking skill, not tanking stats.
The best way to reduce damage in this game is through avoidance skill, not mitigation stats. Block the high damage encounters, and move around to avoid the horde of little hits so your guard doesn't break. Standing there with everything beating on you doesn't work in this game, but if that's your thing, go play WoW. You can tank with one finger there and you won't have to move at all.
Edit -- Also, imagine that your tank-specced GF and my damage-specced GF were both in the same group. I would hold aggro on all the mobs over you with my superior threat due to all the damage I have and I have enough survivability to survive the content. You, on the other hand, won't be tanking anything. All your defense stats are useless, and you have no offense, so you would be adding nothing to that group.
You can have excess defense in dungeons. You even can have excess control in dungeons (this can lead us to a long cw builds discussion). But you can never have excess DPS. End of story.
If they changed it so bosses actually did unavoidable attacks/melee that really hurt (like maw red attacks), then tanks would have their place
and also the featured satirical comedic adventure "A Call for Heroes".
Speaking as a "PVE" AOE DPS GWF. I am at 22K hp running 26 STR, 15 CON, 19 DEX. Bring your 40k myth on. I will chew his DPS for breakfast and shart it out by lunch.
I would suggest you stopping by the following link.
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?407291-Des-s-GF-Interceptor-Tank-Build
I'm assuming you don't use Knight's Valor, at all. It's the best tanking skill in the game, but it deals no damage on its own, which is probably why you wouldn't take it.
I'm curious if you can survive Castle Never while using Knight's Valor. For an added bonus, you can't sit in your DC's Astral Shield for very long, either. I'm curious if you can survive the Spider Queen boss fight while using Knight's Valor while standing outside of Astral Shield.
It's funny how whenever I play with people on my Tactician GF, they are beyond surprised when they see me play. The most common thing said is, "Wow. I've never seen a GF hold aggro or live as long as you do." The people I play with are 11.5-12k GS DCs, CWs, and TRs who have earned all their gear on two or more characters.
I gather and hold agro in castle never without astral shield, i heal myself, i'm always aware of the battlefield in case someone makes a mistake on pushing mobs and gets unwanted agro i can even run on knight's valor if i had to random pug a t2 (i don't anymore, but sometimes im bored enough to) all of it while topping dps charts or tying the dps of the wizards in CN, i dont care about dps, i care about runs being efficient, smooth and fun, and there is not a single advantage for it in tactician/protector over conqueror, that's the truth, you being skilled doesnt magically turn the other paths in better, just as i always said, if you're skilled, all paths are great to play, conqueror is better for good groups and good players, the others are slightly better if youre a HAMSTER that likes to pug and run CN/T2 with unknown players.
Again, a proof video please
These stats as you have them listed are not possible. plus you have no armor pen ?
I'm also curious how you achieved those stats. Not saying it's not possible but it must be all max rank/perfect enchants?
- Dragon Shard -
I use Knights Valor, Lunge, FrontLine surge.
Knights Valor is amazing skill for AP generation and protecting my teammates. I'm Scroto Bagins on Mindflayer in FistFul of Zen - You can watch my guildmate's stream on Twitch. Xira runs CN and streams it all the time. I personally don't stream sorry.
Standing in or out of blue ring isn't an issue, it's more of if my team suddenly gets hit with a very high burst. In my tank build I have 36k HP and have a ton of Regen/Life Steal, so I can get my life back fast. It's always funny when my team kills me on purpose when the TR drops a Decoy and all 4 teammates stand in a massive AOE. They get a good laugh at watching me get insta jibbed.
Yeah, probably one of my favorite abilities in any MMO ever.
Does Knight's Valor still bug out, though? (The button simply becomes inert.) I basically stopped running dungeons on my Fighter because of that bug.
How do you achieve 11.5k Power when your Power from items is only 2,807, please? Even with Reckless Attacker Conqueror feat and a pure Power companion with Rank 8 enchants that would still only get you to ~7600 Power.
Are you including an additional buff from Stalwarts in middle of combat, in which case the full 5x5% stacking with 36k HP would give you an additional 9k Power not the missing 3.9k?
Screenshots or it didn't happen .
For those that have been asking how I achieve the #'s I've created a guide.
Nope can't afford Rank 10's that will be many months away and even then the gain's from Rank 8 to 10 is very minimal.
Using Knights Valor you always have 5/5 Stacks at the beginning of every fight till the end of combat.