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The Silence is Deafening
torrifico
Member Posts: 9 Arc User
Since the release of the recent class balance changes the devoted cleric forums have been in uproar. Players who have written the stickied class guides have posted about the problems facing the class after the changes, and more importantly after having tested the changes. These are the same people who have been actively involved in the community and can be relied on for mostly good intel.
Whether or not the changes are warranted, what ios concerning is the complete lack of a response from Cryptic regarding this situation. The changes were announced on Wednesday and since then this forum has had one singular topic (i.e. the AS change) with many, many concerns being raised about the impact in both pve and pvp.
And yet no-one from Cryptic has commented on the uproar in almost 5 days.
I believe we can take it for granted that the forums are voraciously read during the beta phase so this is not a case of Cryptic not reading the concerns. So why have they not responded?
What gets me is the lack of professionalism being shown by Cryptic.
1. Open Beta has not been running for a huge amount of time and there have been crippling bugs and exploits, and yet they are going like in less than 2 weeks
2. This list of changes are supposed to address the problems with the game as it is now so this has to go live at or before the game itself is live. This list so huge there is no way it can be properly tested in time.
3. Many of the fixes in the notes smack of band-aid treatment rather than a proper solution, and some of those band-aids seem second-hand ...
4. No one has stepped into the DC forums to simply say, "We are aware of your concerns and we will be responding to them shortly." How hard was that?
In my experience when a company does not respond to a complaint it means one of 3 things:
1. The simply don't care.
2. They are up to their ears putting out internal fires and anything they say could change rapidly from moment to moment.
3. The company representatives have been muffled by upper management and literally cannot say anything.
I am guessing that what is happened is that the project is way behind schedule and the investors/upper management have come in and read the riot act that the game had better be out by 20 June or heads will roll. This explains some of the shockingly poor coding in the game (which in itself could be part of the reason they are behind schedule), the very patchy fixes and the unrealistic testing period.
Cryptic, shame on you
Whether or not the changes are warranted, what ios concerning is the complete lack of a response from Cryptic regarding this situation. The changes were announced on Wednesday and since then this forum has had one singular topic (i.e. the AS change) with many, many concerns being raised about the impact in both pve and pvp.
And yet no-one from Cryptic has commented on the uproar in almost 5 days.
I believe we can take it for granted that the forums are voraciously read during the beta phase so this is not a case of Cryptic not reading the concerns. So why have they not responded?
What gets me is the lack of professionalism being shown by Cryptic.
1. Open Beta has not been running for a huge amount of time and there have been crippling bugs and exploits, and yet they are going like in less than 2 weeks
2. This list of changes are supposed to address the problems with the game as it is now so this has to go live at or before the game itself is live. This list so huge there is no way it can be properly tested in time.
3. Many of the fixes in the notes smack of band-aid treatment rather than a proper solution, and some of those band-aids seem second-hand ...
4. No one has stepped into the DC forums to simply say, "We are aware of your concerns and we will be responding to them shortly." How hard was that?
In my experience when a company does not respond to a complaint it means one of 3 things:
1. The simply don't care.
2. They are up to their ears putting out internal fires and anything they say could change rapidly from moment to moment.
3. The company representatives have been muffled by upper management and literally cannot say anything.
I am guessing that what is happened is that the project is way behind schedule and the investors/upper management have come in and read the riot act that the game had better be out by 20 June or heads will roll. This explains some of the shockingly poor coding in the game (which in itself could be part of the reason they are behind schedule), the very patchy fixes and the unrealistic testing period.
Cryptic, shame on you
Post edited by torrifico on
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As galling as it is, until they have something definite to say the best response is no response. Historically, bland answers only cause further rage and if the community managers are not in a position to give useful info out, it often just makes the playerbase more angry. If the public test server shows that class changes are too strong in any direction the devs will tweak it. Thats the point of test servers. By all means, give robust feedback.
I've had my share of feeling butthurt at MMO companies down the years (most recently I gave ArenaNet a hard time). I'm just not feeling it here. I think Astral Shield is way too strong and no class should be defined by one single ability. However, I'm glad that rebalancing the class around the various other abilities is not my job as there's definately work that needs to be done on the cleric class.
Ancient Shadows: Mature. Sensible. Custard.
Recruitment info at: http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?462591-Ancient-Shadows-Become-a-Lion-Tamer-without-learning-Chartered-Accountancy-first!&highlight=ancient+shadows
Also, IIRC, lots of people over time have complained that the game's too easy, so there's that.
At the same time, I've very happy with the aggro changes on the test forums, but of course most people here fail to mention that.
OMG WTF CRYPTIC U FIXED AGGRO OMG WTF IT WORKS OK NOW NICE WORK
...is not going to happen. A happy community is a quiet community. You'll note, for instance, that basically nobody is complaining about the removal of AS stacking, because everyone (DCs included) agreed that that was hilariously broken.
Sorry, but they DIDNT fixed the aggro. They just mitigated it a little bit.
As a sample, yesterday night I tried the Gauntlgrym PvE (I know I just would not "pug & play" anymore, but it was hard to suffer people shouting at the chat they were waiting at the queue forever as no DCs available).
Final boss:
I did let the GF to engage the adds (about 7 seconds) That would get a lot of aggro, isnt it?
A couple seconds after the dc engaged, CW started nuking. TR and GWF were at at the Boss front and back, doing good damage. (that is 5 seconds getting aggro, isnt it?)
Then I launched a moontouched Hallowed ground (my daily, kept for this moment)
Then AS (Divinity) to the feet of the GF.
Then FF (D too) to the boss.
Next movement was to try to kite more than a half of the adds PLUS the boss. The whole floor around me was in red.
Party wiped (of course)
Now, if you wish, I could shout with You "OMG NICE WORK", but I just dont feel in the mood. I wonder why.
If a happy gaming community is a quiet/inactive one, then I guess the DC forums are the happiest class forums and getting happier every day!
In everything outside boss rooms, I've totally noticed the difference: you can actually stand back from the fray and use skills where necessary, rather than "always where I am currently standing coz OMFG IM GONNA DIE".
Simply put a good GF will have absolutely no trouble keeping adds of you, as long as he/she is already familiar with the dungeon or the mechanics behind particular boss fights. I should know, I've seen good ones in action from behind the screen. He/she may stumble or may be too busy to guard you in particularly hectic fights but it then falls on any combination of you, the CW and the GWF to deal with extra adds. If the other classes are failing at their job, then speak up. Most people will listen to you - no one wants the cleric to leave.
Finally, a cleric's job in this game is to keep people alive through damage mitigation, heals or through the use of deadly force if necessary. It is not our job to keep people fully healed (except perhaps the tank), to replace potions or to cure stupidity. We do have ways of helping other people deal with blunders (our dailies). We get direct heals at higher levels simply because by then they are sorely needed - at lower levels our only compulsory healing is Sunburst + Astral Seal, + Forgemaster's Flame at mid levels. It is also our job to tell people what is expected of them or how our heals work, side effect of being a leader class. If you were looking for a WoW healbot then sorry, even faithful clerics have to attack to build up divinity. You're looking at a class that focuses on keeping the party alive through less obvious means especially at low levels.
BTW, unlike WoW, Neverwinter is a self-proclaimed action game. That means lots and lots of dodging red stuff. If you're not dodging the red stuff you're not playing the game.
If you dont use soothe + feats well then what do you expect? I am sure once i start rocking with nothing but overgeared tanks ill drop it, but still....
Aggro is simply not an issue anymore for me. Of course i do have some experience... if i get aggro i kite the adds back to the AoE dps or to the tank so they pick aggro up.
Cryptic doesn't get involved with the discussions because all they do is derail the conversations taking place. Once an official type posts in a topic it immediately becomes a beacon to everyone regardless if they have anything meaningful to contribute. Then you get the whine class favoritism posts about X class is ignored, Y class is Cryptic's favorite, etc.
I'm HAPPY that Cryptic is keeping a low profile because if they didn't you would see Forum Trolls flocking to any post they replied to like moths to a flame.
I used to have the very exact same perspective as you, so in a sense I agree, but it changed when I started playing Eve Online 2.5 years ago. Being passive regarding customer complaints doesn't work, Eve has proven that by having the most intensive developer-user communications I've seen since a decade of me playing MMOs in general. In the end, their "way" of doing things rewards them (CCPGames) as having one of the most successfull MMO of all time (Eve has never gone through any steep decline of subscription for a straight decade since it was released, first time ever for a full fledged MMORPG), the highest customer retention rate in gaming history, and being one of the most respected game developers today. I honestly don't know why this type of publisher/developer-customer relationship is rare nowadays, considering we're not living in an age of demand based marketing anymore.
Direct heals = pots. Clerics just reduce pot use again fine. I typically do about 3 mil heals and 3 mil damage in a dungeon like pirates. Everyone else is doing around 6mil damage. Seems about right. You can't save someone who never gets out of the Red. Its an action MMO.. people need to learn to move away from damage or take it somewhere and give it to someone else.
1) Learn to play.
2) What mobs? Clerics barely generate aggro. Unless every single CW + GF + GWF in your party are <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> up, there should be very few mobs on you. (most of them should be chasing the CW. Hah)
3) What do you mean by "no one stands in the blue circle"? Are you shooting off your AS in random locations away from your teammates or something?
Overall the fixes have made cleric pretty boring to play. I'm basically just an Ioun Stone of Healing.
All me has to do is hold "A" or D" and simply side strafe & shoot out the same rotation while waiting to shoot off a Bastion of health if someone does miss a dodge roll.
At least there was a bit of a challenge when Clerics had all the aggro.
(.-.)
Meanwhile I'm having a blast on my CW since they are the new tanks.
twitch.tv/redeclipze
^^this.
Pretty much as soon as that major patch hit, I got my CW to 60 and I never looked back since. Precisely because I can play aggressively, it is a true multi-role class, can use any and almost all my spells for different situations, use different gear, all while dodging mobs and making a high visibility contribution to the group. Also, the difference between a good and bad CW is enormous. Sure beats being a generic replaceable boring healbot!
Only time I very rarely drag out my Cleric is for premade T2s or CN when there are highly skilled and geared players and who know me on my CW but cannot find a Cleric. Since DC was my first char, it is still second nature and with low gear dependence, she is low maintenance.
As for those still moaning about aggro as a DC, I can only giggle. This will never be removed - it is the hallmark of all MMOs. Only threat was fixed so that others could take aggro off you more easily, which they most certainly do now. The only way to deal with aggro is to survive it until it is taken off you. So, get your Defense up to 2k and then yawn your way through fights.
About the only two situations in endgame pve where a good DC makes a significant difference is,
1. FH: kiting mobs at endboss. But in pugs this is rare these days since most bring GFs to do that role.
2. Spider: keeping CW and yourself alive at the start of add phases of endboss. But if you had to choose between a good DC and an average CW versus a good CW and an average DC for that fight, you'd chose the latter because good melee can keep themselves alive and doing their roles indefinitely if they do not need to worry excessively about adds.
As for endgame pvp, DC vs CW ... is that a trick question?
This is just the worst kind of hyperbole. Clerics bring much to the table in any setting (sans PVP lol). Maybe its not as apparent as a DPS meter listing or a HPS meter listing but its there all the same. Damage reduction, damage boosting, stat boosting, etc.
unless the party sucks all that boosting isn't needed except for boss fights