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Questions on the "Nerf" to Rogues
munkey81
Member Posts: 1,322 Arc User
Hey guys i finally started lvling my rogue the other day, currently sitting at lvl 55. I'm of course not 60, and new to rogue by only a fiew days, but reading the nerfs to rogue. They dont really seem that bad to me thus far.
I dont use a stealth build currently, nor did I plan to. Sorry for the perma-stealth guys, but that build was always HAMSTER imo anyway(crushed that build with my cw).
I dont use an exec build, I'm using the middle tier(scoundrel i think), and doing (what I feel), is ridiculous damage. My biggest crit so far with LB/LA is just shy over 19k in pvp. Normal LB's in, and out of stealth are generally 5-9k. I use impact shot and that things always good for around 5-6k. The stun I use also(shocking execution?), and that as well is good for 5-6k+ generally.
I guess what I'm getting at. Other then the Lurkers Assault total nerf which I agree is HAMSTER, what is so bad about these nerfs?
4 less daggers...Ok, not so bad
Duelists Fury I guess is my main question. As I'm not 60 and havent used it on boss's. My understanding of it is not as good as you guys. It stacked up to 10 bleeds, and could crit. You keep using it, it refreshes the bleeds. OR, does it currently keep rising past 10 stacks?
I dont quite understand what the nerf to it does. It recalculates the damage, and refreshes the stacks. What I get out of that, is once it reaches 10 stacks, it will bleed for a certain duration/dmg and get to a "peak' of dmg so to speak. Then if you continue using, it resets the damage back to base value, whatever that may be(low dmg starting), and refreshes the stacks.
Am I understanding this correctly? If not I would love for you guys to explain. Ive got alot to learn about rogue'ing, but I dont see this as being a "class killing nerf".
Thx in advance!
I dont use a stealth build currently, nor did I plan to. Sorry for the perma-stealth guys, but that build was always HAMSTER imo anyway(crushed that build with my cw).
I dont use an exec build, I'm using the middle tier(scoundrel i think), and doing (what I feel), is ridiculous damage. My biggest crit so far with LB/LA is just shy over 19k in pvp. Normal LB's in, and out of stealth are generally 5-9k. I use impact shot and that things always good for around 5-6k. The stun I use also(shocking execution?), and that as well is good for 5-6k+ generally.
I guess what I'm getting at. Other then the Lurkers Assault total nerf which I agree is HAMSTER, what is so bad about these nerfs?
4 less daggers...Ok, not so bad
Duelists Fury I guess is my main question. As I'm not 60 and havent used it on boss's. My understanding of it is not as good as you guys. It stacked up to 10 bleeds, and could crit. You keep using it, it refreshes the bleeds. OR, does it currently keep rising past 10 stacks?
I dont quite understand what the nerf to it does. It recalculates the damage, and refreshes the stacks. What I get out of that, is once it reaches 10 stacks, it will bleed for a certain duration/dmg and get to a "peak' of dmg so to speak. Then if you continue using, it resets the damage back to base value, whatever that may be(low dmg starting), and refreshes the stacks.
Am I understanding this correctly? If not I would love for you guys to explain. Ive got alot to learn about rogue'ing, but I dont see this as being a "class killing nerf".
Thx in advance!
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currently when you are at 10 stacks, the damage stays as it was with the 10th stack and new stacks just refresh the timer
so it was possible to have your bleed with the extra damage from lurkers and from stealth/combat advantage with a 100% uptime, some even managed it that all bleed ticks were critting
now with the recalculating that isnt possible anymore and flurry loses alot of damage
Thought you were pushing the crit DC DPS agenda? Now you say that your CW is destroying perma-stealth TRs and your rolling a TR yourself... Have you abandoned your DCs are great DPS and wonderful in PvP position?
Thx for the response man. So yah, that seems a large nerf. Which I dont quite understand crypic on that, its a pve skill. Only a fool would use duelists fury in pvp(imo).
Do you believe like alot of people are saying, that because of that one fact GWF's will out damage a good well geared/skilled rogue in single target dps?
Also, on Lurkers Assault. They totally screwed the pooch on that. 15% crit severity? Sooo...I know most geared rogues are around 50%crit, but....thats still a 50/50 chance that you will, or wont crit. So burning a daily for a 50/50 shot for a little more crit sev? Makes no sense to me. I cant imagine anyone using LA anymore, mise well go for execution and atleast do good damage.
No..Still awesome in pvp with my DC.
I have countless videos of my CW embarrassing the silly perma-stealth 1 vs 1. Your welcome to see for yourself
I made the rogue because they are alot of fun.
Always flames with you, go outside and play kiddo, take a break and enjoy the day
small correction:
only fools will get hit by the bleed from flurry inPVP, the one using it is smart since he found out he is against fools
Not flaming just asking for clarification of your current position/opinion on your DC in PvP. I wasn't sure if you were abandoning your cleric in favor of your CW or new TR.
Heh, very true. I've decided to use it a fiew times against groups that dont seem to realize they have a dodge button.
I've also heard of some rogues casting it twice, then jumping down on top of someone/hitting stealth, and hitting the enemy with the bleed in stealth. Not sure if its true or not. But the chances for that perfect moment seems like a far and fiew between chance, and not worth getting rid of standard at-wills
I still love my cleric. Still using the same build, and still do very well in pvp. Hes geared up as much as I want him to be though and generally I play my CW more often. Until they introduce some more rewards for clerics in pvp as far as healing, I only play him when a premade needs a DC.
As of right now I play all 3 of them when I log on. But I'll be playing my rogue more often now, will be getting her to 60 today and starting to gear her up.
If your on Mindflayer hit me up!
Alysin Chains TR
X.o.X.o
That's a good explanation of why I think it needed to be fixed.
The first 2 strikes of DF allows you move a little between hits w/o breaking the chain. The general idea is to use the 1st two strikes on your way to your target while taking advantage of the gap between strikes to pull closer to your target and get the 3rd animation of the skill on the target. It can be done it stealth so you wont be seen coming. DF is great for pvp but it is a bit situational, i only use it on GFs, GWFs and DCs that dont like to kite. Tears away their hp really quickly, try it out some more in pvp and you'll see its usefulness.
Yah I agree with ya. I've used it against people who dont dodge, and its disgusting how fast they die. But like you said, its very situational. I havent practiced with it enough in pvp to be good at landing that third bleed tick, atm sticking with what I'm doing as its working quite well. Definately plan on practicing more with it though, thx for the info!
Are they making them regenerate faster? Because I'm always running out in PVE, and now... I guess I'll take the skill off my bar and have some wasted feats, because 8 daggers is enough to kill one minion. Maybe. The last 4 were the highest damage ones, too. Still, not fatal to the class...
The big nerfs that destroy the class are:
(a) Stealth drains when using at-wills. Using at-wills against PvE enemies is the rogue's defense. That's why the rogue can be in melee and not die. Now, um, the rogue can die. Yay.
(b) Lurker's Assault is made utterly useless. It used to be the best daily, by far, because all the other rogue dailies sucked, and now it's not worth using at all. So we have to use one of other dailies. That all suck.
60% damage sounds strong, but DCs get a daily that's 30% damage for the entire team *and* 30% damage resistance *and* a bunch of healing. So it wasn't out of line for a daily buff skill.
15% crit severity is just ... what? No, really, WHAT? Why didn't you just delete the power? Are you sure you didn't mean 150% crit severity? Was there a decimal point misplaced?
I'm kind of wondering if it'll even be possible to solo with a rogue after this nerf -- it was already the most potion-hungry class I've played.
Yes it is still easily done. Just get on the test shard and try it out. We are still potion hungry for sure. Healing companion, life steal, and a supply of pots and there is more than enough available for soloing your avg quest material ... I don have a lower level do I can't say how it will effect us vs boss mobs like rhinehound and whatnot.
Lol you guys are funny thinking your the only class chewing down pots lol. Poor rogues. Lrn to dodge.
It is quite possible. I've been over on test. It works quite well. However, this is again from the perspective of a level 60 Rogue, so I can't comment on how it would be leveling up solo with the changes.
Whether you use stealth or not, it increases your dps, having less time in stealth = less overall damage, it also makes many of the "increase x by x % during stealth" feats very ineffective.
From the testing people did on the test shard, the at wills seemed to have gained an 8% increase in damage without any feats which , to an extent, compensates for the lost critical severity and combat advantage gained in stealth.
Thus, the rogue overall dungeon damage was nerfed slightly but took a massive heaping pile of poo on their pve bossing potential.
That being said, dungeons shouldn't be optimal with only a rogue on the boss and everyone on adds, but with as many adds as we get... a 5 man party isn't very optimal otherwise.... thus rogues are wanted for their bossing ability. My main concern is how close this nerf takes rogues to the single target dps of the other classes that have other roles/utilities that could potentially crush the current role of the rogue in a party (aka the reason to have one with you).
If by fixed you mean lowering the skill cap between a really good rogue and a button smashing mouth breather... Managing and maintaining a really good bleed on a boss in pve is not something a lot of rogues were very good at, the few who could pull it off while avoiding getting hit and keep it maintained really shined. Now it will be just smash buttons and try not to get hit.
Cryptic you heard the man we do not want to have to use skill to excel with any class please make button smashing regardless of what button it is a viable tactic for doing dps.