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GF list of buffs and mechanic changes that should happen next...
abombination247
Member Posts: 1,279 Bounty Hunter
In any MMO a tank is one of the main classes. You can't complete or do a dungeon without one soaking up damage, taunting enemy's, charging in absorbing blows for your team. Then kiting a massive boss around the room while your Dps nuke him down. If the tank wipes the party wipes. This is the tremendous responsibility of the tank.
In PvP the tank is heavily relied on in all situations where a Flag capture or holding down a base till team mates get there. Knocking off unwelcomed guest and CC and slowing them to a crawl.
Right now the GF in this game has some great qualities it's just not here yet and any MMO needs the role of a tank to be solid for the MMO to be solid. Here is the list of GF buff's that would be great to see I the next patch that is seriously needed.
1. Block meter - This just I feel doesn't function correctly a flat buff I just don't know if it will fix the problem as its a interesting mechanic. Block is put on the gamer and it breaks after hardly any damage. I have gone threw my combat log and know I have taken about 16k on my block meter. What 16k? Not even 1 attack. I almost rather see block do a % of all incoming damage regardless of how large it is. The % is based on other stats like str, recovery etc. I guess we could go for a flat % buff say 30-60% then have Recovery replenish your block meter faster or some feature like that. Say you block 40k damage then it breaks. 1 sec later its replenishing to block 10k dmg and so forth. Right now it just doesn't work that way. Block meter break then you run around for 4-6 secs hoping not to die. Not a very good thing or how a tank should work. I don't have the answers. I just know if needs some serious work as a mainstay of a tank.
2. Health pool - It is just way to low. The tank class should be a good 20-30% above all others they are tanks. Right now GWF's are achieving higher health pools which doesn't make sense. Its great they have a strong off tank and I like that idea as a declaired off tank role. Its just a GF still can't tank anything with his low health pool once his block breaks. I think more mitigation is needed but a good increase in health to Con be nice. Honestly all tanks in T1 should have 35k life and tanks in T2 should be at the 48k area with a stamina stack in end gear.
3. EHP- Effective health pool- Talked about in every game except this one. I don't think that is a good thing. Obviously should be the main thing in building your tank and getting to a desired lvl of mitigation. The health pool increase would help as I mentioned but lets be honest a GF gets melted in PvP or PvE. There is no clear difference. A straight mitigation buff and deflect buff should be added. I would like to see 55%-64% being ideal for a tank to shoot for realistically. Then deflect should be 25-35% Or some skill preventing getting nuked for 100% of your life. This is his main attribute really and if he is holding a base especially in PvP event like GG. If a base has a tank and a cleric better be coming with 3 dps. That's how it should be. He is supposed to be there to take multiple hits from all characters around him. Maybe change fighters recovery so that he takes 50% less damage as well to the healing done. As a oh #$%% button to hold the base or the fight till help gets there.
I could go on with some skill buff and things. As a GF should be a huge pealer for the DC his big role. I would like a intervene to shoot over to my healer to protect him from a rogue. I really like Knee Breaker been messing with it and like the slow on it. I think if its mechanic was changed to more of a 5 yard radius as it can be hard to apply. Also it should not be dodged or immune to. It should hit every time. That would help in peeling GWF and TR's off healers and contributing in control.
Aoe skill is the last thing I will leave you with. This is mainly a PvE problem but a cap on how many targets ? A cap ? Threat was never a issue for any GF its the Aoe cap of 3 targets for fronline surge. Its only 5 targets for enhanced mark. Take away the cap and let them Aoe mobs. If there are 20 monsters enhanced mark hits them all. Have like a diminishing return after say 10 monsters where the damage is divided up so that way its not OP. This is a simple fix. Tanks are Aoe machines and having a cap and not allowing them to grab huge mobs is just broken.
So any other buffs you feel like listing go ahead. Or on thoughts of mechanics that could help them fill there roll be great.
In PvP the tank is heavily relied on in all situations where a Flag capture or holding down a base till team mates get there. Knocking off unwelcomed guest and CC and slowing them to a crawl.
Right now the GF in this game has some great qualities it's just not here yet and any MMO needs the role of a tank to be solid for the MMO to be solid. Here is the list of GF buff's that would be great to see I the next patch that is seriously needed.
1. Block meter - This just I feel doesn't function correctly a flat buff I just don't know if it will fix the problem as its a interesting mechanic. Block is put on the gamer and it breaks after hardly any damage. I have gone threw my combat log and know I have taken about 16k on my block meter. What 16k? Not even 1 attack. I almost rather see block do a % of all incoming damage regardless of how large it is. The % is based on other stats like str, recovery etc. I guess we could go for a flat % buff say 30-60% then have Recovery replenish your block meter faster or some feature like that. Say you block 40k damage then it breaks. 1 sec later its replenishing to block 10k dmg and so forth. Right now it just doesn't work that way. Block meter break then you run around for 4-6 secs hoping not to die. Not a very good thing or how a tank should work. I don't have the answers. I just know if needs some serious work as a mainstay of a tank.
2. Health pool - It is just way to low. The tank class should be a good 20-30% above all others they are tanks. Right now GWF's are achieving higher health pools which doesn't make sense. Its great they have a strong off tank and I like that idea as a declaired off tank role. Its just a GF still can't tank anything with his low health pool once his block breaks. I think more mitigation is needed but a good increase in health to Con be nice. Honestly all tanks in T1 should have 35k life and tanks in T2 should be at the 48k area with a stamina stack in end gear.
3. EHP- Effective health pool- Talked about in every game except this one. I don't think that is a good thing. Obviously should be the main thing in building your tank and getting to a desired lvl of mitigation. The health pool increase would help as I mentioned but lets be honest a GF gets melted in PvP or PvE. There is no clear difference. A straight mitigation buff and deflect buff should be added. I would like to see 55%-64% being ideal for a tank to shoot for realistically. Then deflect should be 25-35% Or some skill preventing getting nuked for 100% of your life. This is his main attribute really and if he is holding a base especially in PvP event like GG. If a base has a tank and a cleric better be coming with 3 dps. That's how it should be. He is supposed to be there to take multiple hits from all characters around him. Maybe change fighters recovery so that he takes 50% less damage as well to the healing done. As a oh #$%% button to hold the base or the fight till help gets there.
I could go on with some skill buff and things. As a GF should be a huge pealer for the DC his big role. I would like a intervene to shoot over to my healer to protect him from a rogue. I really like Knee Breaker been messing with it and like the slow on it. I think if its mechanic was changed to more of a 5 yard radius as it can be hard to apply. Also it should not be dodged or immune to. It should hit every time. That would help in peeling GWF and TR's off healers and contributing in control.
Aoe skill is the last thing I will leave you with. This is mainly a PvE problem but a cap on how many targets ? A cap ? Threat was never a issue for any GF its the Aoe cap of 3 targets for fronline surge. Its only 5 targets for enhanced mark. Take away the cap and let them Aoe mobs. If there are 20 monsters enhanced mark hits them all. Have like a diminishing return after say 10 monsters where the damage is divided up so that way its not OP. This is a simple fix. Tanks are Aoe machines and having a cap and not allowing them to grab huge mobs is just broken.
So any other buffs you feel like listing go ahead. Or on thoughts of mechanics that could help them fill there roll be great.
Post edited by abombination247 on
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Comments
Well I and other GF's strongly disagree with fine. I think they have some great skills and some utility and damage is fine. Its just they won't be complete till the defensive and other things are brought up. You have a opinion though which is fine
No nerfs. This post is to create a better role for the GF and help him with better mechanics and buff the extremely poor tanking he has currently. So lets stick on topic and talk about buff's and changes for the positive to fulfill the GF.
My guardmeter was down instantly and i felt like a ping pong ball between the boss and its adds which where CCing me all the time. The GWF ran around while beeing unstoppable 50+% of the time, i have to turn around and to block each stupid CC effect. All the other classes dodged the attacks easily.
That sucks!
i got something around 30 AC, each GWF is getting the same. If im comparing my defense and the defense of a GWF, each GWF has a better defense (defense = CC immunity, damage reduction, self healing, ...).
PvPing as a GF is funny because its easy to kick n0obs. But skilled TRs and/or CW will kill any(!) GF.
GF needs increased defense and an improved block mechanic. Each stupid player is able to dodge an already finished attack. raising the shield to block a finished attack does not work at all. Nice nice...
Ah but well: There are these tanks which are very defensive. The are useless in PvP and still not needed in PvE because every GWF or even TR is a better tank.
And here is the reason:
In the last few patches I went from having to carefully pull adds, maneuver around them, time my passes by the boss to pickup extra adds, ask for rotating support from the Cleric and Wizard. They've buffed my block meter so much that now tell the wizard to drop the singularity right on the boss so I can tank the adds and the boss at the same time, and I tell the cleric to ignore me altogether and heal the rest of the party.
I was really excited to finally play a tank that included more than standing still in front of the boss intimidating and shield blocking, but apparently that is the character that so many other people want to play that that's how Cryptic is going to make it.
The only change this class needs is a real Tab mechanic, because ours is beyond useless.
Blah blah...
The only immediate changes that need to be made for GF is 1) More responsive blocking and 2) Make our Tab skill more useful
Other than that, everything is fine with GF compared to other classes that truly need a lot of work.
* TWITCH * YOUTUBE * MY GUIDES *
But I came back.
PvP "Tank" or Bunker specs don't exists because the maps are too small and either team can get to a point before it's caped regardless.
Guard - Guard is a reflection of your base HP, you have more than 16k base HP. If you take a 40k hit your guard as current would not usually break and would be reduced by 18% Guard already has a base mitigation bonus against larger attacks (The one's you're supposed to block)
Health Pool/EHP - GWF should have the same HP capacity as a GF as they are both Fighters. Every suggestion you purpose would make GF a PvP nightmare. A much easier fix to damage taking capacity would be to make the Prot and Tact trees viable through mitigation and control bonus.
I do agree that Enforcer's Threat and Frontline have little to no reason for a target cap.
Kneebreaker is just about garbage in PvP at best it forces a TR or CW to use a dodge and does near to nothing against a GWF or GF.
Even if you add an AoE and an inappropriate no immune onto it, the effect is still short duration and at best will have the same effect as a well placed frontline.
Oh and the "Lucky your team helped you out" As I hold off you and 2 others is only testimate to how necessary "tank" is in PvP.
Ohh other classes need work for sure. I just was focusing on the GF. I wanted to bring that inline to where I think he should be for the game. Of course other classes need paragon tree's re skilled and nerf or buffed. I just didn't want to go there in 1 post.
I block a lot bash a bit and send them sprawling when I can still can't work out how useful that tab button is,as for them fighters they are pureley dps so the have to have them bits and pieces,its them pesky backstabbing rogues and them ruddy freezing wizards the can between them perma stun me but again those are there strengths,juat have to know how to beat it.
As for the usual whingers and bleaters for nerfs well after two or ist three months why nerf so soon oh yes so you can puff out them weedy chests and say look how many I killed:cool:
- block should interrupt any other animation and be up quicker
- guarding shield bash should probably add more guard meter. 5% is not enough. Maybe some feat should up it a bit. (i know tide of iron gets 10%, but can't use it on quick hitting bosses and mobs - you will eat some damage - and let's face it - nobody cares about the tank, no heals, no help with adds from dps most of the time)
- iron warrior should have quicker animation - to buff guard meter in an itense fight
Any changes to give GF's more health would make things unbalanced beyond what they already are.
I think your efforts to start a discussion as far as changes is a good one, I just don't think GF's need more health.
Fixing the block issue would be the first step in the right direction.
Well more directed to PvE cause there are not real tanks yet. Block does nothing unless someone can convince me other wise. It block basically no damage compared to what is incoming. I just think my 30k life isn't enough as well it really needs to be 40k+ in t2 rank 7+ gear. I just think the mechanic of how block is going just doesn't work and needs to have different stats affect it more. Don't think a flat buff of 40% more guard meter will fix anything cause I do want it to work correctly in PvP as well but not block everything to the point where its unfair. I don't think with current damage as players gear and get better will matter if a GF has 40k in PvP. I mean players crit for 35k. So I don't think that changes anything really. Just think a GF should have some changes to actually be a GF have utility and tank. We just aren't tanks yet. In either PvP or PvE.
lol. Assumptions are funny. Why wouldn't I be serious about this? As I think of it. What actually determines if you are bad in this game anyway?
Steel and Magic
I dont find the HP pool to be too bad, my build always takes top damage in skirmishes and the temp HP buffs is a life saver if you can avoid stuns and dazes. However, to be a tank you have to give up a lot of DPS. Which makes it harder to kill big bosses in solo games, but OK (not great mind you) tanking and aggroing the Bosses in Skirmishes.
I really wish Cryptic would stop breaking things......
Yes we do. No matter what your GS you get melted in a mob of adds and guard breaks in 2 secs cause its a poor mechanic.
I have noticed this as well and has caused some extra deaths that shouldn't of happened.
As a GF I love that there is no standard MMO "Tanking" in this game and people need to get over it. What there is, is a much better mechanic called "Aggro Management" as a class we do great at that.
What does hurt us and our role in instances is that there is no reason to do either at the moment. I personally would love to see a boost to the survivability and buff specs and actual fight mechanics that require our level of Damage reduction. Then tweaking may need to be applied.
If you disagree that GF's are fine you all need a reality check. They are awesome in pvp and gods in pvp you people amaze me really but whatever.....
10% less damage or some more ap out of block? Ehhh. There isn't a single fight in the game where Conq is a liability and it seems off.
Conq- Best Agro, best damage (best solo and pvp builds)
Prot- 10%-12.5% more damage reduction with lower dps and lower threat
Tact- 5% party damage if you give up an encounter slot and the odd extra daily use
Conq can already daily 1-2 times per trash pull and can Knight's Valor all but the dumbest groups.
edit: How scary are the rumored paragon path updates with mod 1? 2/3 of the existing one have questionable utility as it is...
Are you running without enforced threat?