Player death part of the objective - allowed?

runis12 · July 2013

The player and his NPC buddies get surrounded by monsters. It's a big, desperate battle in which the player will be able to fend off a lot of these monsters, but will eventually be overrun by super-stacked encounters. The player will die and respawn at the campfire (which was immediately unlocked upon entering the area, yet set somewhere initially inaccessible). He will be greeted by an NPC that "rezzed" him and the quest continues from there.

Is forcing a player death allowed in such a case? Or will it be considering "griefing"? What do you think? Is there an official word out on this kind of thing?

Thanks, guys!

pris23 · July 2013

The only way that I can think to do that, without angering players, would be to have it fade to black after a tough fight. Then when they come back you can have a camp fire and an NPC that have spawned with dialog explaining that to them. To my knowledge you cannot force a map transition in this way.

P.S. you could add creepy monster sound FX at the same time as the blackout so that it sounds like the character has been overwhelmed after passing out or whatever. You know to really add that overwhelmed, this is the end feeling.

zovya · July 2013

Nyghoma killed his players all the time. Not against the TOS. But expect negative reviews. :-)

runis12 · July 2013

Yeah, I don't want a map transition. I want the player to actually have to die, say WTF out loud at the swarms of monsters, respawn to a creepy little girl who rezzes you.

The area you enter is a canyon. What I did was put the campfire at about 70-75 Y (from Zero Altitude - that seems to be the max range to "unlock" it), on TOP of a rocky "archway" that must be passed and is unavoidable. The campfire is not visible because it is enclosed in a hand-built cave above the arch. After passing the "archway", you face the impossible armies of monsters. You die, and respawn in the cave with the campfire, with no way back to the battle. You are greeted by the little girl who "rezzed" you. The quest continues as you chase her down this cave.

Hope this explanation clears things. I have everything sorted out for this to work. Just wondering if it's ALLOWED.

I see what you mean by creating a similar effect without the death. I just really want the big WTF moment from the player when faced with the impossible encounters.

runis12 · July 2013

zovya wrote: »

Nyghoma killed his players all the time. Not against the TOS. But expect negative reviews. :-)

:rolleyes::cool:Hah! Oh, people....

saerrael · July 2013

It's allowed. It's been done before, once. Though I can't recall the Foundry that did it >.>

shorlong · July 2013

zovya wrote: »

Nyghoma killed his players all the time. Not against the TOS. But expect negative reviews. :-)

I think I pee'd a little....

crok2 · July 2013

I think KM Knights quest killed us. It was funny though because we went as a group and didn't actually die.... and were stuck. We THEN read the description that says you will die.

zahinder · July 2013

Yeah, the problem is actually ensuring insane people won't beat your nightmare scenario.

My second mission had a path of most resistance, that was meant to be nearly impossible and encourage people to go another way.

Except... everyone went that way, anyway, and pretty much just snuck by or muscled through. Then dinged me for not properly marking a group quest.

runis12 · July 2013

zahinder wrote: »

Yeah, the problem is actually ensuring insane people won't beat your nightmare scenario.

My second mission had a path of most resistance, that was meant to be nearly impossible and encourage people to go another way.

Except... everyone went that way, anyway, and pretty much just snuck by or muscled through. Then dinged me for not properly marking a group quest.

The main reason I want to do it this way is because I'm wanting to put the emphasis on just how deadly these monsters are.
*blush* It's sort of an Ostagar thing, if you've played Dragon Age. And yes, I've made my own "darkspawn".

There will be many, many .... many monsters. MWEHEHEHEH....! *maniacal laughter accompanied by cat petting*

Though now that I think about it, it'd be cool to have a possible, but rare winning scenario... *back to mulling over map*

pris23 · July 2013

My apologize for the misunderstanding. I see what you mean. Sure you can do that, but there will be quite a few people that will be upset that they had to use their injury kits unless you have an amazing way to lead up to this and make up for it after. I would not be upset about something like that as long as it makes sense with the story and/or it is clear that it was intended to happen.

karitr · July 2013

I think your subscribers will be in it for the story and appreciate the impact it has on their character. As long as your target audience isn't ruffled, I wouldn't worry about others too much (though granted it is always nice to attract a fresh audience).

It's a one-off death and it sounds as if it would be a wonderfully dramatic event for the player, as long as it is pulled off right. In that respect, I wouldn't consider it 'griefing' but I suppose it won't harm to check the Foundry ToS just to ensure it isn't against any rule.

dzogen · July 2013

zovya wrote: »

Nyghoma killed his players all the time.

A strong endorsement for not doing this.

I would place killing someone in the "unfun mechanic" bucket along with wall of text and running down long corridors for no reason.

runis12 · July 2013

Aye, it's supposed to be a dramatic event. Thanks, guys, for the input. =]

sourcreamking · July 2013

I "kill" the player in my quest "As I Die"... But I went for the fade to black option and a creepy atmosphere when you come to...

sarkany69 · July 2013

I actually did that in the second part of my campaign. So far the reception has been quite good (average easily over 4 star) and a lot of people actually liked that little "surprise". You're welcome to read the reviews on it if you don't believe me, short code is part 2 in my sig.

However that could still change, since early last week it got daily eligible.

mrthebozer · July 2013

Interesting thought. Do you have any kind of fail-safes in mind for multiplayer? It'll be a bit harder to guarantee a full team wipe. Aside from the massive increase in survivability and the added rezzes, you'll want to account for runners and stragglers. And remember, just "locking them in the room" with the battle is a risky option, since you might also be locking someone out. I'm not at all against the idea, just putting forward the hurdles that come to mind.

Also - if/when the players manage to surprise you by somehow surviving after all your effort, then what? You'll want to consider an alternative path to progress beyond that point in the quest, even if no one will ever see it.

jedite2012 · July 2013

Wouldn't mine having that but some people might not have injury packs which they should always have

runis12 · July 2013

mrthebozer wrote: »

Interesting thought. Do you have any kind of fail-safes in mind for multiplayer? It'll be a bit harder to guarantee a full team wipe. Aside from the massive increase in survivability and the added rezzes, you'll want to account for runners and stragglers. And remember, just "locking them in the room" with the battle is a risky option, since you might also be locking someone out. I'm not at all against the idea, just putting forward the hurdles that come to mind.

Also - if/when the players manage to surprise you by somehow surviving after all your effort, then what? You'll want to consider an alternative path to progress beyond that point in the quest, even if no one will ever see it.

I've thought of these things - and, oh, are they fun to think about! I think with how my map is set up, being locked out of anything won't be an issue. The winning scenario is the tricky part, indeed.

runebane · July 2013

mrthebozer wrote: »

Also - if/when the players manage to surprise you by somehow surviving after all your effort, then what? You'll want to consider an alternative path to progress beyond that point in the quest, even if no one will ever see it.

Heh. Ran into that once. Chose the wrong door in a foundry and was dropped into a room full of monsters. It was close but I managed to kill them all and then... nothing. Had to do a /killme to get out of the room after I managed to survive. I asked the author about it and he just said I wasn't suppose to live through it.

savagedeacon · July 2013

runis12 wrote: »

The player and his NPC buddies get surrounded by monsters. It's a big, desperate battle in which the player will be able to fend off a lot of these monsters, but will eventually be overrun by super-stacked encounters. The player will die and respawn at the campfire (which was immediately unlocked upon entering the area, yet set somewhere initially inaccessible). He will be greeted by an NPC that "rezzed" him and the quest continues from there.

Is forcing a player death allowed in such a case? Or will it be considering "griefing"? What do you think? Is there an official word out on this kind of thing?

Thanks, guys!

There is foundry quest where you play a secret agent and since you mess with the buttons of a nuclear engine you end to kindom come. It is played for fun and everyone has a laugh. The important thing is not if the player will die or not but how. Make sure it will be a moving event that the player will remember.Not just "he was jumped by half the chinese army", something like the end of the movie "Butch Cassidy" for example.

runis12 · July 2013

savagedeacon wrote: »

There is foundry quest where you play a secret agent and since you mess with the buttons of a nuclear engine you end to kindom come. It is played for fun and everyone has a laugh. The important thing is not if the player will die or not but how. Make sure it will be a moving event that the player will remember.Not just "he was jumped by half the chinese army", something like the end of the movie "Butch Cassidy" for example.

Agreeeed. I'll need to check these quests out. I probably made it sound lame when I was trying to explain it out. Was trying not to muddle what I was asking with giving plot details away.

Player death part of the objective - allowed?

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