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I hate having more than one rogue on my team in PvP

wholyhandgrenadewholyhandgrenade Member Posts: 0 Arc User
edited July 2013 in PvE Discussion
Having more than one rogue on a PvP team typically means the rogues will go into stealth most of the time, will think nothing of running away from large fights and not even trying to help as they run off for nodes and go for massive kill numbers. These rogues typically score quite high and get tons of points but their teammates usually get slaughtered as they find themselves heavily outnumbered as the stealth rogues aren't the ones being targeted and attacked. If the rogues don't stand and fight and aren't reliable even when you are around them, then I typically just leave as the team will have already lost and I don't enjoy being slaughtered all through a match so that the rogues can score high and everyone else anything but (two CW's, two rogues, one cleric... might as well quit without even going in as the CW's and cleric are going to be slaughtered and the team is going to lose but you can bet the rogues will be top scorers). I have been in good PvP teams that contained two rogues, but those rogues stood and fought and covered their team and participated in group fights.
Post edited by wholyhandgrenade on

Comments

  • mctankypantsmctankypants Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    I'm sorry to say that the Rogues you are playing with don't understand their role then. I duo queue with another TR and we do really well together. We go straight for the back line and immediately put the other team on the defensive. Once we've eliminated the CW or DC, we turn and help take down the remainder of the enemy team that was vying for position on the node. You underestimate the power of having someone target the seen target, only to be taken out unexpectedly. The same argument can be said for every class out there. I see plenty of GWF's that turn tail and run when their life is low. My suggestion is find some friends to queue with and you'll have a much more enjoyable time.
  • xhritxhrit Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    The class is not called Brute Rogue, it is called Trickster Rogue. If Trickster Rogues are targeted and attacked they die, really fast. They can not tank hits. Good rogues will go into stealth, blow their encounter powers, dodge around while throwing daggers, then go into stealth again until their encounters and dodges are off cooldown. If they are not stunning something with encounters, dodging, or in stealth they are going to be targeted. And if they are targeted, they die, really fast.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Feast of the Moon | Rising of the Dark | Shadow of the World | Everdark
  • huckasevenhuckaseven Banned Users Posts: 470 Bounty Hunter
    edited July 2013
    so rather then going into stealth you want them to facetank the enemy?
    so they die in 3 hits and youre outnumbered again WITHOUT the invisible buddy?
  • wholyhandgrenadewholyhandgrenade Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    huckaseven wrote: »
    so rather then going into stealth you want them to facetank the enemy?
    so they die in 3 hits and youre outnumbered again WITHOUT the invisible buddy?

    I don't even trust rogues to support attack in 2 v 1 situations or even 3 v 1, if the node is already taken you can normally bank that rogue support has gone to non-existent and they will let you die without a care in the world. I randomly join PvP always, and find premade teams whether I'm on them or against them to be very dull (for me its no more fun to roll over a team than to be rolled over by a team) ... as to rogues being squishy I can assure you that clerics are no better, we get hit and stunned or knocked down and its quite often over for us but even at that I'll be in the front line attacking
  • rishzothrishzoth Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 351 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    wholyhandgrenade wrote: »
    I don't even trust rogues to support attack in 2 v 1 situations or even 3 v 1, if the node is already taken you can normally bank that rogue support has gone to non-existent and they will let you die without a care in the world. I randomly join PvP always, and find premade teams whether I'm on them or against them to be very dull (for me its no more fun to roll over a team than to be rolled over by a team) ... as to rogues being squishy I can assure you that clerics are no better, we get hit and stunned or knocked down and its quite often over for us but even at that I'll be in the front line attacking

    So you would prefer to not have the rogue backcap the enemy's node and instead fight at 2 with you? Maybe while your team's point is getting taken over, you just want the rogues sit around holding hands with you. I can tell you that I move around the map quite a bit as a rogue. In fact, sometimes I will take on the whole group to buy the rest of the team some time to get to nodes or to keep from capping. We are not front line fighters for the most part. We like to ambush people and sneak around.

    I don't know what to tell you about supporting attacks, but most try to pitch in to help. Sometimes we see an opportunity and move away from large fights. Why stand around just to die at a node that is getting overrun, when we could sneak away and help capture another point?

  • borgued3borgued3 Member, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild Users Posts: 150 Bounty Hunter
    edited July 2013
    yep, but clerics can heal themselves and use AS to soak dmg, rogues cant
  • wholyhandgrenadewholyhandgrenade Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    rishzoth wrote: »
    So you would prefer to not have the rogue backcap the enemy's node and instead fight at 2 with you? Maybe while your team's point is getting taken over, you just want the rogues sit around holding hands with you. I can tell you that I move around the map quite a bit as a rogue. In fact, sometimes I will take on the whole group to buy the rest of the team some time to get to nodes or to keep from capping. We are not front line fighters for the most part. We like to ambush people and sneak around.

    I don't know what to tell you about supporting attacks, but most try to pitch in to help. Sometimes we see an opportunity and move away from large fights. Why stand around just to die at a node that is getting overrun, when we could sneak away and help capture another point?

    I'd prefer to hold 2 nodes easily instead of 1 or none. Rogues typically only care about capping for the 300 points and don't care about keeping them for team points even when keeping them would be the easiest thing in the world to do and finishing a 2 or 3 v 1 fight could be done in very short time to assure it.
  • wholyhandgrenadewholyhandgrenade Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    borgued3 wrote: »
    yep, but clerics can heal themselves and use AS to soak dmg, rogues cant

    if you think clerics can effectively heal themselves in PvP you are mad... a cleric vs a non-stealthed rogue 1 v 1 is still going to be a fair fight
  • derpaderpistderpaderpist Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    wholyhandgrenade wrote: »
    Having more than one rogue on a PvP team typically means the rogues will go into stealth most of the time, will think nothing of running away from large fights and not even trying to help as they run off for nodes and go for massive kill numbers. These rogues typically score quite high and get tons of points but their teammates usually get slaughtered as they find themselves heavily outnumbered as the stealth rogues aren't the ones being targeted and attacked. If the rogues don't stand and fight and aren't reliable even when you are around them, then I typically just leave as the team will have already lost and I don't enjoy being slaughtered all through a match so that the rogues can score high and everyone else anything but (two CW's, two rogues, one cleric... might as well quit without even going in as the CW's and cleric are going to be slaughtered and the team is going to lose but you can bet the rogues will be top scorers). I have been in good PvP teams that contained two rogues, but those rogues stood and fought and covered their team and participated in group fights.

    The best rewards in PvP are the blue belts at lvl 60 they have offensive socket . You're granted one random blue item if you have the highest kills / score in the game . It only makes sense that people will go for kills and won't care if they win or lose and ofc they will last hit your targets that you've fought for 2 mins just to get the kill and all what's left for you is an assist :D
    " We live in an age of the cheaply made, disposable, high priced junk. " - theunwarshed
  • utuwerutuwer Member Posts: 393 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    derpaderpist wrote: »
    The best rewards in PvP are the blue belts at lvl 60 they have offensive socket . You're granted one random blue item if you have the highest kills / score in the game . It only makes sense that people will go for kills and won't care if they win or lose and ofc they will last hit your targets that you've fought for 2 mins just to get the kill and all what's left for you is an assist :D

    The top score player is not the one who kills the most, but the one who caps and kills the most for flipping/defending a node (150 pts each kill for defending, 150 pts each kills and 300 pts for flipping), which means he/she has to be close to the node.
    You say 4v5 is impossible? Cool story bro.
  • abombination247abombination247 Member Posts: 1,279 Bounty Hunter
    edited July 2013
    I don't mind rogues.. I just don't like perma stealth I don't want it on my team or face it. I leave in either situation until it is nerfed. It ruins the game play and isn't about countering them just ruins PvP. So hopefully they get no glory and remake there rogues.
  • dravkwndravkwn Member Posts: 88
    edited July 2013
    abombination247 wrote: »
    I don't mind rogues.. I just don't like perma stealth I don't want it on my team or face it. I leave in either situation until it is nerfed. It ruins the game play and isn't about countering them just ruins PvP. So hopefully they get no glory and remake there rogues.
    I don't mind perma stealth rogue builds. Until/unless they give free respects that include rerolling stat changing the mechanic to make perma stealth impossible would be completely biased towards high int builds as I doubt any rogue would bother with a high int build for any other purposes.
  • irk2013irk2013 Member Posts: 241 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    wholyhandgrenade wrote: »
    Having more than one rogue on a PvP team typically means the rogues will go into stealth most of the time, will think nothing of running away from large fights and not even trying to help as they run off for nodes and go for massive kill numbers. These rogues typically score quite high and get tons of points but their teammates usually get slaughtered as they find themselves heavily outnumbered as the stealth rogues aren't the ones being targeted and attacked. If the rogues don't stand and fight and aren't reliable even when you are around them, then I typically just leave as the team will have already lost and I don't enjoy being slaughtered all through a match so that the rogues can score high and everyone else anything but (two CW's, two rogues, one cleric... might as well quit without even going in as the CW's and cleric are going to be slaughtered and the team is going to lose but you can bet the rogues will be top scorers). I have been in good PvP teams that contained two rogues, but those rogues stood and fought and covered their team and participated in group fights.

    I could say the SAME thing about GWF's all I ever see from them is their backside as they run away....
  • ar2k88ar2k88 Member Posts: 20 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    I think you are missunderstanding the trickster role on the battleground.
    Were not supposed to tank anything, or even show ourselves to the enemy, you are supposed to feel outnumbered, but then relieved when the guy your hitting isnt getting healed because the Rogue just took out the healer, or the guy who is gonna kill you gets stabbed in the back before you go down.
    Just because you cant see them doesnt mean they arent there to support you, they just cant take much damage, so they have to wait for a good moment to strike.

    When i play Rogue pvp, i usually stealth past the front lines and heres my priorities:

    1: Take out their healer (so that their front line wont recieve any heals)
    2: Take out their ranged damage dealers (That means wizards, they can control and do lots of damage to our frontline while standing safely in the distance).
    3: Reduce their numbers. (this means quick striking enemies on low health running away, or holding up the frontline. This means less enemies to fight.
    4: If i see that there is no way to win this confrontation, i will stealth past and start capping the node behind them, this means the enemy team has to pull people off one of their nodes to get it back, which evens the odds for my team.
  • cinj216cinj216 Banned Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    xhrit wrote: »
    The class is not called Brute Rogue, it is called Trickster Rogue. If Trickster Rogues are targeted and attacked they die, really fast. They can not tank hits. Good rogues will go into stealth, blow their encounter powers, dodge around while throwing daggers, then go into stealth again until their encounters and dodges are off cooldown. If they are not stunning something with encounters, dodging, or in stealth they are going to be targeted. And if they are targeted, they die, really fast.

    This.

    It's no surprise no one bothered disputing this post since it's hard to reasonably argue against truth and logic.

    I'm going to go out on another limb and make another obvious observation for the least observant among us. If people are dead, they're not attacking your nodes. Whoa! Mindblowing concept, I know.

    /thread
  • wurstboiwurstboi Member Posts: 19 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    With 2 rogues on my team - i win matches most of the time. You probably played vs. a tough team or your teammates rogues totally sucked.
  • arcrivalarcrival Member Posts: 39 Arc User
    edited July 2013
    Worth mentioning if you have two rogues and they are communicating. One can drop a smoke bomb and other can stay stealthed and run a different setup or hell they can coordinate smoke bombs blades or anything that just annoys and disrupts everyone. Also people tend to target so if one rogue is visible running in circles with people chasing to kill other one is ignored to drop in and thin the herd. Side note i have a rogue and the stealth build is nasty but I don't like the play style of it so you can see me when I kill you if that makes you feel better.
  • arshaddoxarshaddox Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 37
    edited July 2013
    borgued3 wrote: »
    yep, but clerics can heal themselves and use AS to soak dmg, rogues cant

    Dont make me laught as doens't compare to a 23 k crit from a tr or that perma stealth
  • griz024griz024 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 138 Bounty Hunter
    edited July 2013
    So what you are saying is you want everyone to charge 2?

    I guess you like playing with bots than as that it all they do.

    Edit: read again felt more was needed than my quip.

    Pvp in this game is domination based- not deathmatch. Frustrating to lose a match b/c your team doesn't realize there are other bases besides 2.

    A tr that goes to back cap is a valued player b/c he is playing the match correctly. I would much rather have those type of players than fools who behave no better than a bot and charge 2 like lemmings going over a cliff.

    Op you are looking at pvp all wrong.
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