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Forums > Home› Class Forums› The Thieves' Den

Armor Penetration VS Power in regards to PVP

sturmwaffel2sturmwaffel2 Banned Users, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 219 Bounty Hunter
edited July 2013 in The Thieves' Den
I am working on a new PVP build and gear set and I am wondering about the pro's and con's of both. Please, voice your opinions!
Post edited by sturmwaffel2 on

Comments

  • llclickllllclickll Banned Users Posts: 149 Bounty Hunter
    edited July 2013
    PvP is much different than PvE because geared out Sent. GWFs, GFs, and DCs will have over 40%-50% Damage Reduction in PvP. Without Armor Pen, you won't be scratching these geared players. Even geared TRs and CWs have about 23-26% DR, so I suggest having at least 2,000+ ArP if you want to damage geared out players in PvP. Power is good, but not nearly as important as ArP or Crit. Only stack Power after every other stats is where it should be.
  • fimcontefimconte Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    Power is so bad, I trade it for HP.
    Fans Glory to the Gladiators,
    Gods Glory to the Heroes.

    TR:Anirul Corrino@Fimconte
    GF:Irulan Corrino@Fimconte
  • mercurial257mercurial257 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    Currently have 3000 ArP which is roughly 26.1 resistance taken away. At this lvl is basically where there is no point to socket more. You usually want to Aim for 3k Attack power with 50% crit chance, and then go all out in power. I would have more pwr (sittin at 2k), but i cant afford the enchants...lmao.
  • oregonizeoregonize Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    mercurial257 wrote: »
    Currently have 3000 ArP which is roughly 26.1 resistance taken away. At this lvl is basically where there is no point to socket more. You usually want to Aim for 3k Attack power with 50% crit chance, and then go all out in power. I would have more pwr (sittin at 2k), but i cant afford the enchants...lmao.

    So the hard cap on ArmPen isn't ~24%? Anyone know? Also, is the difference between 48% and 50% crit worth worrying about?
  • creolegamercreolegamer Member Posts: 100 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    oregonize wrote: »
    So the hard cap on ArmPen isn't ~24%? Anyone know? Also, is the difference between 48% and 50% crit worth worrying about?

    ArmPen does not have diminishing returns at around 24%, people only recommend that value because at that point, you have enough reduction to negate every mobs'(bosses included) resistance and do full damage on them. In pvp, there is no need to follow this cap as your targets can have really high damage mitigation as someone already mentioned (40-50%). I think the diminishing returns for stacking armpen comes in at around 3k (i could be mistaken). I personally wont stack more than 3k crit in my char as 2% seems hardly noticeable to me. High dex mostly takes care of that
  • fimcontefimconte Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    Crit is worth stacking to 3-3.5k+, but it depends on how powerful Vorpal one has.

    And Burst damage > Sustained in PVP, so that's another reason to stack crit over Power, even when crit rating is hitting the DR wall.
    Fans Glory to the Gladiators,
    Gods Glory to the Heroes.

    TR:Anirul Corrino@Fimconte
    GF:Irulan Corrino@Fimconte
  • kanoyamakanoyama Member Posts: 3 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    What's the relation between the type of vorpal and critical stat? In addition of critical chance.
    Thanks.
  • fimcontefimconte Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    kanoyama wrote: »
    What's the relation between the type of vorpal and critical stat? In addition of critical chance.
    Thanks.
    Vorpal = + 12/25/38/50 Crit Severity

    The more powerful Vorpal, the more valuable Crit Rating becomes, because of the added Crit Severity.
    Fans Glory to the Gladiators,
    Gods Glory to the Heroes.

    TR:Anirul Corrino@Fimconte
    GF:Irulan Corrino@Fimconte
  • kanoyamakanoyama Member Posts: 3 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    Got it, but with the DR Crit Rating does that make sense to stack it for hundred points to get less than 1% crit chance gain ? Wouldn't it more valuable to stack those points into Power. I've got around 3k crit rating with PV, 3k power and 2k5 in Armor Pen for PVP. Would I get some gain stacking more CR rather than Power ? I'm around 47% crit chance atm.
  • blahblahseanblahblahsean Member Posts: 94
    edited July 2013
    Even on targets with extremely high armor (i.e., players stacking defense/GFs with ~30% or higher DR), power becomes better than ArP at around 3300 ArP because of the diminishing returns on ArP. So you would never want to go over 3300 ArP under any circumstance. However, since 2 of the 5 classes will never have damage reduction over around ~21%, for calculation purposes (where you're looking at average damage done if you were to fight all 5 classes equally), ArP should be devalued by 40% (2/5) once you're over 21% ArP. So the breakeven point in this case where power becomes better than ArP is at around 2600 ArP.

    So, therefore, assuming you're using greater vorpal and an executioner build:

    2535 ArP > 3600 crit rating > power

    So you'd want to aim for 2535 ArP then 3600 crit rating, and only once you have both of these stats at these values is power worth more than either of them. This would be your goal to maximize average DPS in both PvP and PvE (coincidentally the ArP value that's best for PvP is also the hard-cap in PvE too).

    There is an alternative gearing method that's effective for PvP where Lashing Blade (which has 100% crit chance which makes crit rating significantly less valuable) or Path of Blades (can never crit) is your main focus:

    2535 ArP > Power >> Recovery

    The goal here is to maximize Lashing Blade/PoB damage by first getting ArP to ~24% and then stacking power as high as possible and taking some recovery where you can without sacrificing either ArP or power. Recovery is useful so you can restealth sooner (by having a shorter cooldown on shadow strike) and then lashing blade (from stealth with 100% crit chance) or PoB more often.

    You could also take a more hybrid approach which balances lashing blade burst and sustained DPS by aiming for 2535 ArP > ~2500 crit > power. You'll do slightly less sustained dps but marginally more lashing blade/PoB burst.

    One thing to note though, in all gearing circumstances ArP up to ~24% is always better than power. So to answer your question precisely, you'd always want to aim for 2535 ArP before stacking power.
  • blahblahseanblahblahsean Member Posts: 94
    edited July 2013
    kanoyama wrote: »
    What's the relation between the type of vorpal and critical stat? In addition of critical chance.
    Thanks.

    Assuming you're executioner, these are the breakeven points where power starts to become better than critical strike rating for sustained DPS:

    Lesser: 3000
    Regular: 3300
    Greater: 3600
    Perfect: 3700

    So with a perfect vorpal you'd need to have 3700 crit rating before power starts to become better point for point.
  • kanoyamakanoyama Member Posts: 3 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    Thanks for those infos. Need to get some more crit rating for the pvp.
  • thesakarithesakari Member Posts: 108 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    Here's some new info on crit rating: Reroll to GF or GWF. No sense in using a TR anymore with the new patch coming. You'll be useless in PVE & PVP.
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