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Instigator pve doubt
asgornn
Member Posts: 6 Arc User
Hello everyone, i have a destroyer build which i run dungeon normally, going always between first or second place for damage dealt. But i was considering changing to inspector just to innovate a bit my playstyle..
But i have some doubt about it.
Is there anyone running instigator in pve with success?
And then, some doubts. Since Instigator's last feat, in order to be activated, need to not be attacked by mobs (which isn't rly easy as a melee), how can u build determination? Using roar/daring shout/steadfast determination?
If yes, are those enought tu fill ur determination bar fast enought?
Tell me ur impression and experience. Mostly ur perfomance in t2 dungeon (don't bother about t1).
But i have some doubt about it.
Is there anyone running instigator in pve with success?
And then, some doubts. Since Instigator's last feat, in order to be activated, need to not be attacked by mobs (which isn't rly easy as a melee), how can u build determination? Using roar/daring shout/steadfast determination?
If yes, are those enought tu fill ur determination bar fast enought?
Tell me ur impression and experience. Mostly ur perfomance in t2 dungeon (don't bother about t1).
Post edited by asgornn on
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Instigator can dish out a lot of damage. You just need a GF holding aggro and you hit NSF and melt the pack. Also a CW that hits singularity is your friend when there is no ledge to toss adds off.
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?384041-GWF-Instigator-players-Convince-me-why-it-is-better-than-Destroyer&highlight=instigator
I've been Destroyer for the longest time and always wanted to switch to Instigator, but there is no point.
Boss fight is the most important part of the dungeon. Instigator doesn't function to its full potential during boss fights.
LOL JK. GONNA SINGULAMITY AND KNOCK TEH MOBS NEWAYLOL. MOB GO WHOOSH.
If you find a CW, DC, or GF that doesn't spam their knockback the microsecond it is off cooldown, say something nice to them and tell them they are a good person. Had a GF spamming that junk last night on every single thing he could. Eventually told him to stop knocking mobs around for no reason and he said, and I quote, "damage=no reason? lol" The fact that his damage from that KB spam was not equal to the lost damage from the rogue and myself not able to hit the mobs consistently could not penetrate is brain.
HAhaHhahaahha he had bullrush in pve ?
You picked the wrong class if you want to attack the boss:P
Instigator is the class that is melee aoe and puts up better numbers than Destroyer against large packs of mobs.
You want single target dps then roll a TR
Have you done T2 dungeons? So what are you doing when fighting bosses in dungeons such as karru, SP, spider, FH, or CN?
Mechanics of those fights require mobs to be either CC'd, kited, or thrown off the ledge. Sure you're going to do massive dps during trash runs, but once you get to the boss, you'll be as useless as a cleric companion.
Maybe you need to do more research.
I am smashing the ADDS! Nope not useless....I may not put up single target DPS like a TR but I can still dish out decent damage.
The argument is not whether or not GWFs can outdps a TR in single target damage, it's the DPS difference between Destroyer and Instigator. Instigator can't do the single target damage that Destroyer could due to how the feats are built around it, but Destroyer can do just as much aoe dps as Instigator.
And if you're telling me you are dpsing adds DURING BOSS FIGHTS that were meant to be cc'd, kited, or thrown off, then you, my friend, are playing the class wrong. Maybe you should take your own advice and roll TR.
By all means, please post any data or proof showing that destroyer "cannot outdamage an instigator that is built and run correctly."
All you keep posting is vague generalities. Let's see some data. I am more than happy to be proven wrong.
Spell palgue cavern.. I feel rly rly useless.. All is needed is a gf pulling adds, CWs knock them away, cleric for know reason, and TR killing boss.
Spider. Unless u want to kill adds, but i believe kite them with a GF while 2 rogue murder boss is better.. So again, i feel useless.
FH.. Never did it honestly, but from what i know/see u need to kite all adds (so GF role) and kill boss, which, again, TR do better.
Karrundax.. well, this is a easy fight boss, u can dps it even as a GWF, that's the only dungeon i feel not useless; but again; even if the 5th spot isn't crucial, another TR/CW could have been more usefull.
So in the end looks like GWF is good in 95% of the situation to clear the whole dungeon up to the last boss. Am i wrong?
At this point i believe we should focus on what kill adds faster and better, since this is our main goal.
Then or istigator or destroyer we fall hard on boss fight. That's the point?
All the roles heavily depend on feats/skills and player skill.
@realbo I will make sure and capture a few metrics at the end of some runs tonight and post the outcome.
I'm not going to explain ever point that I want to make. You can just read the thread that I linked from the first page.
In a nut shell, the biggest problem between Destroyer and Instigator is the determination generation. Instigator has no constant source of determination. Destroyer's purpose from Destroyer tree allows you to generate determination from ALL your hits. Now you can also get determination from getting hit, but that completely negates the Instigator tree, because the tree is built around NOT GETTING HIT. Instigator's Vengeance gets cancelled once you get hit.
Another problem with Instigator's Vengeance is that it is not fully maximized during boss fights. There is no point for a GWF to be doing damage to adds during boss fights when they are going to be kited or thrown off. Why waste your time doing damage to them when you can do damage to the boss?
And here is where the problem comes in again. When you are on the boss, the only people that'll be in the IV's range will be the melee dps, the TR and perhaps another GWF. The current meta of the dungeon is that you are required to dodge the red circles and any possible damage. Nobody is going to be taking damage within that 15' range every 10 seconds, and if they do, they would already be dead. That means, you wont get the proc on IV, let alone keep max stacks on it.
As Destroyer spec, I can do everything an Instigator GWF can. I help clear trash and I've always been on top. The closest anybody got to me was a Thurmaturge CW. On top of that, I can do a pretty decent amount of single target dps during boss fights. My guild runs CN on a daily basis and we bring a GWF instead of a TR and we do absolutely fine.
Bring an Instigator to a run, sure you do great during trash, but you have little use during boss. It would be more efficient to bring another CW because they would end up bringing more to the table.
I need to get hit to build determination.
I need to not get hit to keep the capstone. DA FUQUE??
Please tell me where you are seeing something regarding a CD? Because even though you lose stacks if "hit" you are constantly gaining them equally, in a party environment. Also, determination is built by killing foes... not just "getting hit."
"You now gain Determination by dealing damage, and Unstoppable also increases your encounters damage by 10%. Used to be 25% of any damage, but got nerfed." (from the wiki) What kind of determination are you gaining? At what rate? Pre-nerf this skill was awesome.. but now we are at 10%, which takes alot of the shine from "Destroyer's Purpose."
We are talking a possible RUNNING buff of +50% power! 50%! Remember, you gain determination also by killing foes.. trash or boss. At this point is where all the "well power doesn't return value to.. so on and so on." When we are talking +50% of 3-4k that is substantial damage which is constantly restacking as well as being removed.
As a destryer u ara 90% of the time in unstoppable mode, it means a crazy AP gain->slam every fight, and with the right feat slam gives +25% power when activate.
So at this point instigator gain only 25% more power than destroter, and not 50%, cuz as just said with 2k or even better 3k recovery slam will be always up.
What about this then?