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I guess $20 pays the admission to Castle Neverwinter..

joncansjoncans Member Posts: 158 Bounty Hunter
edited July 2013 in General Discussion (PC)
Sorry about the snarky thread title, but now you are lured. First off, I love the game, and I realize it is very new so I can accept it in all its flawed glory. I am loving my time in game, hooked up with a great guild and so far have gotten to the second boss in CN before our party had to disband (3 hours just to get there).

But I do want to make an observation, and one that does concern me. Before attempting the CN run with guildies I had a 9.6 GS on my GF. After running all the T1's and most of the T2's and having some legitimate challenges (most were pugs) I wanted to gear up a bit more for CN. So, I went and spent $20 on Zen, and converted it all to AD. Then I went nuts on the AH and now I am sitting with a 10.6 GS.

This is not a complaint thread about the game, I know it is free. So far I have willingly spent money on my companion and now $20 on Zen to AD. This thread is about the fact that it is VERY easy to gear up to a snazzy set of T2 PVE gear with a little less than $20. Now to me this seems kind of lame. I know it was MY choice in the end, and maybe I ruined the excitement of have epics explode out of fallen bosses, but hey the option is there, and from what I can tell A LOT of folks have done it as well.

My only thought on a solution is this: Create gold drops, that are racial and class specific. These are BOP (bind on pickup) and cannot be sold on the AH. Make a set, give them a one of kind name, whatever. If you are going to allow players like myself just go out and buy the best gear the game has to offer (My High General set is so much better than anything Drake Seals has to offer), then this would work. Either that or BOP epics, but then you would have to wipe the server for all of us money having scumbags who buy everything. (Actually I'm a college student who paid using spare FASFA monies). Do we agree, or disagree?
BladeRunner-Proud member of the BlackCloaks.
Post edited by joncans on

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    veruganverugan Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 100
    edited July 2013
    So another set of gear that is BoP only, that is better than everything that exists currently? They laid out a plan to make epics BoP already but then they trashed that plan and are working on another. Considering how the currencies and economies tie together I find it unlikely they're going to do this, mainly because you just spent $20 on gear and others will to. If there's a better BoP set then they lose that revenue.
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    chidy1776chidy1776 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    Yea this is an interwsting subject. I dnt mind ppl spending money to get up to gear levels lkke my Gf, but i am cincerned that when ppl do this it causes a drop in active players due to ppl not feeling like they have any progression left. I personally would like to see T2.5 gear sets that are BoP. With this solution you could buy a great T2 set and do anything in the game if that is how you like to play, but you would always still have a gear srt to work towards, even if it is only slightly better. The only thing with this solution is i feel the set would ha e to be pretty difficult to obtain, like CN difficulty dungeons.
    Paul 60 guardian fighter on mindflayer.

    Rising Star, fun friendly, community focused guild on mindflayer. We strive to help each other and enjoy the game together. Talk to me for info, or feel free to check and join our community at risingstarneverwinter.enjin.com
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    brendan03usbrendan03us Member, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    That's right. It has to do with the Zen purchase market, which is brisk precisely because Zen can be exchanged for AD which is so useful for gearing up. Kill that by making high tier gear BOP, and you really cut back on Zen sales across the board. Most people know that spending money on companions, other than augments, is a waste, so that's not a big source of Zen sales, and the amount spent on bags is substantial but finite. I would guess that the biggest spends of Zen are AD exchange to use on AH, followed by purple mounts (which are expensive but at least usable on every character). Kill one of those and the Zen sales reduce a lot.
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    goldentulipgoldentulip Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    Disagree, you had the choice to either spend the $20 or grind for wanted gear.
    fss_overall.png
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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    milkbonedogmilkbonedog Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 1 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    Disagree. Some like to run Dungeons, some don't. One of the things I loved about this game is I do not have to go an grind a dungeon over and over or PVP forever to get the gear I want. If I wanted to play that way I would go back to WOW. This game gives players options. I can run a dungeon and if the gear I need doesn't drop I can sell/trade what did. If I love to PVP but do not need the gear I can sell it and make some money. It is the only real source of income for someone who strictly does PVP.

    I'm sure many people feel that the items should be BOP, and that is their right, but I don't think it should be changed now. Although I believe PWE does tend to agree with you because a lot of stuff will be BOP in the new content. If everything was changed to BOP the Zen sales would drop tremendously because many people do exactly what you did (Drop $20 and gear up). This game gives players options. Hopefully they won't take them all away.
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    joncansjoncans Member Posts: 158 Bounty Hunter
    edited July 2013
    milkbonedog wrote: »
    Disagree. Some like to run Dungeons, some don't. One of the things I loved about this game is I do not have to go an grind a dungeon over and over or PVP forever to get the gear I want. If I wanted to play that way I would go back to WOW. This game gives players options. I can run a dungeon and if the gear I need doesn't drop I can sell/trade what did. If I love to PVP but do not need the gear I can sell it and make some money. It is the only real source of income for someone who strictly does PVP.

    I'm sure many people feel that the items should be BOP, and that is their right, but I don't think it should be changed now. Although I believe PWE does tend to agree with you because a lot of stuff will be BOP in the new content. If everything was changed to BOP the Zen sales would drop tremendously because many people do exactly what you did (Drop $20 and gear up). This game gives players options. Hopefully they won't take them all away.

    See I love running dungeons and working tactics with a good group. I actually hate grinding and speed running like that god awful GG Phase 3 <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> of a dungeon. The one where people just burn through the mobs, get to the camp, have the rest of the party leave and then come back. All to farm some PVP T2 coins. That right there, takes ALL the fun out of this game for me.

    Now if all epics were BOP, I do not think the Zen would hurt too bad. If we are trying to achieve that 15k GS, then we all know it's all about enchants. After Rank 6 they get VERY expensive. People are going to spend AD on Enchants all day, and the epic armor and weapon start at I think around 90k AD (estimate, I play on Beholder).
    BladeRunner-Proud member of the BlackCloaks.
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    parp12parp12 Member Posts: 642 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    joncans wrote: »
    This is not a complaint thread about the game, I know it is free. So far I have willingly spent money on my companion and now $20 on Zen to AD. This thread is about the fact that it is VERY easy to gear up to a snazzy set of T2 PVE gear with a little less than $20. Now to me this seems kind of lame. I know it was MY choice in the end, and maybe I ruined the excitement of have epics explode out of fallen bosses, but hey the option is there, and from what I can tell A LOT of folks have done it as well.
    Thing is it's easy without spending money too. My most recent character I got glory gear first, then ran GG and used my coins to get items which were highest selling on the AH, then after selling 2 GG items bought myself a full T2 set of my choice. A few later I'm around 10.5k. Part of me thinks it's cool I didn't have to grind dungeon after dungeon not getting the items I wanted, and part of me thinks it's just too easy. At least if there was a mix of boe and bop, obviously with the bop being a bit better. Or make the boe stuff look really ghetto, and bop nice and shiny.
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    nighthalasnighthalas Member Posts: 55
    edited July 2013
    It is possible to get the best possible gear for 1-3 million astral diamonds depending on the character class but filling that gear with rank 10 enchantments and perfect weapon and armor enchantments costs 50-200 million astral diamonds.

    Upgrading player character and companion from rank 7 to rank 10 enchantments and runestones gives a greater increase of stats than upgrading from T1 to T2 gear. The difference between a rank 7 and a rank 10 enchantment or runestone is 115 points of stats. Since player character and augment companion have a total of fifteen offensive/defensive slots, the total difference is 1400-1725 points. The difference in stats between a T1 and a T2 set is approximately 10-12% if special abilities with full item sets are not taken into account.

    Unless the developers really add T3 items some day, the current equivalent of upgrade from T2 to T3 is the upgrade of runes from rank 7 to rank 10.
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    joncansjoncans Member Posts: 158 Bounty Hunter
    edited July 2013
    nighthalas wrote: »
    It is possible to get the best possible gear for 1-3 million astral diamonds depending on the character class but filling that gear with rank 10 enchantments and perfect weapon and armor enchantments costs 50-200 million astral diamonds.

    Upgrading player character and companion from rank 7 to rank 10 enchantments and runestones gives a greater increase of stats than upgrading from T1 to T2 gear. The difference between a rank 7 and a rank 10 enchantment or runestone is 115 points of stats. Since player character and augment companion have a total of fifteen offensive/defensive slots, the total difference is 1400-1725 points. The difference in stats between a T1 and a T2 set is approximately 10-12% if special abilities with full item sets are not taken into account.

    Unless the developers really add T3 items some day, the current equivalent of upgrade from T2 to T3 is the upgrade of runes from rank 7 to rank 10.

    I stated in a reply that I felt this is the reason the Zen market would still stay strong. Enchants, disenchants and companion enchanting is VERY expensive at max level as you just pointed out. So then would it really hurt to starting BOPing epics then? Also T3 is coming out in Feywild.
    BladeRunner-Proud member of the BlackCloaks.
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    vayranovayrano Member Posts: 26 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    joncans wrote: »
    I stated in a reply that I felt this is the reason the Zen market would still stay strong. Enchants, disenchants and companion enchanting is VERY expensive at max level as you just pointed out. So then would it really hurt to starting BOPing epics then? Also T3 is coming out in Feywild.

    I wouldn't assume how the Zen market will be like if gear became BoP, we have no idea how changes can pan out for the market. Besides the devs already panned the BoP idea due to the community feedback. Plus no where has it been said T3 is coming out in the expansion. They're seem more like either a mix of T2 & T2.5 and aren't necessarily the best in slot either.

    Though considering they already brought over STO (Star Trek Online)'s reputation system, I suspect we may eventually see BoP gear/items appear in the system here. Basically as you level up through the campaign system you unlock higher quality/tier items which you can buy with associated costs/goods. So you can gain access to say T0.5 gear at the first tier, while the last tier unlocks T2.5 gear.
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    nighthalasnighthalas Member Posts: 55
    edited July 2013
    The publisher gets a lot more money if casual players can buy the best gear with zen converted to astral diamonds. If the best gear was BoP, many casual players might not be able to get the gear because of at least three reasons: the elitism of some hardcore players, the inability of many random queue groups to complete difficult dungeons successfully, and the lack of time to go through the same dungeon over and over again to get a certain item. Many casual players willing to spend real money on the game wouldn't be able to get the best T2 items with money and they might not be happy to spend a lot of real money on expensive enchantments to put them into inferior T1 items.
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    ranncoreranncore Member, Moderators, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild Users Posts: 2,508
    edited July 2013
    I've never spent money on gear or companions. Sitting at 12k GS tactician and a cat. inb4 no life or whatever lame insults you want to throw, I work full time. I just waited til I was ready instead of being in a big rush to buy what I needed.

    You had the same choice.
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    brendan03usbrendan03us Member, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    nighthalas wrote: »
    The publisher gets a lot more money if casual players can buy the best gear with zen converted to astral diamonds. If the best gear was BoP, many casual players might not be able to get the gear because of at least three reasons: the elitism of some hardcore players, the inability of many random queue groups to complete difficult dungeons successfully, and the lack of time to go through the same dungeon over and over again to get a certain item. Many casual players willing to spend real money on the game wouldn't be able to get the best T2 items with money and they might not be happy to spend a lot of real money on expensive enchantments to put them into inferior T1 items.

    Right.

    If you make the Tier gear BOP, lots of people won't bother to get it, and that's Zen sales right down the drain. Those won't be made up for those players by Zen sales to buy enchants, because they won't have the Tier gear anyway. The current system encourages them to buy for getting gear AND for getting chants. I don't see PWE changing that, for the reason that it will, in any case, inevitably shrink Zen sales.

    The Campaign system that is coming will likely be similar to STO's reputation system, whereby you do dailies and instances for points and exchange these for BOP gear. But that gear can be grinded out without players needing to do instances, and I'd expect this to be the same.
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    kreicuskreicus Member Posts: 76
    edited July 2013
    ranncore wrote: »
    I've never spent money on gear or companions. Sitting at 12k GS tactician and a cat. inb4 no life or whatever lame insults you want to throw, I work full time. I just waited til I was ready instead of being in a big rush to buy what I needed.

    You had the same choice.

    Same. Its the journey not the destination. Was in no hurry to get gear. 12k, Stone, 110% Mount, etc... $0
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