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buff the GWF!
wondras
Member Posts: 9 Arc User
Ok, now when I got your attention - honestly, I dont think GWF needs any "buffs" instead
GWF needs unique role
Yes, he is AoEr, but everyone can do AoE damage.
GWF got now identity crisis, he can do many roles yet he is not good enought in any of them to fill in place of dedicated class. You can outdps rogue, still party chooses rogue because they are generally better, you can tank and still, party chooses guardian because its hard to tank badly with GF while its extremly easy to be lame as GWF tank.
Finding groups
Lets have for example a CN group, everyone want CN equip right now. So, lets start:
First of all we need a healer, who can do this? Invite cleric! good, we got heal.
Second we need some kind of CC, who got best CC? Invite CW!
Do we need a tank? Who is the best tank? Lets invite GF!
We needs tons of DPS, who can pull that off? Rogue, invite rogue!
...now , there is one place left. Who do we invite? Does not matter. We got all roles, why anyone would invite GWF, if CW tops him in CC, TR in damage, GF in protection, DC in heal?(common knowledge)
Meh, if GWF got good gear he might go with us, but we dont really need him in particular.
...and that is wrong, just WRONG.
GWF needs unique role
Yes, he is AoEr, but everyone can do AoE damage.
GWF got now identity crisis, he can do many roles yet he is not good enought in any of them to fill in place of dedicated class. You can outdps rogue, still party chooses rogue because they are generally better, you can tank and still, party chooses guardian because its hard to tank badly with GF while its extremly easy to be lame as GWF tank.
Finding groups
Lets have for example a CN group, everyone want CN equip right now. So, lets start:
First of all we need a healer, who can do this? Invite cleric! good, we got heal.
Second we need some kind of CC, who got best CC? Invite CW!
Do we need a tank? Who is the best tank? Lets invite GF!
We needs tons of DPS, who can pull that off? Rogue, invite rogue!
...now , there is one place left. Who do we invite? Does not matter. We got all roles, why anyone would invite GWF, if CW tops him in CC, TR in damage, GF in protection, DC in heal?(common knowledge)
Meh, if GWF got good gear he might go with us, but we dont really need him in particular.
...and that is wrong, just WRONG.
Post edited by Unknown User on
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Comments
Solutions?
there could be many solutions, i m sure you will find even better.
so there are possible fixes I could think of:
1) AoE tank.
take away any AoE taunts from GF and give them to GWF. GF stays best single target tank while he wont be able to tank tons of adds.
2) off-CC
triple range of Come and Get It make it Prone targets, double range of Not So Fast and give it feast which causes root.
3) debuffer
take away any encounters from other classes that lowers target mitigation and give GWF serious one. Or simply damage output debuffing and make it essecial for group to survive top dungeons.
4) party buffing
give his shouts interesting effects to allies. those might be one of: critital severity buff , % damage increase, skill execution time deincrease, AoE small version of determination, loot chance buff(which sound rather like rogues stuff, but if it gives gwf role?), lower cooling down encounters by flat value, or action points recharge.
there can be many ways how to fix GWF. I presonally think GWF is already decent class, it is possible outdamage TRs 1k GS higher most of the time, I can take role of tank if our GF is newbie. Sadly,
GWF is the only class which got no exclusive role in party and that made him frown on by party leaders.
GWFs wants party too!
Noticed what neverwinter differ from other games in warrior archeotype?
Stances
It is probably one of few things that differ, give GWF stances - you gave them role!
example:
1) DPS stance (point: get closer to rogue)
+5% crit chance
+15% critical severnity
-30% defence
2) Tank stance (point" get closer to GF)
+15% damage mitigation
+40% threat
+ threat spreads to nearby targets
-10% damage
3) CC stance or balanced stance (point" if you dont want to loose damage or surviablitiy)
+at-wills slows target for 2 seconds
+increased Prone, stun and slow effect by 1,5 seconds
+10% chance to ignore enemy CC
simple and effective.
You might argue that we already have passive effect slots. Yes, we do but a) everyone do, so not unique b) it does not alter your role by negative effects. So lets remove one passive slot and change it for stance slot.
We should have something like.. +5% more dmg, or 10% more Power Passive, or +5-10% Crit Serv to match with the TR % Crit boost.
I know other classes who don't have a passive party buff should get that as well. GF +5% Max HP. (not sure if a GF has 1 or not)
since this is a GWF/GF Forum area, I'm only mentioning those 2 classes
Maybe change some skill and call it:
Way of the Defender - 5% defense
Way of the Berserker - 5% to crit
Way of the Scapper - 5% to damage
Nice idea. Thought perhaps these names for the stances might sound even more appropriate:
Way of the Protector - 5% defense
Way of the Berserker - 5% to crit
Way of the Warrior - 5% to damage
Awesome idea, actually.
GWF has a unique role, they uniquely excel as offtanks/aoe damage dealers. The problem is that a lot of groups find ways of avoiding the adds (exploit, cliff, moving boss, CW control effects) that GWFs are so good at dealing with.
(.-.)
xD
But honestly, devs should just boost the aggro of GWFs by 40% and see how it goes.
NOT to Crit, but Crit Severity, since TR already gives us +% of Crit.
I thought of these names..
Student of Enraged +5% Power & +5% Dmg
Student of the Blade +10% Crit Sev
Like a Rock +5% Def and Deflect
although I'm not sure if TRs and CWs have different outputs for the team passive. So it would have to be just 1 and I figured either Sword or Enraged.
come get me should have increased radius and apply taunt, daring shout should have its cooldown reduced and increased threat (alot), battle fury needs to be reworked. Aoe attacks need to be boosted a bit. Cresendo needs to have its channelling shortened.
We should get feats that give auras boost party member damage, defense or speed depending on paragon by a %.
and also the featured satirical comedic adventure "A Call for Heroes".
Agree on some of these. SS is fine now. I used to make fun of it, quite a bit, but it's fine. Just get better gear man. Save up, work hard, you'll see results. I use it primarily in PvE on bosses, except SP, and in PvP. Otherwise I combine WMS with WS.
No , it goes more like -- k we have a good TR , get 2 CWs + 1 DC and let's go . Noone needs a 5th person in the CN runs . 4 people = more loot for everyone .
You still didnt conviced me thats a role -
a) everybody got AoE, CW, DC, GF...everyone (maybe excpet rogue)
b) even if it was a role, there is currently NO bosses who would require such role, while TRs and CW tend to be essecial in some fights
Exactly - even with other tactics, the GWF is class with worst odds to be needed or invited.
But besides dmg, it has enough cc? No. Wizard have good dmg and CC. Ofc GWF are more tanky, so they should start the fight or go togheter the GF. GF got a charge that can have easy 6 sec CD, but GWF can run and jump a lot. During dungeon i found that GWF is better as interceptor, while GF tank boss and give help for extra adds, because got good AoE CC.
I have full rank 8s on gear and stone (rank 7 ultility)
You should see what a rogue does with the gear i have. Though i suppose SS is fine when im teamed up with no/low enchanted rogues
and also the featured satirical comedic adventure "A Call for Heroes".
GWF has arguably the BEST debuff in the game, so He does in fact increase dmg to the team.
That is not really a fair comparison knowing that you run a Sentinel spec :P
Regarding A: Everyone has some AoE. I think the only change the GWF needs is that all AoEs hit all targets in their respective arcs. GWF should be an AoE striker in my opinion. As it stands there is too much hybridisation within the GF, GWF and CW Paragon feat trees. GF is a tank (not a dpser), CW is a controller / CCer (not a dpser), GWF is an AoE striker (not a tank). It's the whole point of having a Paragon Path isn't it (ie. Swordmaster for GWF, not the feats)? Each Paragon Path should represent a specialisation in ONE role, not the feats (which don't do it well anyway).
Ideally (to me anyway), the GF and GWF need to be rolled into one class simply called Fighter. Want to tank? Choose the Iron Vanguard Paragon Path. Want to mow down hordes? Choose the Sword Master Paragon Path. The whole idea of having multiple Paragon feat paths off of a Paragon Path (Paragon Paragon Path???) is stupid in my opinion.
Regarding B: This is the main issue as I see it. The class itself is definitely a viable team member now - the problem is dungeon design and boss mechanics. Why fight mobs when you can drag a boss out of his room and stop adds spawning at all? Why fight mobs when you can blow them off a cliff and effectively one-shot them?
Both problems are easily fixed. For bosses, simply prevent teams pulling bosses out of their rooms. For knock-offs, either reduce the number of knock-off points or make it so that utilising knock-off points involves pulling a lot of mobs at once, greatly increasing the chance of a wipe (ie. adequate risk for the reward). There should be more than one way to do a dungeon. The hard part is making sure one way isn't significantly faster or more farmable than the others because the min-maxers out there will figure it out. If the history of MMOs continuously shows one thing more than anything else it's that developers drastically underestimate the ability of their player populations.
If anything, developers need to start designing dungeons / encounters etc. with a more combative mindset like "how are our customers going to screw-up (trivialise / exploit / outsmart... whatever...) months of work within one week of it being released"? Treat us like the enemy behind closed doors. Aim to give the players a good thrashing and the resulting content will probably satisfy the player-base a lot longer than if you try to play nice.
Not in common awareness. 45% defence debuff is good but not gamechanging contrary to singularity
For sure, archer will replace rogue in ranged fights and warlock will have to dispell some buff from boss.
...btw you know how helped for example underplayed and not-wanted SM in aion? They gave him essencial role in one of endgame dungeons. No matter which role is it - GWF needs it right now.
Rogues are supposed to have serious damage man, that's kind of what they were in original D & D with their backstab abilities and such. Learn how to avoid them, learn how to milk what you have. I'd agree some sort of party buff would be awesome, but I'm doing just fine at currently 11.4 GS with greater plague.