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Reasoning behind a new pet outhealing the old stacking Astral Shield
phraus
Member Posts: 40
Sirs:
A new pet (Lillend) has been released;
Max Level 30
Powers:
Rejuvenating Chord
2s cooldown, 50 range
Heals the summoner for 1.8% of Max Hit Points. That is, for 25000HPs, ticks every 2 seconds about 450!!!
Audio Drain
7s cooldown, 30 range
Deals Physical Damage
Deals damage over time to target foe and heals allies near the target for 3.5% of their maximum health with every tick (the tooltip says 1.4, but in in-game pets it clearly says 3.5%). for 25000HP, that means ticks of 875. A campfire gives ticks of 640, a dc ok, better dont even tell.
Piercing Notes
Foes hit by Audio Drain are weakened and take 20% more damage.. Before AD change you needed TWO high level DCs fully focused on feats to get two stacking AD for a similar (worst if we consider the healing) effect.
Well....waiting for a reasoning from the Devs and/or moderators explaining why is reasonable that a pet has more effect than the average DC in game and why a pet can do things that TWO DCs at a time were deeply nerfed to avoid doing it.
Do You find it fun?:p
Do You find it is in-line with the rest of DC abilities?
Do You find it is in-line with the rest of classes abilities?
A new pet (Lillend) has been released;
Max Level 30
Powers:
Rejuvenating Chord
2s cooldown, 50 range
Heals the summoner for 1.8% of Max Hit Points. That is, for 25000HPs, ticks every 2 seconds about 450!!!
Audio Drain
7s cooldown, 30 range
Deals Physical Damage
Deals damage over time to target foe and heals allies near the target for 3.5% of their maximum health with every tick (the tooltip says 1.4, but in in-game pets it clearly says 3.5%). for 25000HP, that means ticks of 875. A campfire gives ticks of 640, a dc ok, better dont even tell.
Piercing Notes
Foes hit by Audio Drain are weakened and take 20% more damage.. Before AD change you needed TWO high level DCs fully focused on feats to get two stacking AD for a similar (worst if we consider the healing) effect.
Well....waiting for a reasoning from the Devs and/or moderators explaining why is reasonable that a pet has more effect than the average DC in game and why a pet can do things that TWO DCs at a time were deeply nerfed to avoid doing it.
Do You find it fun?:p
Do You find it is in-line with the rest of DC abilities?
Do You find it is in-line with the rest of classes abilities?
Post edited by phraus on
0
Comments
Secondly, I've run T2s with a guild mate who has one of these, it gets one-shotted constantly.
You have nothing to worry about.
I don't really see the connection to Clerics at all, it's not even in the same ballpark as a semi-competent DC. Even given your own examples, it would heal about the same as a mid to late 20s DC.. at 60.. in full epic gear.
It's not a bad companion, but by no means is this thing going to suddenly start healing runs on it's own, not even if every single character in the party had one.
Plus in any case, a stone adds over 2k stats, that is far better.
- DRAGON - ( Mehrea DC 13.1k ) - ( Volsung TR 11.7k )
Also it pulls unessacary aggro.
Clerics will always be needed, just to many powers that will save a group sometimes.
Toons:
New: CW Level 60
GF = Level 60
DC = Level 60
TR = Level 60
I don't know, maybe I do something wrong. But when I compare the stats after a T2 dungeons run, it usually looks like:
Healed: around 2 to 3 million (depends on dungeon and group)
Damage: around 1.5 to 2 million (this is quite constant)
A average rogue comes to the about 6 to 7 times the damage I do. GWFs can score that without problems too. Wiz are quite next.
So, cleric do the least damage - no problem with that. However, the combined healing + damage output is lesser then the combined output of all other class.
That clearly shows, that the cleric is quite underperforming. Sure, he is needed. But it's more like a racing car which has 3 racing tires but 1 compact car tire. Without the compact car tire, it cannot move at all so it is necessary, but it is somewhat limited in his performance in racing. As soon as there is a new racing tire, the compact tire will be obsolete.
Depends on the build, also don't forget that Clerics provide damage mitigation, temporary hitpoints, and a variety of other buffs that increase stats, damage, etc.
We deserve compensation
That's not what it shows at all. There's no performance table for Damage Reduction, Buffing or Debuffing and maybe in later content Cleansing. Yet all of these things are by far the largest output of the Cleric. On top of that they do pretty good damage!
As far as clerics not doing enough i dont really get that. I mean like 40% of all the damage of the entire dungeon mitigated, plus enough heals to finish the run easily, plus a little damage.
I mean what are you wanting exactly lol? If this was a MMO with pure just healing and damage you might have a point, but the entire cleric class is almost completely built around damage mitigation with heals to just top off. Your point has no relevance.
Edit: take the numbers of damage + healing for each of the other characters vs your healing + damage then add like 40% on to it, then see if you can still complain about a gap.
I think its so non-clerics can lead the healing score cards.
what we want is the -40% penalty taken off of self healing, no other game imposes this upon clerics and that includes D&D
Understood but that has no relevance to the discussion at hand.
I agree that in PvP they should loosen that up or take it away all together. PvE content would be trivialized if you could heal yourself that much though.
Leveling wise as a cleric it was super easy to level completely solo. With no knowledge of the game i did it in a week, died only once at like level 55, and only had to get help on one quest period. The leveling process would be broken if it was loosened up there.
Dungeon wise it feels a little heavy handed, but nothing that cannot be dealt with. Right now content can be challenging when other people have trouble handling their responsibilities. I like those hectic oh <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> moments. If you took away righteousness away then those hectic moments would cease to exist, it would be super duper easy mode instead of just kinda easy mode.
Wrong: the entire cleric class WOULD almost completely built around damage mitigation IF THE STATS, POWERS and FEATS would be functioning correctly (or at least as stated in the tooltips). THEY DONT, with a few exceptions, already nerfed.
What I am saying is:
The possibility to get a similar level debuff and similar healing using TWO clerics at a time in a dungeon was removed some patches ago, reasoned as playability. (like the other functioning debuff , Cleanse, was nerfed so deeply that now is completely useless).
Now You find it in a pet. No matter if it is expensive, or rare, or ugly. No matter if a geared char can 1-shoot it (as they can 1-shot most DCs too)
What I want exactly? mostly a basic RESPECT for DC class. And that stats, powers and feats work at least as the tooltips say they do.
And yes, I can still complain of a gap when a pet heals more than a campfire and you know perfectly that except veeeeery excepcionally, for veeeeeery short periods of time, and in a really rare and few combinations of criticals, luck, and feats, DCs just dont.
So you are upset that this pet has part of the cumulative abilities that were obtained previously by stacking two clerics in a party. I can get that.
The only point i am making is who cares. This ability that the pet has cannot exist in anyplace where the ability would even matter so who cares?
These pets are useless in any epic dungeon.
Who cares if a pet does something sorta cleric like with sorta cleric numbers in a private foundry run or leveling?
I love the cleric class and am very passionate about this. I am an opinionated person as well. I just cant find anyway to feel disrespect on par with you over this issue. It just seems like you are complaining just to complain.
To each their own though!
Cheers!
I assure you it would play no different whatsoever in PvE except at level 60 and any bosses that are extremely difficult where you actually need that healing.
Ok, I'm confused. What ability is this pet mimicing that bothers you so much? the healing? The purple, rare, insanely expensive healing companion that heals slightly better than a white free companion?
Your argument is obsolete. There is also no performance for controlling, debuffing or tanking. And all these actions are performed by group members which are not clerics and nevertheless scores 2 to 8 times higher then the cleric in overall scores.
The problem currently is, that there are too less hybrid abilities. Cleric need to choose to do damage or to heal.
Every spell should be like forgemasters flame or sunburst. It should do damage AND heal - and not only in divine mode.
Edit: No problem, but then I would need to add roughly 40% to the numbers of CWs, TRs, GWFs and GFs that do above mentioned things.
What class do protect better? A CW that pushes 15 adds down a cliff so they do no damage at all or a DC hat provide 20% damage reduction to the party and a 450 tick Hot by astral shield?
No, its not obsolete. You're just going off on tangents that have nothing to do with the thread. Are you honestly comparing the buffs and debuffs that a Cleric provides to any other class (excluding gear ofc).
So, let's get this straight, you want a class that can heal (at least heal others well anyway) to have 2-8 times higher damage? What would be the point of bringing any other classes other than Clerics to groups?
A CW has to stand still to cast. Overall, first the group has to survive to protect and then they need to sustain it. That's more than just a little bit difficult without a Cleric in an endgame dungeon to put it mildly (unless they are highly overgeared, but that applies to any MMO game).
no. I want a class that can heal doing around 2x damages they do now if they focus on healing. Clerics that focus on damage are fine (see another thread here). Good geared damage clerics can score very high values by using AE attacks (namely Divine glow, sunburst and, dauting light and searing light).
The healing of a cleric focused on healing (astral shield, sunburst, healing word/Bastion) is not as high as the damage of a damage cleric or any other damage dealer. The damage of a healing cleric is very low.
Therefore, it must be raised. Of course not as high as if going for DPS. But you it should reach 1.5 to 2 times of the damage now.
any pet wich is still in the early level possess poor health and armor level. For this reason alone lillend is likely to be somewhat weak until about the lvl 20s+ where she will be actualy able to take a lot of hit if geared properly (give her defensive rings and she will do great)
my lillend is level 30 and possess 3 ring of blazing light wich gives top defence and deflection tagged up with a defensive slot i socceted 3 azure enchant lvl 7 in. My lillend can take the dracolich shadow hand 4 time before dying.
As a cleric i find that using the lillend to add to my own insane healing capacity (im 12k+ gearscore) is actualy a wonderfull way to cope for the fact im already soft spotted on all my stat beside of deflection (nice but...) armor penetration (useless) and power (lets be honest it just isnt worth it for the small bonus it even gives)
Lillend alone actualy is enought to keep me alive so that i can concentrate on my partners and heal them up. Aside from fight where the pets are targeted directly by circles (part 3 dracolich) better yet it debuff foes and heal party for a good amount what more could i ask for.
Lillend is prety much impossible to kill if geared correctly at level 30 and makes for the perfect healer assistant companion. I recommand her to any well geared cleric over ioun stone (I do have a ioun stone lvl 25 and i dont even use it)
6 hit from hand on dracolich... not one but 6!
as for adds they just dont attack her cept by aoe and she can take the aoe damage without any problem
i can carry her in ANY epic dungeon that doesnt directly put a instant kill under your feet every 10 second
makes her useless only on dracolich fight. Of course if you aint a cleric this just wont work because you cant heal her directly
if your lillend dies... its because you fail at leveling her and gearing her...
However ill remind you no pet can replace a true healer she merely serve as an assistant
Then again this insult was the straw that broke the camel's back for me, I'm going to go play Rift since it's FTP and extremely well rounded/ton's of content. Bad move imo on Neverwinter's part. lol
At 3.5 million AD a pop each plus levelling them to max and gearing them, that would be one rich and committed group to eliminating Clerics...!
Besides, the pet sounds more useful to Cleric than any other class by far.
In fairness, the OP didn't mention a few of Lillend's other abilities:
Farcical Dirge
5 second cooldown, melee range
-Friends and enemies alike are overcome with a debilitating wave of morbid amusement as Lillend stands proudly in every patch of red she sees, making ineffectual threats even as she's struck dead.
Attention-seeking Diva
0.5 second cooldown, infinite range
-Thanks to Lillend's advanced path-finding AI, even her summoner will marvel at her capacity to attract unwanted aggro from mobs all over the surrounding area. But don't worry, she's not a selfish diva; after she opens the fight with Farcical Dirge, you'll have all the attention to yourself!
Sour Note
permanent aura, infinite radius, unlocks at player-level 60
-Lillend's dulcet melodies have a gradually accelerating grating effect, debuffing the summoner's sense of well-being. When one hears the Sour Note, movement speed gradually reduces to zero, and the summoner finds himself sitting in place, repeatedly, compulsively opening and closing the Zen Store window -- over and over again -- shedding tears as he contemplates the Ioun Stone advertisement, simultaneously fixated upon, and fearful to consider, what could have been.
Her rejuvenating chord only heals me for 1.286% max health not 1.8%. She doesnt even use it on me until i drop to 25%, and when im over 25% she stops using it again in combat. She only fills me to 80% out of combat, and stands around for the first 15 plus seconds of combat doing nothing usually.
Her Audio drain heal ticks on me for 455 which is about 1.5% of max hit points so it is about what they say it should be.
I have 29,848 max hit points for those who wish to calculate.
Lillend needs fix bad. She should try to top you off anytime you become injured, in and out of combat. and her rejuv chord is grossly underhealing, because i built her out with power and crit and cant even get 1.4% out of a 1.8% heal