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Best starting roll and race? Newbie needs help.
pyron1x
Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 16 Arc User
Hi guys,
I'm new to this game. Started playing the other day. I played a DC and a CW up to level 10 - and then I discovered the forums and realized how wrong the initial information given in the game interface is compared to the actual reality of the math.
As I'm looking to min/max, I would like to ask - what roll should I aim for if I'm going to start a CW?
Is it safe to go 18/13/13 (int/wis/cha) or should I go for less int more wis and/or cha? How important is recovery?
I only ask because for DC's it seems that wisdom (the primary stat) is less useful and cha (2ndary stat) since there is a heavy reliance on recovery for that class.
I've tried looking at the build guides and most state int > cha > wis but no definite numbers are given for the best initial roll. I also don't understand why cha is valued higher than wis when wisdom gives recovery which speeds up cooldowns and allows you to cast more spells hence more damage. Why is this?
As for the race, I am thinking of going with either tiefling or human. I'm actually leaning more towards the tiefling but is there any convincing evidence that going human is or can be superior in terms of min/maxing for the CW?
Thanks!
I'm new to this game. Started playing the other day. I played a DC and a CW up to level 10 - and then I discovered the forums and realized how wrong the initial information given in the game interface is compared to the actual reality of the math.
As I'm looking to min/max, I would like to ask - what roll should I aim for if I'm going to start a CW?
Is it safe to go 18/13/13 (int/wis/cha) or should I go for less int more wis and/or cha? How important is recovery?
I only ask because for DC's it seems that wisdom (the primary stat) is less useful and cha (2ndary stat) since there is a heavy reliance on recovery for that class.
I've tried looking at the build guides and most state int > cha > wis but no definite numbers are given for the best initial roll. I also don't understand why cha is valued higher than wis when wisdom gives recovery which speeds up cooldowns and allows you to cast more spells hence more damage. Why is this?
As for the race, I am thinking of going with either tiefling or human. I'm actually leaning more towards the tiefling but is there any convincing evidence that going human is or can be superior in terms of min/maxing for the CW?
Thanks!
Post edited by pyron1x on
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Lucky for you I'm building a damage and control calculator right now, here's some preliminary numbers:
1 Int = 1.49% damage, 0.61% control
1 Cha = 0.85% damage, 0% control
1 Wis = 0.63% damage, 1.93% control
Of course that assumes that Wisdoms "Control Bonus" increases the duration of all control effects, which nobody has ever proved.
I get that 1 int provides 1% damage. Do I understand correctly that the 0.49% is coming from RSI?
For wis, why is the control 1.93%?
Just need to understand how you came about these values. Thank you!
1.95% comes from faster Encounters which also gives you faster Dailies, more action point gain which also gives faster Dailies, and the 1% Control Bonus which I think is a 1% bonus to control duration. You're not getting much CC from your At-Wills so the faster Encounter spells and Dailies makes up a much larger portion of your total CC.
I plugged this in google spreadsheet (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Aq4cHZOqD7cRdDdzVnk4bFlnVnBLUVVVb2xZWGtiVHc - columns M to O - please ignore the other columns for the other classes) along with the array of initial starting values and it looks like the combination of 18/13/13 (int/wis/cha) maximizes for damage but has moderately low control "score" (as expected).
Of course it's incorrect and makes no sense to compare the scores gotten from damage and control numbers using the numbers you gave above with each other, but the most "balanced" starting stats seem to be 16/16/12 (i/w/c) followed by 16/15/13 (i/w/c).
Based on the model so far, however, it seems like wis is contributing more per stat point when compared to cha (which is counter to the current advice on build guides at the moment). Has the numbers been adjusted to the possibile feat synergies with crit or is this purely how it looks like out of the gate?
Also, and I do know this is WHOLLY dependent on play style and final build, is there a way to approximate effectivity (in a theoretically ideal setup) based on the final scores for control and damage? E.g. damage contributes x% while control contributes (100-x)%. In column O of the spreadsheet, you can see that I just averaged the the control and damage scores up (which implies a 50-50 mix) but I'm pretty sure that 50-50 isn't the correct mix.
1. Do not reduce the stat that provides direct "damage bonus" less than 2% (normally 2 points) of its highest possible value (typically 26 on most classes, 24 on others).
2. Maximise the stats that add damage bonuses that you cannot find anywhere else, e.g. from gear. This is typically the stats that provide either Critical Chance (unaffected by Diminishing Returns) and Combat Advantage.
3. Find the race that enables you to put extra points into these.
Using those rules, I made a Tiefling CW with 16/12/16 (INT/WIS/CHA) with +2 INT and +2 CHA bonuses. While levelling, I put full points into CHA and INT. I was almost always top damage or kill scorer in pvp, skirmishes and first or second in damage in dungeons (good rogues caught up by mid levels and these days really active GFs will be up there too).
Once to 60, based on current content and after a lot of costly respecs and testing, I found 17 WIS (minus campfire) was ideal with 3k recovery for perma black hole with minimum number of targets.
So, now I would never play with less than 24 INT and, with current T2 content not less than 17 WIS, rest of the points can go into CHA.
No idea if this is min-max perfection, especially compared to an 18/13/13 Human that also invests into "Learned Spellcaster" Heroic Feat, but that's how I dynamically optimized.
That said, since I have nothing to compare it to (I have only one CW alt), I cannot say anything definitive about min-maxing CW Ability Scores, assuming it could even be done or desired.
Nightmare Wizardry yes, Phantasmal Destruction and Vorpal Enchant no.
That's good advice and can be achieved with a couple of different starting setups. 18/13/13 Teifling can become 26/17/19 (I/W/C) for example. If you're getting perma black hole I supposed that additional bonuses to control are redundant.